Torn between the Flex and Makita...
- Thread starter Labster
- Start date
Preachers Sheets
New member
The rotary is even good for the weekend warrior. I would suggest anyone start with a PC because it's always good to have one laying around. Straight from that I'd recommend a rotary. If I had it all over again I'd start with a rotary and nothing else.
Rotary's are not for the expert or professional. They are easy to learn, safe and give you a great finish with alot less effort and time than a random orbital. You even get to use much more mild products to get the job done with is a big plus in my eyes. I like the 2 step polishing jobs, not the 3-5, too much time.
If you guys lived near me I'd let you use my rotary so you'd see.
Rotary's are not for the expert or professional. They are easy to learn, safe and give you a great finish with alot less effort and time than a random orbital. You even get to use much more mild products to get the job done with is a big plus in my eyes. I like the 2 step polishing jobs, not the 3-5, too much time.
If you guys lived near me I'd let you use my rotary so you'd see.
Preachers Sheets
New member
Lumadar said:
Umm, I only get holograms with a rotary when I'm using heavy cut stuff. Even so, after a compound you still need to use a polish before going to a wax sealent and the polish fixes everything. Thats only a two step job.
If your using the same abrasive with a Flex and rotary then your doing something wrong. A rotary will take a mild swirl mark remover and make it alot more effective than it would be with a random orbital.
If your getting holograms with a product on the rotary but not the Flex then your using your rotary incorrectly.
The rotary cuts down on how many steps are in your polishing routine, if it's adding more then ..... I dont know.
I use my rotary to compound all the way to applying Klasse AIO (very mild paint cleaner).
Driven Auto Detail
New member
Jliao said:
Hey Jimmy!
The Makita 9227 is what you want to get. I'm moving into a shop here in Brownsburg sometime in March. You're welcome to stop by if you want to try mine out before you buy one.
joed1228 said:
I appreciate the mini teaching lesson, but I have it under control.
I know how to use a rotary (use it on virtually ever detail, and almost always finish out with the rotary), FLEX, and my G110. I also know how to create and or avoid holograms with a rotary. However, your generalized comments fail to account for real world variables that occur, and there are times when even the best technique and products will have issues. Hence my saying that it is nice to have a "different" choice in the FLEX.
Also, you say only heavy cut stuff that will always need to be followed by a polish can leave holograms- so I guess you haven't used M105. :nixweiss
I'm fully capable of finishing swirl free with even a 12 cut compound via rotary in some circumstances (see above for why that isn't always possible) as evidenced by this: (started and finished 100% with rotary and M105 Ultra Cut COMPOUND...) which just goes to show that detailing doesn't fit into cute little boxes- there are just too many ways to do things, and too many variables. :waxing:
Accumulator
Well-known member
joed1228 said:
That hasn't been my experience, and I've seen light holograms even on "hologram-free" vehicles done by *very* highly regarded pros (no, I'm absolutely *not* saying that anybody in particular is leaving holograms).
I'll readily admit that I'm no rotary-Meister, but I've used my rotaries quite a bit over the years and I'm nobody's idea of a klutz....finishing out 100% hologram-free is simply not that easy IME; I've never done it via rotary but a quick pass with the Flex 3401/Cyclo/PC clears things right up.
Last I heard, even Mike Phillips is still finishing out with a [Meguiar's version of a RO polisher], and it's not like he doesn't know his way around a rotary
Different things work differently for different people.
Junebug
JAFO
I bought a PC, then the makita rotary. After using the makita I discovered that it's great on hoods and tops, but gets a tad heavy doing doors and fenders. Also, like Accumulator said - finishing 100% with a rotary "can" be done, especially using ultrafina SE and the 3M pad but I found it was easier to just use FFII and my PC. I eventually got where I wanted to try the Flex and I sold my makita and got one. I do not regret that decision one bit. I recently did a neglected 02 white Ford Expedition with SIP on a PFW pad followed by FFII on a white LC pad - quick and easy, with no sling and no halograms.
Unless the flex starts out at 0 rpm like the Makita, then its no comparison... Makita all the way!!
My other rotory, forget the brand, started at 1000rpms.. No feather trigger.. it was horrible. The Makita with a low 600 rpm setting and a feather trigger, makes it the easiest rotory for me!!
I heard good things about flex and its weight and build quality.. but don't under estimate the ease of a 600rpm machine that works tight areas easy!!!
My other rotory, forget the brand, started at 1000rpms.. No feather trigger.. it was horrible. The Makita with a low 600 rpm setting and a feather trigger, makes it the easiest rotory for me!!
I heard good things about flex and its weight and build quality.. but don't under estimate the ease of a 600rpm machine that works tight areas easy!!!
Accumulator
Well-known member
David703 said:
Yeah, with rotaries a ramp-up-trigger or some kind of "soft start" is great (my Makita has the former, my Metabo has the latter). But I think the "Flex" under discussion here is their 3401 Dual Action, not their rotaries and with a DA I never find the start up to be that big a deal.
Not sure how their rotaries start up, but I do know that Anthony O. loves his, so they probably work well
Accumulator
Well-known member
MDRX8- Ya know, there's never much metion of the Hitachi, huh? In my case, I just (unfairly) knee-jerk about them having had a bad experience with a Hitachi hammer-drill.
Eliot Ness
Active member
Those were all the rage here 2 or 3 years back when they were selling for about $90. The $90 supply ran out, then they went out-of-stock almost everywhere, and then the price went up.MDRX8 said:
Some really like them but others have had some problems, but I can't recall offhand exactly who they were.
I've been considering which of these 2 machines to buy for over a week. Unlike Labster, I have never used a buffer/polisher of any sort and the conclusion I reached after searching the forums was to stay away from a rotary and start with a DA. I then did more research and decided on the Flex 3401 over the Makita BO6040.
Next - I waffled. I had started to read the minority opinions of some forum members who basically said that a newbie + research + common sense + a little aptitude + a rotary works just fine. Posts in this thread from Joed1228 and MBenz advance this idea.
Yesterday I ordered a re-conditioned Makita 9227C. I've also arranged to pick up a hood from a local body shop to practice on. Although I will use the rotary conserevatively, I still expect it to meet my needs. However, if I can't produce hologram-free results, I'll buy a PC for finish work. My total expenditure will still be $20 less than a Flex 3401.
I know, I know - I could have bought the PC first, and then get the rotary if I actually needed it. But I really wanted the rotary.
Next - I waffled. I had started to read the minority opinions of some forum members who basically said that a newbie + research + common sense + a little aptitude + a rotary works just fine. Posts in this thread from Joed1228 and MBenz advance this idea.
Yesterday I ordered a re-conditioned Makita 9227C. I've also arranged to pick up a hood from a local body shop to practice on. Although I will use the rotary conserevatively, I still expect it to meet my needs. However, if I can't produce hologram-free results, I'll buy a PC for finish work. My total expenditure will still be $20 less than a Flex 3401.
I know, I know - I could have bought the PC first, and then get the rotary if I actually needed it. But I really wanted the rotary.
Preachers Sheets
New member
Everything has it's place in the world of detailing. I just think a rotary is a better all around tool than a Flex. Put a 4 inch pad on it and you've got small areas covered, if the car is new and doesnt need alot of work the toss a big soft pad and keep the speed low and you've got a weak polisher, need a heavy cut setup then get a compound and wool pad.
I just dont see why people would want a random orbital for mild jobs and only use a rotary for big tough jobs. Save money and use one machine and since you'll be doing mild to wild jobs with the rotary you'll get very very good with the machine. It also saves time and that's more important to me when detailing.
If you people are getting holograms with even mild polishes and a soft pad when using a rotary, honestly I dont know what to tell you. With weaker products I never see any holograms.
To each their own, buy the random orbital and if you want a rotary then buy a rotary. Use both for a while and if you dont think you need one or the other there are tons of people that will be either off of you.
I just dont see why people would want a random orbital for mild jobs and only use a rotary for big tough jobs. Save money and use one machine and since you'll be doing mild to wild jobs with the rotary you'll get very very good with the machine. It also saves time and that's more important to me when detailing.
If you people are getting holograms with even mild polishes and a soft pad when using a rotary, honestly I dont know what to tell you. With weaker products I never see any holograms.
To each their own, buy the random orbital and if you want a rotary then buy a rotary. Use both for a while and if you dont think you need one or the other there are tons of people that will be either off of you.
I bought a Hitachi POLISHER BUFFER SP18VA ... It is very hard to get use to because it spins and wants to go in all kinds of directions. It is a nice machine but I'll take the Flex 3401 anytime. I don't have any serious swirl marks to correct.
The Flex has matched any challange I have put it to.
So like the above, to each his own.
The Flex has matched any challange I have put it to.
So like the above, to each his own.
I am new to detailing, my experiences are just clay baring the car and waxing it. I've been looking forward to get into the whole polishing level.
From what I am reading, i am really liking the Makita P227, but i am a noob. I have seen people recommend PC kits, and flex for beginners like me.
Do you guy think it is worthwhile to go ahead and take that big giant leap to the Makita?
- T
From what I am reading, i am really liking the Makita P227, but i am a noob. I have seen people recommend PC kits, and flex for beginners like me.
Do you guy think it is worthwhile to go ahead and take that big giant leap to the Makita?
- T
Apollo_Auto
New member
Maki all the way!
Accumulator
Well-known member
sdkid- Welcome to Autopia!
Since you're just starting out with the whole machine polishing thing, IMO you'd better have *some* kind of D/A or random orbital on hand if you go with the Makita. Some of us find it impossible to finish 100% hologram-free with a rotary and simply *have* to use the other type of machine for the final work.
In the absence of a D/A or R/O I'd simply be left with hologorams, light ones that few would notice, but still unacceptable! Heh heh, I'd hate to leave a vehicle in the shop for days while I rush-ordered another machine but I'd simply *NEVER* drive anything with holograms on it.
Beyond personal preference (and yeah, some people *do* prefer the rotary), I just can't see a situation where the Flex 3401 wouldn't do the job. My M3's clear is so hard I was really *struggling* with my rotaries, using high speeds, rocks-in-a-bottle compounds, wool pads, you name it. The Flex 3401 did the job just fine using M105. Now that there are products like M105 available, I just don't see the Flex being unable to do the job. [Heck], M105 works fine by hand on my Audis (even if it does take a while) and those used to require a rotary for serious correction. IMO it's a new day (at least for non-pros) and newer-tech products have gone a long way towards making a rotary unnecessary for many people.
Eh...I'm a broken record on this: Blah blah "Flex 3401" blah blah blah "Cyclo" blah blah blah...
Since you're just starting out with the whole machine polishing thing, IMO you'd better have *some* kind of D/A or random orbital on hand if you go with the Makita. Some of us find it impossible to finish 100% hologram-free with a rotary and simply *have* to use the other type of machine for the final work.
In the absence of a D/A or R/O I'd simply be left with hologorams, light ones that few would notice, but still unacceptable! Heh heh, I'd hate to leave a vehicle in the shop for days while I rush-ordered another machine but I'd simply *NEVER* drive anything with holograms on it.
Beyond personal preference (and yeah, some people *do* prefer the rotary), I just can't see a situation where the Flex 3401 wouldn't do the job. My M3's clear is so hard I was really *struggling* with my rotaries, using high speeds, rocks-in-a-bottle compounds, wool pads, you name it. The Flex 3401 did the job just fine using M105. Now that there are products like M105 available, I just don't see the Flex being unable to do the job. [Heck], M105 works fine by hand on my Audis (even if it does take a while) and those used to require a rotary for serious correction. IMO it's a new day (at least for non-pros) and newer-tech products have gone a long way towards making a rotary unnecessary for many people.
Eh...I'm a broken record on this: Blah blah "Flex 3401" blah blah blah "Cyclo" blah blah blah...