Rust sickens me :faint: I noticed that my 2003 SUV has pockets of rust on the undercarriage. Since I don't drive it on salty (Canadian) roads and take great care in detailing, this drives me crazy. I did not get it undercoated when I bought it because most advise I got was this is a rip off by dealerships. I have read countless discussions about this topic. :wall Talk about rust converters/inhibiters etc.etc.etc. Krown/Rustcheck. I approached a dealership, they said the only permanent way to get rid of the rust is by "sandblasting". Sanding does not get rid of the pitted rust. Also some cheaper oil/grease sprays can damage rubber seals etc. I want to keep the truck for at least 10 years. What would you guys do?
undercarriage rust
- Thread starter maxter
- Start date
maxter said:
Please don' t go telling us you believe in that electric rust inhibitor devices...
I got my MPV undercoated with polyurethane at 15 mm' s thick. (Should be around 1/2 inches or so)
Not only did it help prevent corrosion but it also muffled all the tire roll noise and alike. The vehicle is much more silent now...
May give you an idea...
Accumulator
Well-known member
If you can get to all the rusted areas you don't need to media blast it. If you can see it, you can usually get to it.
You can clean it, chemically remove the loose rust, use a rust converter on what's left, paint with *an appropriate product* (very important to use the right stuff), and then spray on a black rustproofing (or a rubberized undercoating). I've done it (more than once) and it worked fine.
There are basically two big players in this game: POR-15 and EASTWOOD. I've used both and I've found the Eastwood stuff to be markedly superior (especially when it comes to ease of prep and general user-friendliness). Eastwood's derusting/converter/Rust Encapsulator/Undercoating process works great if you take the time and care to do a remotely thorough job.
Oils/undercoatings don't damage rubber/plastic in my experience. I cleaned some 21-year-old stuff off my RX-7 (prior to redoing it) and it hadn't hurt anything. I had parts of my Jag oil-sprayed nearly 20 years ago and no problems from that either. Note that I use these processes on virtually perfect collector vehicles that I will be keeping indefinitely.
Be careful with media blasting as it can get into inaccessible areas and can also strip areas you might not subsequently paint/undercoat. I like media blasting (and, similarly, tank-dunking) when I'm completely disassembling something (i.e., frame-off jobs) but otherwise I'd use the process described above. If you media blast, you'll still have to deal with the inner surfaces on things like frame rails, which will call for the Eastwood-type approach anyhow. Be sure to mask/plug everything and watch that the media doesn't mar your paint (no way would I go with sandblasting due to the nasty nature of that media; it'll scratch stuff you'd never even think of).
You can clean it, chemically remove the loose rust, use a rust converter on what's left, paint with *an appropriate product* (very important to use the right stuff), and then spray on a black rustproofing (or a rubberized undercoating). I've done it (more than once) and it worked fine.
There are basically two big players in this game: POR-15 and EASTWOOD. I've used both and I've found the Eastwood stuff to be markedly superior (especially when it comes to ease of prep and general user-friendliness). Eastwood's derusting/converter/Rust Encapsulator/Undercoating process works great if you take the time and care to do a remotely thorough job.
Oils/undercoatings don't damage rubber/plastic in my experience. I cleaned some 21-year-old stuff off my RX-7 (prior to redoing it) and it hadn't hurt anything. I had parts of my Jag oil-sprayed nearly 20 years ago and no problems from that either. Note that I use these processes on virtually perfect collector vehicles that I will be keeping indefinitely.
Be careful with media blasting as it can get into inaccessible areas and can also strip areas you might not subsequently paint/undercoat. I like media blasting (and, similarly, tank-dunking) when I'm completely disassembling something (i.e., frame-off jobs) but otherwise I'd use the process described above. If you media blast, you'll still have to deal with the inner surfaces on things like frame rails, which will call for the Eastwood-type approach anyhow. Be sure to mask/plug everything and watch that the media doesn't mar your paint (no way would I go with sandblasting due to the nasty nature of that media; it'll scratch stuff you'd never even think of).
imported_steveo3002
New member
accumulator....have you used por15 or rust encapsulator on a bad weather car?
last summer i removed all my suspension arms and stuff and had them blasted ...they came up great , i then por15'd them as per their instructions ...after very light light winter use(prob 50miles in salt and 500 total winter miles) theres small rust spots showing already
i kinda thought that they would last a long long time
last summer i removed all my suspension arms and stuff and had them blasted ...they came up great , i then por15'd them as per their instructions ...after very light light winter use(prob 50miles in salt and 500 total winter miles) theres small rust spots showing already
i kinda thought that they would last a long long time
Accumulator
Well-known member
steveo3002 said:
Yeah, I've used the POR-15 on stuff that got exposed to the elements and it worked OK for me when it adhered (didn't always do that so great). Yours should'veprotected it longer, dunno what went wrong for you. If I had to take a wild guess I'd say that you should've done another coat of the POR-15 and/or topcoated it. Besides my stuff, I know people who've subjected their PORed stuff to all kinds of salty abuse with no problems.
The stuff I used Rust Encapsulator on hasn't been exposed to the elements and I pretty much coated it with black undercoating anyhow just to be on the safe side. I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the undercoating looks and would recommend it as a topcoat for applications like this.
If I were you I'd go over the parts you can get to with a rust remover and then scuff with maybe 320 grit sandpaper. Apply two more coats of the POR-15 letting the first one dry as long as you can without requiring more scuffing (I forget the rules for that). Then spray it with black undercoating from Eastwood. It won't look *quite* as much like shiny black paint as the POR does, but it'll stay matte-black for a good long time with no rust bleed-through.
imported_steveo3002
New member
well i wiped it over and applied a thick underbody wax that ive had good results with..its dinitrol , i duuno if you have that over there
all i can think is i put it on too thin...as rust had started on a couple of edges of brackets that i did too...thing is i put 3 coats on these areas, by por15s spec that should handle marine conditions!!
i guess if i use por15 again, i will use 3 coats, then overcoat with chassis black, then underbody wax once fitted...if it rusts then , ive done all i can
all i can think is i put it on too thin...as rust had started on a couple of edges of brackets that i did too...thing is i put 3 coats on these areas, by por15s spec that should handle marine conditions!!
i guess if i use por15 again, i will use 3 coats, then overcoat with chassis black, then underbody wax once fitted...if it rusts then , ive done all i can
Accumulator
Well-known member
Sounds like you have a good handle on what you need to do. Next time I'd try the Eastwood stuff, I truly believe it's better than the POR-15.
THANKS GUYS for your suggestions. Since writing, i have further research the problem. Sandblasting not for me. Neither yealy oil spraying. As you recommended. I'm going to look into POR-15 or Eastwood products. Yearly or by-yearly oil sprays I don't think is for me. I don't want the accumulation of oil that will occur over the years plus all the grim & dirt that oil will attract & embed itself. Then in subsequent years your spraying over oil & dirt. Where I can see the rust I will treat it , spot by spot. Again. . .thanks guys for helping me. :goodjob
imported_steveo3002
New member
maxter...if you go for por15, its great but follow the intructions 110%
in some ways i think its best to make localised repairs to rust spots and leave it at that......if you cover the whole under side in goop then ok its keeping alot of salt/damp out , but it also hides rust until its really got bad
accumulator .....ive tried the eastwood RE , its alot softer than por15 but seems to be okay...to be honest i think the best you hope for is to slow rust , i cant see it being stoped by anything
in some ways i think its best to make localised repairs to rust spots and leave it at that......if you cover the whole under side in goop then ok its keeping alot of salt/damp out , but it also hides rust until its really got bad
accumulator .....ive tried the eastwood RE , its alot softer than por15 but seems to be okay...to be honest i think the best you hope for is to slow rust , i cant see it being stoped by anything
Rocket
New member
Three is another POR-15 type item that you might be intersted in looking at. I looked at it along with the Eastwood product. I'm planing on trying one soon. I've used POR-15 in the past and it worked out pretty well but I'm always willing to try other things
http://rustbullet.com/Products/Automotive/Automotive.htm
http://rustbullet.com/Products/Automotive/Automotive.htm
imported_steveo3002
New member
yeah ive tried rust bullet too....seems as good as por15
Accumulator
Well-known member
steveo3002 said:
Yeah, the POR-15 does dry harder. I think of the RE as sorta a primer-sealer that's not too picky about the preceding prep. So far, the big difference between it and the POR is the way the RE simply *sticks*. I and others I know have had the POR-15 not adhere; a body shop I used to patronize, who had used it before, had it come off quite badly when they did a Caprice frame of mine! They assumed their prep was faulty, but they couldn't figure out what they must have done wrong (they'd used the Marine Clean and Metal Ready) so they took it all off and redid it with something else. That sorta scared me off POR-15 even though it never failed *that* badly for me. Thank goodness they discovered the problem before putting the body back on the frame.
The steering parts on my Caprices (that *I* did myself) always held up will with the POR-15, but I was a fanatic about prepping them properly.
I wouldn't use this sort of stuff for an area that really matters, but for undercarriages, especially where you're dealing with thick pieces of roughly finished metal, it works quite well.
Here's a case where it *did* work on an area that mattered and it stayed fixed: I had some rust in the inner crimp-welds of the Jag's trunk lid, inaccessible areas. The sort of area where you simply can't get to all of it, can't even see some of the area in question. I was looking at a new trunklid and I didn't like that idea. I had Stoddard's body shop do it, and they used POR-15 and then also sprayed in the drainage holes with a "creeping" wax-based rustproofer (I forget what it was, but I'd bet it was Wurth's Body Protection). I was not optimistic, but it's over 10 years later and the rust has stayed at bay, not a trace of recurrance.
The Eastwood undercoating dries much more/cleaner than I'd expected. The undercarriage of the RX-7 is IMHO a lot nicer now than it was with the combo of factory and dealer applied undercoatings. This is not the sort of stuff that's gonna be a sticky/gooey mess; it was another nice surprise. I sprayed AutoInt's Rust Inhibitor in the subframe rails and that stuff is *not* as neat and clean, but that's sorta what you want for areas where you'd like it to spread to areas you didn't actually spray.
Hmm..never tried the Rust Bullet.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Murat said:
I somehow glossed over the MPV reference in the about :doh
I bet that *did* improve the noise etc. My MPV is one might cheaply built vehicle
with all sorts of noice/etc. issues. The undercarriage has stayed surprisingly rust free with not undercoating, but then again I clean it at every wash...I've used both POR-15 and Rust Bullet, and I must say, I'm far more impressed with Rust Bullet. Although both products have very specific prep, usage, and storage instructions; I found Rust Bullet easier to use by far. Most notably, Rust Bullet is silver and POR-15 is black. When you're working with rust, it's much easier to see where you've coated with the silver product. I let some rust bullet dry over night in a small jar and it solidified in a plastic-like state. Pretty neat. The RB also acts like a filler-primer when you apply it. It will fill minor imperfections in two coats. I had some pieces that I had sandblasted and POR-15ed on a Michigan car a few years back and the rust came back after 1 winter. I used RB on a friend's Rabbit right on a rusty surface and there's no sign of the rust after a full year. I'm really impressed with RB.
Can't find Eastwood products nor POR 15. I guess you have to order on line. I don't know how others feel about on line purchasing but I'm not comfortable unless I have no choice. Karbelt Speed Shop has Rust Destoyer that they say is the same as POR 15. It's made by Advance Protection Products in USA. Does anyone have experience with this product?
AL-53
Duragloss User
I have a rust project coming up and I did some research..I went to 4 body shops and 2 paint supply stores and asked what they would recommend for a rust encapsulating product...
They all said use picklex and zero rust...the combo is the best out there....as I was told..
Theysay POR-15 is good also but a process that has to be followed to the T or bonding will not be complete or rust conversion will not happen and POR will peel off in time.
The way it was explained to me was spray picklex on area to be converted....then use zero rust to encapsulated it.
http://www.zerorust.com/
http://www.picklex.com/
there is some good info here on rust repairs and body work
http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php
hope this helps
Al
They all said use picklex and zero rust...the combo is the best out there....as I was told..
Theysay POR-15 is good also but a process that has to be followed to the T or bonding will not be complete or rust conversion will not happen and POR will peel off in time.
The way it was explained to me was spray picklex on area to be converted....then use zero rust to encapsulated it.
http://www.zerorust.com/
http://www.picklex.com/
there is some good info here on rust repairs and body work
http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php
hope this helps
Al
Accumulator
Well-known member
maxter said:
I've done business with Eastwood for years, since long before online ordering. Never a problem. There's the LINK to their site and you could always just call them up and order over the phone. They have a nice print catalog and don't mind when people don't want to use the internet.
Oh, and note that both POR-15 and Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator now come in several colors. IIRC the silver ones are the highest in solids and thus presumably the best for seriously nasty applications.