Traditional Washing, the sudsless way

D

DetailZeus

New member
So a friend of mine came to me with a unique problem; apparently some picky neighbor complained to the homeowners association about all the "unsightly foam" from his frequent car washings. Long story short he got a letter telling him to stop making such a mess (but luckily not banned from washing)

His previous products were a mishmash of Chemical Guys, Meguiar`s, and otc stuff. Here was his routine:

1. Snowfoam car with foam cannon (chem guys honeydew I think?)
2. Pressure Rinse
3. Snowfoam car again
4. 2-bucket wash with Meguiar`s wash mitt, grit guards and various shampoos
5. Pressure Rinse
6. Clean wheels with brush, wheel cleaner, and leftover soap
7. Dry paint with detail spray and waffle weave, dry wheels with cheap microfibers

While I don`t agree with the picky neighbor (I told him you should complain that her dirty, swirled car is unsightly lol), I can see how that would make a mess!

I hooked him up with some ONR and Power Clean. He`d heard of rinseless washing before but had never used the products. He also wasn`t about to give up his pressure washer. Here`s the new routine:

1. Wheels FIRST (finally got him a dedicated wheel bucket) Do each wheel individually. Spray well, tire, and rim with diluted power clean. Pressure rinse. Clean wheel with brush using ONR in wheel bucket. Pressure Rinse.
2. Pre-treat rocker panels and bad areas with diluted power clean (This replaced the first snow foam)
3. Pressure rinse entire car, then pull into garage.
4. Pre-treat the section to be washed with ONR out of a spray bottle (This replaced the second snow foam)
5. Wash section with Meguiar`s mitt. We still used the 2bm but I put ONR in both buckets.
6. Dry section using usual detail sprays and waffle weave. Wash rest of the car section by section.
7. Dry wheels spraying ONR to touch up.

Car came out great, and the method is a tad faster too. Most importantly no mess! He was a bit hesitant washing the car with "what seems like water" but got the hang of it quickly. Lack of water spots from washing in the garage was a huge plus. The only part he didn`t like was how onr darkened the mitt to make it look dirty but it cleaned up fine with dawn afterwards (it wasn`t exactly new to begin with). He`ll probably use up the shampoo cleaning wheels but after I think it`ll be ONR going foward.

What do you guys think?
 
Some Foam can last quiet a while before it finally goes away. When the weather is good I usually wash my car, my girlfriends car and whoever else every week. Never once did I get a complaint about it. Usually my neighbors come out while I`m doing it and ask how much I`d charge if I were to wash theirs. Sending a letter is a bit petty in my opinion. Is the foam/water getting on her property? If not then I don`t see the issue. I would just turn down the foam output from the foam cannon so the foam is less dense. This way there will be a lot less foam left on the driveway.

I hate posts like this. Is this women trying to get the "Cleanest neighborhood" award or something? Seems like she is just bored and has nothing else to do.
 
Kinda BS for the neighbor to just run and tattle on him without talking to him first.

I like the wash method. Maybe another PW rinse at the very beginning to knock off the caked-on stuff? Probably not necessary unless he lets it get super dirty between washings.
 
Have your friend just switch to pressure washing followed by a rinseless wash. That`s pretty much all I do anymore. I only do a regular wash if the weather is perfect and I`m bored.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
TheDetailer718 said:
Some Foam can last quiet a while before it finally goes away. When the weather is good I usually wash my car, my girlfriends car and whoever else every week. Never once did I get a complaint about it. Usually my neighbors come out while I`m doing it and ask how much I`d charge if I were to wash theirs. Sending a letter is a bit petty in my opinion. Is the foam/water getting on her property? If not then I don`t see the issue. I would just turn down the foam output from the foam cannon so the foam is less dense. This way there will be a lot less foam left on the driveway.

I hate posts like this. Is this women trying to get the "Cleanest neighborhood" award or something? Seems like she is just bored and has nothing else to do.
Click to expand...

Agreed, whenever I washed my car my neighbors would usually ask if I`d want to do theirs next. I actually think I motivated some people to start hand washing themselves. I don`t know the whole story but it`s one of those neighborhoods with a lot of rules, i.e. your lawn needs to kept neat, you can`t paint your house crazy colors, etc. Still, life is too short to worry about someone washing their car.

Personally, if I was using a foam cannon I wouldn`t use a shampoo for the first foam. I`d want something with more bite, and like you said, less dense that broke down by the time I went to rinse it off. I`d skip the second foam all together.
 
The new technique is very similar to what I would recommend. If I were him, I would argue the accusation with plenty of reasons as to why it is completely pointless, but if he just wants to please the neighbor then he can just keep doing the rinseless approach.
 
Migue said:
The new technique is very similar to what I would recommend. If I were him, I would argue the accusation with plenty of reasons as to why it is completely pointless, but if he just wants to please the neighbor then he can just keep doing the rinseless approach.
Click to expand...

The guy`s a pacifist. I`m sure it`ll get brought up at a homeowners meeting or whatever. Me, I`d probably spend an afternoon foaming her entire property. Still, it was fun introducing him to some new car wash products/techniques.
 
I would personally just use something other than a foam cannon, maybe a pump sprayer or something. I hate people like this, I would probably foam their house but you also couldn`t give me a house with an hoa, I can`t believe how stupid that stuff gets.
 
I do like the thought process.


I do agree with some of the above though. It has been my finding that a foam cannon really doesn`t do any more or better cleaning then simply a pressure washer alone. So skip the snow foam and just use the PW. Secondly all rinseless washes can still be used in a 2BM just like a regular soap. So if he doesn`t like how ONR "stains" like it don`t, then switch to UWWP, Meg`s D115, DG rinseless Aquawax, etc... And I know the the guys on AG are testing out some new beta rinseless that`s not supose to let anything behind if that`s what your after.
 
The 1Z Perls is low foaming in a wash bucket, but it foams well in a pressure washer foam lance. I can`t remember if the foam dissipated quickly or not, but it probably did. There was some discussion about Rupes soap foaming or not also (still haven`t used it).

Foaming the car twice was probably overkill anyway. Rinse, foam, rinse.
 
Angel Polish Glissante!! Has water softeners, next to no bubbles, incredible car wash!!! Especially if it`s a metallic paint.
 
TroyScherer said:
I do like the thought process.


I do agree with some of the above though. It has been my finding that a foam cannon really doesn`t do any more or better cleaning then simply a pressure washer alone. So skip the snow foam and just use the PW. Secondly all rinseless washes can still be used in a 2BM just like a regular soap. So if he doesn`t like how ONR "stains" like it don`t, then switch to UWWP, Meg`s D115, DG rinseless Aquawax, etc... And I know the the guys on AG are testing out some new beta rinseless that`s not supose to let anything behind if that`s what your after.
Click to expand...

But aren`t rinseless washes supposed to be inherently "sticky"? I thought the (cationic?) surfactants bound to everything, the paint, the bucket, the dirt, your wash media. Whereas (anionic?) shampoos basically emulsify oils but leave the dirt suspended in solution after your wash mitt breaks it free. I would think I`d want my rinseless chemical to be kinda sticky since I need the dirt removed as I`m going straight to drying without a second rinse.

I know there exists defoamers which are the opposite of foamers - as hard as you agitate the solution it will never foam. So I feel like you could make a "traditional" shampoo (that would require rinsing) that makes zero foam, but no one would probably buy it lol. I mean if you`re gentile enough mixing your regular shampoo you can wash with minimal foam, I think there`s an old video of Mike Phillips doing just that.

I wish I understood the chemistry better, I find this stuff interesting.
 
Living in a neighborhood with a HOA is always the worst. Never again will I ever live in one again. It`s always ran by an old lady with no life except her cats that has nothing better to do than peak out her window and creep on everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Your new method for him seems solid, just a shame another HOA zealot wins. I almost moved to a HOA controlled neighborhood a few years ago luckily I read the HOA agreement fornt to back 2 times and realized its not for me. I can`t knowingly relinquish that much control in my life to other people.
 
DetailZeus said:
But aren`t rinseless washes supposed to be inherently "sticky"? I thought the (cationic?) surfactants bound to everything, the paint, the bucket, the dirt, your wash media. Whereas (anionic?) shampoos basically emulsify oils but leave the dirt suspended in solution after your wash mitt breaks it free. I would think I`d want my rinseless chemical to be kinda sticky since I need the dirt removed as I`m going straight to drying without a second rinse.

I know there exists defoamers which are the opposite of foamers - as hard as you agitate the solution it will never foam. So I feel like you could make a "traditional" shampoo (that would require rinsing) that makes zero foam, but no one would probably buy it lol. I mean if you`re gentile enough mixing your regular shampoo you can wash with minimal foam, I think there`s an old video of Mike Phillips doing just that.

I wish I understood the chemistry better, I find this stuff interesting.
Click to expand...

TBH...

I don`t really know the chemistry part of these soaps all that well. But for someone that is worried about going to a rinse-less method of washing you can use almost all of these products just like a normal was soap and even rinse them after washing. I personally have done this many times in my transition into a more conventional rinse-less wash. For ultimate safety I use the multiple towel method so I don`t ever bring a dirty mitt back to the surface.
 
TroyScherer said:
It has been my finding that a foam cannon really doesn`t do any more or better cleaning then simply a pressure washer alone. So skip the snow foam and just use the PW.
Click to expand...

This is only my OPINION. I am not telling people how to or how not to use their foam cannon/foam gun.

A lot of people misunderstand foam. Foam shouldn`t be used to "clean" a vehicle. It should be used as a lubricating agent when washing the vehicle. What alot of people do is this:

Rinse
Foam
Rinse
2 Bucket wash
Rinse

What I do is this :

Rinse
Foam
2 bucket wash
Rinse

I always use the foam as a lubricating agent when washing. It makes the vehicle crazy slick and it really helps with swirl prevention because of all the lubrication.

I have washed every car this way and have not put any swirls into the paint what so ever. As always, make sure you rinse your wash mitt often.
 
TheDetailer718 said:
This is only my OPINION.
A lot of people misunderstand foam. Foam shouldn`t be used to "clean" a vehicle. It should be used as a lubricating agent when washing the vehicle.

What I do is this :

Rinse
Foam
2 bucket wash
Rinse

I always use the foam as a lubricating agent when washing. It makes the vehicle crazy slick and it really helps with swirl prevention because of all the lubrication.

I have washed every car this way and have not put any swirls into the paint what so ever. As always, make sure you rinse your wash mitt often.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

This is why I have moved away from the foam "cannon" that makes tons of dry foam and back to the hose "gun" that makes a wet foam.



With the cannon you already have a PW out and I have found it is just as effective to just use the PW and not the cannon. Using the Gun I don`t have to drag out the PW and I get a wet foam that lubricates.
 
nickclark08 said:
Kinda BS for the neighbor to just run and tattle on him without talking to him first.

I like the wash method. Maybe another PW rinse at the very beginning to knock off the caked-on stuff? Probably not necessary unless he lets it get super dirty between washings.
Click to expand...

Same old story, some people ar just A** Holes. One of the main reasons I do not look for or have a Home Owners Association.

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top