This is best, No wait! This is best, No wait!

M

Mike-in-WV

New member
I'm no professional detailer nor do I plan on being one but I do take care of my vehicles and always have ....to a point. I'm a believer that all vehicles were meant to be used and if I just wanted to look at how pretty I can make one I would buy a model and keep it waxed and detailed and sitting on a shelf. Most of my spare time is spent off road driving old logging and mining roads and my trucks get some scratches, mud and just all around rough treatment but when I come out they are always washed and pampered right away. My vehicles always shine and the compliments from the people at the coffee shop never stop.

Now that I'm older and have more time I like to try new waxes and sealers and glazes and inside cleaners and tire cleaners and so on but there are so many on the market today and they all claim to be the best. Does anyone REALLY know the best wax to use? The best sealer to use? The best final detailer to use?

How do we know what finish detailer/sealer reacts the best with what wax? What do you consider a final detailer, Duragloss AW, Maguires NXT or some other product?

We also have products made by the same company sitting on the same shelf , side by side that claims to be better than it's own product! If I tried everything on the market today it would wipe out my retirement fund!

Sorry for going on so long but it sure can be confusing to the amateur wanting his vehicle to look good and help protect it from minor scratches and help keep the paint from fading in the hot sun and cold winter snows. Thanks for letting me ramble on like some old guy, :( Mike
 
I'm new too but found the ratings thing a good beginning. Problem is its all rather subjective...as in one's personal opinion. However with several it helps "point" to a "best".....Here's the result of my quick research on this forum...BTW under leather Connolly Hide Food has only one response and not overwhelmingly favorable compared to a few others and I find that unusual and thus I am a bit suspicious of all these ratings. WHY? THE most expensive cars in the world have used Connolly leather for over a half century....one would naturally assume their leather care product would be at least good and I can for a fact say it is HEAVILY concertrated with lanolin...which is most natural and useful to leather. Another point I find is no reference to silicons....not good for leather at all and not good in a paint shop...causes fish eyes...however it is profoundly sought after for detailing...at least by some....I am thus surprised in everything I have "studied so far" NOTHING talks about silicon content.....

here's my morning research if you are interested...it also has a few references to help me keep it in prospective.



WAX…I THINK

Meguiar's #26 high tech yellow wax.

s100 in the garage and I will send it to you free of charge. I use only Werkstatt and Zaino now.

Nattys Blue

I agree with the S100 and Natty's Blue recommendations. Natty's Blue is awesome on my dark blue metallic, and the Pinnacle Signature Series II is a very close match to Souveran.



For the money, I'd go with Natty's Blue or S100.

Harley Davidson dealer nearby, give S100 (P21s) a try. It's a very quality wax and only $15.

Have you used S100 or Trade Secret

How would FK1 Pink compare? How about Natty's Blue



QUICK DETAILER



Another excellent product from the Poorboy's line.... Spray & Gloss:

Taken from Poorboys Website:



I didn't want to post a review until I had gone though an entire bottle and used it on cars in different shape but now that I have, it's taken the top position among QD's I regularly use (Clearkote QS, 4*UGE, Wolfgang QD, Mother's CA GOLD SHOWTIME, Z-6)



**Strengths**



Glossiness - wow... as good or better than all the ones I mentioned above.

Slickness - about equal to 4*UGE and better than the other 4.

Usage - easy on/easy off doesn't grab, no streaking (at least using my technique)

Packaging - I like the sprayer and wish more QD's would use it. Easy to apply just the right amount. Other sprayers I use tend to spray too much too easily. I like the clear bottle too so I can see exactly how much is left and guage how much I used.



LEATHER



GRIOT'S GARAGE LEATHER CARE:

From the Griot's Garage Website:



Z-10 Leather in a Bottle:

From the Zaino Website:



Sonus Leather Conditioner:

SONUS LEATHER CONDITIONER





303 Aerospace Protectant:

Think of this as an SPF 40 sunscreen for your dash, tonneau cover and car bra!
 
Everything is so subjective. What looks good to one person, may not to another. What some claim is slick, others think is not slick enough. Ease of use of a product to one person may result in another considering it extremely difficult to work with.

Certainly, their are tests around. Guru reports did a great, methodical "Wax Test" which is out of print now but may still be found. (Zaino won BTW). Consumer Reports recently did their own test with mainly OTC products. People still disagree with both of those tests and continue to form their own opinions.

I think part of the fun of detailing is trying as many of these products as you can and finding out for yourself what you like best. I will add that as far as LSP's, most, even the cheapest OTC products will look great IF your surface if properly prepped. Prep in the form of washing, claying and polishing is THE key to a beautiful surface. The LSP is just the gravy.

Decide on what you want from products first and then look for recommendations here and elsewhere. Try things as best as you can and ultimately decide what you think. Do you want glossy or matte tires? Do you want metal flake pop or some darkening and gloss of your finish? Do you want to wax every week or every six months? Do you want to remove swirls or cover them up? Do you have or want a PC or a Rotary or do you work by hand? Too many factors come in to play to easily say one product is better than another and one method is always better than another. There are tried and true formulas for success and you will find many here. Maybe you have a better way? There are also definite ways to fail.

Too much subjectivity to state what is always best. IMO, the most important thing is that you enjoy, have fun and get you car looking the way YOU want it to look. :bigups



Eric
 
Hi Mike-in-WV...one of the basics that I've gleaned from my time at Autopia is that process > product. What that means is that if you use the proper process and have good technique, you can get good results with any product. There are very few "bad" products. It's true that there are differences, and some may be "better", but for the most part, they are more alike than different.



One thing I will mention tho is that some products are less likely to leave residue and stain trim, and those can make for less work in the long run.
 
Mike-in-WV said:
Now that I'm older and have more time I like to try new waxes and sealers and glazes and inside cleaners and tire cleaners and so on but there are so many on the market today and they all claim to be the best. Does anyone REALLY know the best wax to use? The best sealer to use? The best final detailer to use?

How do we know what finish detailer/sealer reacts the best with what wax? What do you consider a final detailer, Duragloss AW, Maguires NXT or some other product?

We also have products made by the same company sitting on the same shelf , side by side that claims to be better than it's own product! If I tried everything on the market today it would wipe out my retirement fund!
Click to expand...



You are wise. It took you less than 30 posts to figure out that the truth is, most of the products work just fine. Pick one, follow the instructions on the label, and don't look back.



Setec has it 100% right. Process trumps product every time.



2000th post; I'm glad it was this one. I've been trying to trim my advice to say the truth in as few words as possible.





Tom
 
Mike is right, using the correct techniques, the vast majority of products will give you outstanding results. What you might want to try is a few different product line as you can afford them and the time and see what works best for you.



Based on my own use and what looks good to my eyes, I recommend the following products that have given me excellent appearance and ease of use:



Waxes: Clearkote's Carnauba Moose, Meguiars #16 (out of production but a few tins are still out there), Poorboy's Natty's Blue, Pinnacle Souveran and Optimum Car Wax.



Sealants: Jeff Werkstatt's Prime/Prime Carnauba and Acrylic Jett (both standard and Trigger version), Poprboy's EX and EX-P, Meguiars NXT Paste.



QD's: I have tried several but always go back to Clearkote's Quikshine.



Glazes: Clearkote's Vanilla Moose, Red Machine Glaze, Poorboy's Polish w/carnauba, Menzerna 106FF (although I usually mix it 30% with Red Machine Glaze).



Polishes: Optimum and Meguiars 80 series.



Leather: Clean with an 8:1 ratio of water to Woolite and dress with Turtle Wax's Leather Cleaner and Conditioner.



kirkbrit-There are good and bad silicones, the vast majority of car care products contain the good silicones that add gloss and shine. Any competent body shop knows how to properly prep a car for repaint, regardless of what type of silicones have touched the paint.



Meguiars has an excellent write-up about the subject on their website.



http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=General Questions&faqQuestionID=19&section=_19#_19
 
I learned that process is important so when I got back into detailing I went to a friend who is a detailing expert and learned how to use the PC and rotary properly as well as claying the car properly. I then spent a year or so buying various products until I found the best products for the job.



So for me the best results involve both process and best products. I wish I could agree with others but I have found products vary wildly in quality and I try to find the best products as a result.



It's easy to say process trumps product but what happens when your process reaches a level of excellence? You then have the ability to judge products in a consistent manner and develop an eye for clarity, wetness, slickness, etc. Why not have both and have superb results?





If process was everything, I suspect we should require a few here to use nufinish the rest of their lives. :)
 
Here are my recommendations.



Waxes: Poorboy's Natty's Blue, Pinnacle Souveran and P21S.



Sealants: Zaino Z-2 Pro, Zaino Z-5 Pro



QD's: Z-8 for sealants, Pinnacle Crystal Mist for wax



Polishes: Poorboys SSR2.5 and Zaino Z-PC.



Leather: Zaino Z-10.



Microfiber: PakShak and Poorboys Deluxe Mega Towel
 
SilverLexus said:
If process was everything, I suspect we should require a few here to use nufinish the rest of their lives. :)
Click to expand...



A properly prepped car with NuFinish would look just fine. My only reservation would be the high solvent content that would be environmentally unfriendly.





Tom
 
SilverLexus said:
It's easy to say process trumps product but what happens when your process reaches a level of excellence? You then have the ability to judge products in a consistent manner and develop an eye for clarity, wetness, slickness, etc. Why not have both and have superb results?



If process was everything, I suspect we should require a few here to use nufinish the rest of their lives. :)
Click to expand...



As with any other field of endeavor, some detailers will never be able to make a car look good no matter what product they use, and some will be able to make a car look like a Concours entrant with simple, cheap, or OTC products, in the same way that some exotic car owners don't know how to drive and might be beaten (in a road race, say) by a lesser car piloted by a better driver.



I think the OP or anyone could be happy and keep their car looking good with some basics, and some simple products. For instance, if you go to Target, buy some Meg's Gold Class, wash your car once a week using good technique, and wax once a month with some Meg's Cleaner Wax (I think they have this at Target), after 10 years I think your car would probably look great, better than 98% of the 10 yo cars out there.



Sure, there may be better products, there are definitely differences in how products work, last, etc. But I judge my work by the results, not by the brand/cost of the product I used. And to finish where I started, the best detailers are the ones who can get results despite "inferior" products.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Sure, there may be better products, there are definitely differences in how products work, last, etc. But I judge my work by the results, not by the brand/cost of the product I used. And to finish where I started, the best detailers are the ones who can get results despite "inferior" products.
Click to expand...



So true. With proper prep, a $15 jar of Natty's Blue or $18 bottle of Carnauba Moose will be practically indistiguishable from a $70 jar of Souveran to 99% of the population.



In most cases you do get what you pay for but once you cross the $15-20 line, the differences are quite small.



The product that has given me the biggest improvement in my work is the PC since no matter what product I use, it allows me to polish the paint more deeply and evenly than I ever could by hand.
 
Thanks for all the replies and info. I do agree that a lot of this perfection from one product to another is in the eye/hand of the person applying it and has little to do with the one that is truly the best in the land.

I was real happy with using Mothers paste wax/cleaner and then using Duragloss AW. Now Duragloss has come out with another one that is supposedly better than the AW. Hard to believe but I have not read the label to compare the two additives or chemicals but I hope to soon.

If I keep filling my care care cabinet with goodies my wife is going to end up with my vehicles anyway, Lol. Thanks again guy's, Mike
 
If you are referring to 105 then it would be a base product and then top with AW. Also realize that products are often refined with the latest polymer offerings-sometimes unadvertised.
 
Yes, That new 105 is what I am referring to. They both are Polymer/Acrylic and according to people at Duragloss this new stuff gives a wetter look than the AW but the new 105 has a mild cleaner in it also. Don't see why you would want to apply the AW over something that gives a better shine on it's own? They also say they are working on another one. Oh well, My bottle of Duragloss AW is about done anyway. Wonder how this stuff will stand alone and how well it will cover/Eliminate swirls and scratches? Maybe time for some new stuff.....Honey , can I have the check book? On second thought maybe I better just buy it from my allowance,Lol. Mike
 
A properly prepped car with NuFinish would look just fine. My only reservation would be the high solvent content that would be environmentally unfriendly.
Click to expand...



With such a high solvent content I would not expect it to be durable or optically clear. Based on my experience with the product that is indeed the case.



Sure, there may be better products, there are definitely differences in how products work, last, etc. But I judge my work by the results, not by the brand/cost of the product I used. And to finish where I started, the best detailers are the ones who can get results despite "inferior" products.
Click to expand...



I never judge a product by cost or brand - Zymol taught me the idiocy of doing that. I am good enough at prep to make poor products still look damn good, but it's silly to do so. My time is valuable and I want the best look possible. Again, you use best practice & product to get the best results.



With proper prep, a $15 jar of Natty's Blue or $18 bottle of Carnauba Moose will be practically indistiguishable from a $70 jar of Souveran to 99% of the population.
Click to expand...



Perhaps but who here is in that 99%. I know I'm not. ;) :) And Scott, we know you are not given your love of the Jeff Werkstett line. Clearly you have found a good line that you find gives terrific results just like I have in Zaino and Pinnacle.



I'm not trying to be argumentative here but there seems to be a contradiction. On one hand som of you say process is everything but on the other hand you buy boutique products. Clearly product quality is important. My belief is that it is significantly important, if not as much as overall detailing skill and practice.
 
SilverLexus said:
Perhaps but who here is in that 99%. I know I'm not. ;) :) And Scott, we know you are not given your love of the Jeff Werkstett line. Clearly you have found a good line that you find gives terrific results just like I have in Zaino and Pinnacle.



I'm not trying to be argumentative here but there seems to be a contradiction. On one hand som of you say process is everything but on the other hand you buy boutique products. Clearly product quality is important. My belief is that it is significantly important, if not as much as overall detailing skill and practice.
Click to expand...



No contradiction at all, 99% of people and that would include a lot of autopians could not tell what product was used on a car (given proper prep) if they weren't told beforehand.



Besides, the key word is 'practically'. If you want that extra 5% in appearance, then it is worth buying high end products that perform. If that 5% isn't as important as durability, then Souveran is a waste of money vs Natty's.
 
Pennypacker said:
Serious question: If you're process isn't that good, can you make up for it somewhat with better quality products?
Click to expand...



If you use quality products with fillers, you can cover up average prep. However, after a few washes, usually the fillers are gone.



If you want a couple easy combos that aren't very expensive, try:



Optimum Polish and Optimum Car Wax



Meguiars #80 Speed Glaze and either #26 wax, NXT or #21 sealant.
 
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