Those with shops...

The fact is that most people don't really care about their cars. Cars are just basic transportation to most people, and they don't really care how they look. Granted, most people would much prefer a nice looking car, but not enough to do the work to detail it themselves, and not enough to pay someone with a shop to do it, like yourself, regardless of how great or professional your work is. That is what you seem to be overlooking here.



No matter how great a work you do, there is limit on how much money people are willing to spend to keep their cars looking nice, period. That is precisely the reason why "the kid next door" can make money by washing and waxing his neighbor's cars, and even leave a little wax behind here and there, and not do any polishing to get swirls out.



It would be nice if everyone cared enough about the appearance of their cars to keep them nice, but the reality is that the vast majority of people who make less money at their jobs than professional auto detailers make will simply detail their cars THEMSELVES if they really want them to be nice.

Correct me if I am wrong, but most auto detailing clients make more money at their jobs than the detailers make.

Auto detailing is just about looks. It isn't like mechanical work, which REQUIRES great competency because it is a matter of life and death. Most people just don't care that much about the looks of their things. Most people simply lack the passion.



So if it takes a certain amount of time and effort to do a car the way it really should be done, that is simply how much it is going to cost. If people don't think that the looks of their cars aren't worth that much money, then they aren't going to pay, even though that is indeed how much it r is really worth to do it right. As long as there are people who lack the funds or the interest to spend their funds on a pro detailer, they won't be taking their car to one, whether the "kid next door" is going to do it for them or not.[/QUOTE]
 
BLACKTHORNE



The fact is that most people don't really care about their cars. Cars are just basic transportation to most people, and they don't really care how they look. Granted, most people would much prefer a nice looking car, but not enough to do the work to detail it themselves, and not enough to pay someone with a shop to do it, like yourself, regardless of how great or professional your work is. That is what you seem to be overlooking here.



WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR BROAD GENERALIZATION. IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE THE NUMBER OF DETAIL BUSINESSES IN THE USA WOULD NOT HAVE GONE FROM 4,000 IN 1980 TO OVER 15,000 TODAY. THE NUMBER OF CAR WASHES (17,000 IN THE USA) OFFERING DETAILING IN 1980 FROM 10% TO OVER 55% TODAY. EVEN BODY SHOPS; AUTO DEALERS AND QUICK LUBES (11%) OFFER DETAILILNG TO THE PUBLIC.



AS WELL, THE CAR WASH INDUSTRY IS BOOMING. PEOPLE ARE INVESTING FROM $2 MILLION TO OVER $10 MILLION DOLLARS IN CAR WASH FACILITIES.



No matter how great a work you do, there is limit on how much money people are willing to spend to keep their cars looking nice, period.



THAT IS CORRECT, BUT THAT IS ONLY A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION. NOT THE ENTIRE DRIVING POPULATION OF THE USA.



That is precisely the reason why "the kid next door" can make money by washing and waxing his neighbor's cars, and even leave a little wax behind here and there, and not do any polishing to get swirls out.



PEOPLE WHO DO NOT CARE WHAT THEIR CAR LOOKS LIKE WILL NOT EVEN PAY THE KID NEXT DOOR TO WASH AND WAX THEIR CAR. AT LEAST THAT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE.



CAR WASH INDUSTRY STATISTICS INDICATE THAT OVER 50% OF THE MOTORING PUBLIC USE A PROFESSIONAL CAR WASH. THE OTHERS EITHER WASH THEIR VEHICLE AT HOME OR NOT AT ALL.



AND, THE GROWTH OF RETAIL CAR CARE PRODUCTS COMPANIES SUCH AS TURTLE WAX; ARMORALL AND OTHERS INDICATES THAT SOMEONE IS BUYING CAR CARE PRODUCTS TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR VEHICLE'S APPEARANCE.



It would be nice if everyone cared enough about the appearance of their cars to keep them nice, but the reality is that the vast majority of people who make less money at their jobs than professional auto detailers make will simply detail their cars THEMSELVES if they really want them to be nice.



AGREED, BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF MOTORISTS OUT THERE FOR MANY, MANY DETAIL BUSINESSES TO FLOURISH. PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MONEY; DO NOT WANT TO DO IT THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY VALUE THEIR LEISURE TIME AND WILL PAY OTHERS TO DO IT FOR THEM.



Correct me if I am wrong, but most auto detailing clients make more money at their jobs than the detailers make.



DEPENDS, BUT FOR THE MOST PART I BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT.



Auto detailing is just about looks. It isn't like mechanical work, which REQUIRES great competency because it is a matter of life and death. Most people just don't care that much about the looks of their things. Most people simply lack the passion.



CARS ARE PURCHASED ON LOOKS FOR THE MOST PART. THAT IS WHY THEY HAVE SUCH EXOTIC COLORS ON TODAY'S VEHICLES; AND FANCY LEATHER INTERIORS; AND GORGEOUS STYLING FEATURES. IT IS ABOUT EMOTION NOT PERFORMANCE, FOR MOST PEOPLE BUYING A CAR. THE DAYS WHEN HENRY FORD SAID, "YOU CAN HAVE ANY COLORED FORD CAR YOU WANT, AS LONG AS IT IS BLACK," ARE LONG GONE.



So if it takes a certain amount of time and effort to do a car the way it really should be done, that is simply how much it is going to cost. If people don't think that the looks of their cars aren't worth that much money, then they aren't going to pay, even though that is indeed how much it r is really worth to do it right.



DONE RIGHT, IS RELATIVE. TOO MANY DETAILERS ARE TRYING TO BE ARTISTS AND ARE DOING FAR TOO MUCH WORK ON THE VEHICLE. WORK THE CUSTOMER DOES NOT WANT TO BE DONE. "JUST SHINE IT UP AND GET THE DIRT OFF THE CARPETS." THAT IS ALL MOST WANT TO PURCHASE.



THAT IS WHY CAR WASHES ARE MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR SELLLING MAINTENANCE WAXES AND MAINTENANCE CARPET SHAMPOOS TO THEIR CAR WASH CUSTOMERS. THAT IS WHAT THE CUSTOMERS WANT, CONVENIENCE, FAST SERVICE AND A REASONABLE PRICE. LIKE IT OR NOT THAT IS THE WAY THE MARKET IS TODAY. YOU EITHER GET ON BOARD WITH THE DEMAND OR YOU DON'T. WHO IS THE LARGEST RETAIL IN THE USA, THE WORLD TODAY? NOT NIEMAN-MARCUS, IT IS WALMART. CAR WASHES HAVE PROVEN YOU CAN SELL VOLUME DETAILING BY OFFERING A MAINTENANCE WAX OR CARPET SHAMPOO. NOT TO CARS NEEDING RESTORATION, BUT TO CARS THAT CAN GET BY WITH A MAINTENANCE SERVICE.



NOT ALL CARS NEED AN ENGINE REBUILD WHEN A TUNE UP IS JUST FINE. SAME WITH DETAIL SERVICES.





As long as there are people who lack the funds or the interest to spend their funds on a pro detailer, they won't be taking their car to one, whether the "kid next door" is going to do it for them or not.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]



IN MY OPINION THAT IS NOT WHY PEOPLE USE THE KID NEXT DOOR, THEY USE HIM BECAUSE HE IS OUT THEIR HUSTLING AND ASKING FOR THE BUSINESS. TO MANY DETAILERS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PROMOTE THEIR BUSINESS OR THEIR SERVICES TO THE CUSTOMER AND AS A RESULT THE CUSTOMER DOES NOT KNOW THEY EXIST.



PLUS, EVERYONE, EVEN THE RICH ARE GOING TO TAKE A GOOD PRICE AND IF THE PRICE IS LOW THEY WILL BITE.



THE PICTURE IS NOT AS DISMAL AS YOU INDICATE. THERE IS PLENTY OF GOOD BUSINESS OUT THEIR YOU JUST HAVE TO DO SOME MARKET RESEARCH AND FIND OUT WHO YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE AND MARKET TO THEM AND NOT THOSE WHO WON'T BUY SERVICES ANYWAY. FIND THE RIGHT MARKET AND THEY WILL BEAT A PATH TO YOUR SHOP OR YOUR MOBILE RIG,



BUD ABRAHAM
 
buda said:
DONE RIGHT, IS RELATIVE. TOO MANY DETAILERS ARE TRYING TO BE ARTISTS AND ARE DOING FAR TOO MUCH WORK ON THE VEHICLE. WORK THE CUSTOMER DOES NOT WANT TO BE DONE. "JUST SHINE IT UP AND GET THE DIRT OFF THE CARPETS." THAT IS ALL MOST WANT TO PURCHASE.



THAT IS WHY CAR WASHES ARE MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR SELLLING MAINTENANCE WAXES AND MAINTENANCE CARPET SHAMPOOS TO THEIR CAR WASH CUSTOMERS. THAT IS WHAT THE CUSTOMERS WANT, CONVENIENCE, FAST SERVICE AND A REASONABLE PRICE. LIKE IT OR NOT THAT IS THE WAY THE MARKET IS TODAY. YOU EITHER GET ON BOARD WITH THE DEMAND OR YOU DON'T. WHO IS THE LARGEST RETAIL IN THE USA, THE WORLD TODAY? NOT NIEMAN-MARCUS, IT IS WALMART. CAR WASHES HAVE PROVEN YOU CAN SELL VOLUME DETAILING BY OFFERING A MAINTENANCE WAX OR CARPET SHAMPOO. NOT TO CARS NEEDING RESTORATION, BUT TO CARS THAT CAN GET BY WITH A MAINTENANCE SERVICE.



NOT ALL CARS NEED AN ENGINE REBUILD WHEN A TUNE UP IS JUST FINE. SAME WITH DETAIL SERVICES.
Click to expand...



Bud, you and I have butted heads before, so I want to be perfectly clear when I say this. You are clearly in the wrong place. This is NOT a forum for general detailing or showing the upside of volume work. We all understand that volume is where the money is. This forum was built around the passion that some have for a car detailed and then kept to better than showroom standards. It is not for everyone, obviously.



You keep pushing volume-based ideas and ethics on everyone here, and it's just not going to stick. This is a forum for "artists" as you say, and people are starting to resent you trying to push your agenda all the time. Again, this is not an attack at all. I'm just trying to let you know that your aims are not the same as the majority of members here. Nothing wrong with that, but I feel you may be missing the whole reason this particular forum exists.
 
Mike



Appreciate your post. Up until a few months ago I had not been on Autopia for 10 years plus. But was invited by the the forum webmaster to come back to the site and to make posts with the admonition that those on the forum would be interested to what I have to say.



I have no agenda, I am a member of the detailing industry and work with detailers who want to make money in the detail business.



Are you telling me that those on this site are not in business to make money?



You are wrong in your thinking if you believe that you cannot turn out a quality detail in 4 manhours. Of course I am not talking about taking off the wheels and cleaning both sides of the wheel and cleaning the rotors, etc. Taking out the seats and carpets and power washing the interior which I know some people do.



But a wash; engine clean; trunk clean & shampoo and buff, polish and wax can be done in 4 manhours easily .



If you call that volume that is your opinion.



If the webmasters do not want me on the site I will be happy to drop off, but I was asked to participate, was asked to post my opinions and asked to post information as I have done.



If you speak for the webmaster and the other detailers on the site I am more than happy to drop off.



Regards

Bud Abraham
 
I don't speak for anyone but myself. But please understand that the majority of people here would consider most 4 hour details a "volume" job. Not every case, obviously, but depending on the car 4 hours could either be a one-step on a good-condition car or just a thorough wash on a beat-up SUV. At the other end of the spectrum, take a look at Bob Willis' 90-hour Porsche detail or Brad B's complete resto on his used 4Runner. That is what the majority of us come here to see, and hopefully to emulate. No offense, but a lot of what you're pushing is falling on deaf ears.







As for Mike, sorry this has gone so far OT. Good luck with your new shop, I hope it works out well for you. Keep us posted!
 
Mike



Not pushing anything other than offering opinions. You are the only person since I have been on Autopia that has made the statements you have made. I find it hard to believe that everyone on the site is only interested in doing 3 and 4 day or more details. It would be great if we could keep busy all year round doing those kinds of details.



If you speak for the webmaster and you speak for others on the forum I am happy to spend my time elsewhere.



As I say, I was invited to post on Autopia, for no other reason.



If you don't like what I have to say, then ignore it. And if you like what I say you can ignore it too.



Makes no difference to me whether you agree or disagree with what I have to say. What I say are my opinions based on 40+ years in the business.



And that is why I am here posting to help those in the "business of detailing" to make money.



How good you do your work is really determined by your customer and what they are willing to pay. If you do not have any paying customers then it makes no difference what kind of artist you are.



Regards

Bud ABraham
 
buda said:
BLACKTHORNE



The fact is that most people don't really care about their cars. Cars are just basic transportation to most people, and they don't really care how they look. Granted, most people would much prefer a nice looking car, but not enough to do the work to detail it themselves, and not enough to pay someone with a shop to do it, like yourself, regardless of how great or professional your work is. That is what you seem to be overlooking here.



WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR BROAD GENERALIZATION. IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE THE NUMBER OF DETAIL BUSINESSES IN THE USA WOULD NOT HAVE GONE FROM 4,000 IN 1980 TO OVER 15,000 TODAY. THE NUMBER OF CAR WASHES (17,000 IN THE USA) OFFERING DETAILING IN 1980 FROM 10% TO OVER 55% TODAY. EVEN BODY SHOPS; AUTO DEALERS AND QUICK LUBES (11%) OFFER DETAILILNG TO THE PUBLIC.



AS WELL, THE CAR WASH INDUSTRY IS BOOMING. PEOPLE ARE INVESTING FROM $2 MILLION TO OVER $10 MILLION DOLLARS IN CAR WASH FACILITIES.



No matter how great a work you do, there is limit on how much money people are willing to spend to keep their cars looking nice, period.



THAT IS CORRECT, BUT THAT IS ONLY A CERTAIN SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION. NOT THE ENTIRE DRIVING POPULATION OF THE USA.



That is precisely the reason why "the kid next door" can make money by washing and waxing his neighbor's cars, and even leave a little wax behind here and there, and not do any polishing to get swirls out.



PEOPLE WHO DO NOT CARE WHAT THEIR CAR LOOKS LIKE WILL NOT EVEN PAY THE KID NEXT DOOR TO WASH AND WAX THEIR CAR. AT LEAST THAT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE.



CAR WASH INDUSTRY STATISTICS INDICATE THAT OVER 50% OF THE MOTORING PUBLIC USE A PROFESSIONAL CAR WASH. THE OTHERS EITHER WASH THEIR VEHICLE AT HOME OR NOT AT ALL.





BUD ABRAHAM
Click to expand...



The kid next door isn't going to offer top notch detailing, and isn't going to offer swirl removal, most likely, either. There is a difference between detailing, and simply washing, vacuuming, ans waxing cars. Car washes have been doing washes and waxes for over half a century, I think. That isn't "detailing" . REAL "detailing" is paying attention to the details, the little things that make a car look better than new. I realize that real detailers do simple washes, but that isn't a "detail" .

The U.S. population has increased about 50% since 1980, which is something that needs to be taken into consideration, and the term "detailing" was a largely unknown term for most people until the late 80's. I was in an ROP class for auto detailing in 1988, and there wasn't even an official textbook! All they had were paint and body manuals.

Point is, that the kind of work that the real artisans who do extensive work on cars, like as show car prep for example, is the kind of work that stood out so much from a simple wash and wax that the term "detailing" was warranted in order to refer to simple wash and wax, to distinguish people who do real details from simple wax jobs.

A lot of the work that some shops call detailing isn't really detailing. They just call it detailing, in order to make their work seem more sophisticated and valuable by associating it with the REAL detailing, done by true craftsmen who do DETAILED work.



For the most part, the people who use the kid next door want it done cheap, period. People know that there are professional shops that they can take their cars to, which they would if they wanted a high quality of service. However, detail shops don't necessarily do better work than the kid next door. One car I saw in 1988 that a girl I knew had a "professional" do that had excess wax as wide as 3/16 of an inch on various parts of her car. I would have done it perfect for less but she wanted a "professional". It didn't get her quality work. A few months ago I met an old friend of mine who paid someone $200 to detail his car at a shop, and there were places with wax 1/4 inch wide in places, white wax left on the black plastic bumper trim, and an unbuffed portion of wax on the lower part of the car 3 inches by 3 inches. Black Audi. He didn't know I did detail work, so...



Proper detailing all comes down to the individual craftsman, whether he has a shop or not.

The Kid next door who does a simple wash and wax, who does sloppy work isn't a detailer. That kid isn't taking away any business from a shop that does high end work like Barry Theal or David Fermani. Anyone who wants quality detailing isn't going to seek it from the neighborhood kid, unless that kid has done outstanding work that is up to the standards of that client. Such "kids next door" are extremely rare.

Are people going to go to that kid instead of going to a detail shop where they will pay more to get the same level of service? Absolutely. People have been hiring the kid next door to wash and wax their cars since car wax was invented, long before detail shops ever existed, and they will continue to do so. This is an important point. What is detailing? It is doing a job of such a high quality that it stands so far apart from what the kid next door has been doing since car wax was invented that it tells people hey, this caliber of work that this shop offers is far beyond what I can get anywhere else, so I will go there.
 
Blackthorne;



you are preaching the the choir. I agree with all that you said. The kid next door is usually not a detailer in any way shape or form.



What the car washes offer is what the customer wants, a protective wax on a vehicle in good condition and a light carpet shampoo to take off the surface dirt.



We are talking about a car that needs only a tune up, not an engine rebuild. What they offer is very good service for what they are asked to do. You have no right to demean this work.



You rebuild engines and that is all you want to do, great, but not everyone needs and engine rebuild. In short not all cars need a restoration detail.



As you say there are few reall professionals in the detail business. I have met very few that really had a full knowledge of every aspect of the vehicle they were working; a thorough knowledge of the chemicals they use; the equipment they use.



I would bet $1000 dollars that over 75% of the detailers who claim to be professionals could not pass the ida certification written test which tests their knowledge.



In my opinion if you do not have the information in your brain it is hard to get your hands to do the work. It is all by rote then. You know, not 5 years experience but 3 months experience doing the same thing 4 years and 9 months.





Enjoy the interchange.



Bud abraham



blackthornone said:
the kid next door isn't going to offer top notch detailing, and isn't going to offer swirl removal, most likely, either. There is a difference between detailing, and simply washing, vacuuming, ans waxing cars. Car washes have been doing washes and waxes for over half a century, i think. That isn't "detailing" . Real "detailing" is paying attention to the details, the little things that make a car look better than new. I realize that real detailers do simple washes, but that isn't a "detail" .

The u.s. Population has increased about 50% since 1980, which is something that needs to be taken into consideration, and the term "detailing" was a largely unknown term for most people until the late 80's. I was in an rop class for auto detailing in 1988, and there wasn't even an official textbook! All they had were paint and body manuals.

Point is, that the kind of work that the real artisans who do extensive work on cars, like as show car prep for example, is the kind of work that stood out so much from a simple wash and wax that the term "detailing" was warranted in order to refer to simple wash and wax, to distinguish people who do real details from simple wax jobs.

A lot of the work that some shops call detailing isn't really detailing. They just call it detailing, in order to make their work seem more sophisticated and valuable by associating it with the real detailing, done by true craftsmen who do detailed work.



For the most part, the people who use the kid next door want it done cheap, period. People know that there are professional shops that they can take their cars to, which they would if they wanted a high quality of service. However, detail shops don't necessarily do better work than the kid next door. One car i saw in 1988 that a girl i knew had a "professional" do that had excess wax as wide as 3/16 of an inch on various parts of her car. I would have done it perfect for less but she wanted a "professional". It didn't get her quality work. A few months ago i met an old friend of mine who paid someone $200 to detail his car at a shop, and there were places with wax 1/4 inch wide in places, white wax left on the black plastic bumper trim, and an unbuffed portion of wax on the lower part of the car 3 inches by 3 inches. Black audi. He didn't know i did detail work, so...



Proper detailing all comes down to the individual craftsman, whether he has a shop or not.

The kid next door who does a simple wash and wax, who does sloppy work isn't a detailer. That kid isn't taking away any business from a shop that does high end work like barry theal or david fermani. Anyone who wants quality detailing isn't going to seek it from the neighborhood kid, unless that kid has done outstanding work that is up to the standards of that client. Such "kids next door" are extremely rare.

Are people going to go to that kid instead of going to a detail shop where they will pay more to get the same level of service? Absolutely. People have been hiring the kid next door to wash and wax their cars since car wax was invented, long before detail shops ever existed, and they will continue to do so. This is an important point. What is detailing? It is doing a job of such a high quality that it stands so far apart from what the kid next door has been doing since car wax was invented that it tells people hey, this caliber of work that this shop offers is far beyond what i can get anywhere else, so i will go there.
Click to expand...
 
buda said:
You are wrong in your thinking if you believe that you cannot turn out a quality detail in 4 manhours. Of course I am not talking about taking off the wheels and cleaning both sides of the wheel and cleaning the rotors, etc. Taking out the seats and carpets and power washing the interior which I know some people do.



But a wash; engine clean; trunk clean & shampoo and buff, polish and wax can be done in 4 manhours easily .



If you call that volume that is your opinion.



If the webmasters do not want me on the site I will be happy to drop off, but I was asked to participate, was asked to post my opinions and asked to post information as I have done.



If you speak for the webmaster and the other detailers on the site I am more than happy to drop off.



Regards

Bud Abraham
Click to expand...



I find it difficult to believe that a quality detail can be done in 4 man hours. By 4 man hours, I take that to mean one man working 4 hours.

If you be so kind as to break it down for me, as to how much time he spends on each step, that would be helpful. If you had enough people working on a car at once, I understand how you could do a quality detail in 4 hours.
 
Gentlemen, please keep this discussion professional and open. The Detailing industry is comprised of a multitude of operations & I would like to think Autopia welcomes everyone to share and express their views and opinions based on their hands on experiences. Be it high volume work or ultra high end concourse details & everything in between. Every region has a different dynamic of customers as well as Detailers who service them. Nobody should look down on or pre-judge anyone for the choices they make in running their business. We should keep an open mind and understand that no 2 businesses & technicians are the same.
 
David Fermani said:
Gentlemen, please keep this discussion professional and open. The Detailing industry is comprised of a multitude of operations & I would like to think Autopia welcomes everyone to share and express their views and opinions based on their hands on experiences. Be it high volume work or ultra high end concourse details & everything in between. Every region has a different dynamic of customers as well as Detailers who service them. Nobody should avoid looking down on or pre-judging anyone for the choices they make in running their business. We should keep an open mind and understand that no 2 businesses & technicians are the same.
Click to expand...



Apologies. This whole thread needs to be brought back on topic.:hippie::peace:
 
"This whole thread needs to be brought back on topic."



Well, I'm here to help.



We have had fixed locations for 8 years. Started in a small space (1100sf) with room for two vehicles. I operated by myself for 8 or nine months and brought on a fulltime assistant. That 1st Shop was a storefront on a major highway. Our location was on the edge of two very affluent suburbs and less than 1/2 mile from an Interstate. We did Autopian work, and word of mouth was good, very good. After 2 years, a third assistant was hired and volume continued to expand.



At the end of the third year, we expanded to additional space across the parking lot.

After some failed negotiations with a naive landlord, we moved just a 1/4 mile away to a 3500 sf facility that has proven to be just perfect for our system.



tumblr_lquvhvGdaL1qzkjbq




We seldom go mobile. We strongly feel that we are both more efficient, and more proficient in our Shop. Additionally our steamers, extractors, etc require a great deal of amperage, which is overwhelming for most 15 amp circuits found in most driveways.



The current location is in an industrial park, not visible from the street. We tell folks "We're easy to get to, but hard to find." Our word of mouth (and website) have served us well.



This upcoming Labor Day Weekend will find us mobile for 4 days at the NHRA US Nationals caring for a large Ford Motor Display, good money but not really detailing.



Oh, just another thought: We do primarily retail work. It is important for us to be convenient to high income neighborhoods. Close to folks who have substantial disposable income. Focus on that. The margins (profit) at retail are so much better than wholesale (dealers, auctions, etc.)



Hope some of this is helpful (and back on topic!)



Sorry 'bout the huge picture...
 
Well and again the search for a shop begins again. I am starting to think its not going to happen. I have been searching since late May and every place I find is either to expensive, not in a great central location or something comes up. The last three weeks I had been putting all my effort into the latest location as it was PERFECT. Price, location and layout. Then after being on the run around by the city it was in for the last two days I find out today, I can be licensed for the location over some ******* city ordniance.
 
MachNU said:
Well and again the search for a shop begins again. I am starting to think its not going to happen. I have been searching since late May and every place I find is either to expensive, not in a great central location or something comes up. The last three weeks I had been putting all my effort into the latest location as it was PERFECT. Price, location and layout. Then after being on the run around by the city it was in for the last two days I find out today, I can be licensed for the location over some ******* city ordniance.
Click to expand...



Mach



Let me give you some options to consider in finding a location:



a. Contact some of the bigger car washes in your area that might have a couple of bays that can be used for detailing. And see if they would rent these to you on some type of basis. So much a month or a per car basis, etc. This is a natural for you as there are hundreds of customers a week going through the wash that are potential customers. And, in many cases car wash operators do not want to be responsible for a detail operation. Where you located?



b. Contact some auto dealers who have have a detail dept or space for detailing. Most of them would prefer to not be involved in the operation of an inhouse dept and would love to provide space, utilities, etc in exchange for you doing the work and being responsible for labor. You can give them a good price for their details in exchange for space. Again you have all of their service customers to market to as well as promoting for your own customers. And, being in a dealership creates some creditability in the consumer's mind.



c. Finally a large body shop might have space for a detail operation.



Let us know if any of these ideas work out for you



Regards

Bud Abraham
 
mikenap said:
That sucks. Good luck with it, though. Did that guy from the BMW forum ever get with you?
Click to expand...



Nope, never heard anything from them.



buda said:
Mach



Let me give you some options to consider in finding a location:



a. Contact some of the bigger car washes in your area that might have a couple of bays that can be used for detailing. And see if they would rent these to you on some type of basis. So much a month or a per car basis, etc. This is a natural for you as there are hundreds of customers a week going through the wash that are potential customers. And, in many cases car wash operators do not want to be responsible for a detail operation. Where you located?



b. Contact some auto dealers who have have a detail dept or space for detailing. Most of them would prefer to not be involved in the operation of an inhouse dept and would love to provide space, utilities, etc in exchange for you doing the work and being responsible for labor. You can give them a good price for their details in exchange for space. Again you have all of their service customers to market to as well as promoting for your own customers. And, being in a dealership creates some creditability in the consumer's mind.



c. Finally a large body shop might have space for a detail operation.



Let us know if any of these ideas work out for you



Regards

Bud Abraham
Click to expand...



a. Only useful to someone who does cheap production work. Those hundreds of customers go there because the $20-35 "detail" is worth it to them. Plus most of those car washes that have detailers on staff, are the type that swril and hologram up the paint for $50-100.



b. Good idea, but here in GA there are two companies that came around about 3 years ago that are basically buying out detailing departs of dealerships. Doing basically exactly what you describe. Plus they do dealership level work.



c. Not something I do. All the "high end" body shops I know of in my area that actually do somewhat quaility work, already have detailing staffs that do less than quality.



I do not do production detailing. I am going to open a shop and offer quality work to dealerships, should they chose to use me. Other than that, its going to be a physical location to work out of and grow my business from.
 
machnu said:
nope, never heard anything from them.







A. Only useful to someone who does cheap production work. Those hundreds of customers go there because the $20-35 "detail" is worth it to them. Plus most of those car washes that have detailers on staff, are the type that swril and hologram up the paint for $50-100.



B. Good idea, but here in ga there are two companies that came around about 3 years ago that are basically buying out detailing departs of dealerships. Doing basically exactly what you describe. Plus they do dealership level work.



C. Not something i do. All the "high end" body shops i know of in my area that actually do somewhat quaility work, already have detailing staffs that do less than quality.



I do not do production detailing. I am going to open a shop and offer quality work to dealerships, should they chose to use me. Other than that, its going to be a physical location to work out of and grow my business from.
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am i missing something here? We are talking about a location, not about the quality of the work you do? You can perform any level of work you wish to perform at a car wash. You do not have to do express maintenance detailing services, you can perform only high quality work. The people who take their cars to automatic car washes are the top customers for high quality expensive detail work.



The same is true with a detail shop in a dealership. Sure, if you do work on the dealers cars you will cannot afford to spend 5 or 6 hours on a car, but it doing dealer level work gets you a good location at a low price it might be worth it.



Body shops - most i know hate the thought of doing detailing. We stopped marketing to body shops because the owners, like dealers, really do not want the responsibility of operating a detail dept. They make far too much money doing collision repair and paint work then detailing.



I think if you were more open minded about these locations you would find some great opportunities.



Regards

bud abraham
 
buda said:
am i missing something here? We are talking about a location, not about the quality of the work you do? You can perform any level of work you wish to perform at a car wash. You do not have to do express maintenance detailing services, you can perform only high quality work. The people who take their cars to automatic car washes are the top customers for high quality expensive detail work.



The same is true with a detail shop in a dealership. Sure, if you do work on the dealers cars you will cannot afford to spend 5 or 6 hours on a car, but it doing dealer level work gets you a good location at a low price it might be worth it.



Body shops - most i know hate the thought of doing detailing. We stopped marketing to body shops because the owners, like dealers, really do not want the responsibility of operating a detail dept. They make far too much money doing collision repair and paint work then detailing.



I think if you were more open minded about these locations you would find some great opportunities.



Regards

bud abraham
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I think you are missing something. Unless things are different on your side of the country, in GA most if not all of those people who go to automatic car washes or high end automatic car washes, Cactus Car Wash for those in GA, would never pay for my service. If they think that a $20-35 dollar scratch wash is great, then they would never pay $200+ for any sort of real paint detailing/correction.



For dealerships, again no. There might be some out there that car about the quality of detailing on their vehicles...but I have yet to hear of one. Dealerships only care about profit and time. They want the best looking job in the least amount time for as little of cost as they can get it. So someone like me who would charge them $200-600 for correction and want to spend either half a day to over a day on it, wont work for a dealership. Unless its a small Ferrari dealership, I doubt it would work.



Body shops again, the only big ones I know of in my area, have a detailing staff and they even offer detailing services. Which one, Magnum Collision for those in GA, I have already corrected some of their work. They do just like dealership production work.
 
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