BadgerRivFan
Keep the Blues Alive!
Could not agree more... thank you BudgetPlan1 for all of your contributions regarding coatings and your honest feedback.
Think I`m done messing around with coatings, final thoughts...
- Thread starter BudgetPlan1
- Start date
Could not agree more... thank you BudgetPlan1 for all of your contributions regarding coatings and your honest feedback.
Thanks for your reviews BudgetPlan1 and taking the time to write all this and share your experience. Yourself and Mike were very helpful when I was gearing up to do ISM which has nothing but exceeded my expectations.
All this talk of PA around here and seeing all the great results and me winning gift box of PA, master sealant, rapid wax and glissante during Esoteric open house. I can`t wait to try it on my 300SRT.
Oneheadlite
New member
As others have mentioned, a huge thanks for the feedback on everything you`ve tried on your coating journey!
Really handy to have a comparison of so many coatings in one place. I tried to start a thread for that exact reason on the sister site and never got any traction.
Really handy to have a comparison of so many coatings in one place. I tried to start a thread for that exact reason on the sister site and never got any traction.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
No comparison, Overcoat (most notably in areas that see rain) is a product without compare. If the godz of detailing allowed me only one product to use as an LSP, i`d skip waxes, sealants, coatings and go with Overcoat. I`ve seen one guy who used it (Raven on some board/forum) who used it as and LSP and got a solid 6 months out of it. Well, OK mayb not coatings but the stuff (Overcoat) is simply *that* good. May seem pricey but the 250ml bottle I purchased in May 2017 is still 1/3 full and for the most of summer I`ve been using it as a drying aid after every wash on 3 cars simply because it makes drying easier. The protection and looks (looks even better after 24hr curing) are fantastic.
Now, that opinion is based upon my location/climate and the fact that my cars see rain whenever Mother Nature sees fit. I exchanged PM`s with a forum user in Arizona who mentioned he saw no significant difference between it and Gyeon Cure...because he rarely sees rain. Still, as a sacrificial layer, I have found nothing that comes close; 22ple VS1, Gtechniq Liquid Crystal C2V3, Gyeon Cure...not even close for me. Now 22ple has been dangling their Finitura product (same type of product as Overcoat but super-charged) since last May but have seen no release yet. That`s one drawback to 22ple - the mfg is pretty much non-existent in the online world (or maybe real world as well); occasionally answers queries on their Facebook page but no website or other contact info.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if it`s the Overcoat as opposed to the coatings themselves that`s doing the heavy lifting; boy, that would sure make all my work with coatings pointless!
The one other thing I forgot to mention regarding 22ple HPC is the recommended 24hr cure time between layers...that can be kinda inconvenient.
Dan
Well-known member
I`m sure a long commute doesn`t help, but its really mother nature that pounds whatever is on top of the paint. The only way to really tell high mileage paint vs low (give all other things equal) is the rock chips. Durability figures always have to be taken with a grain of salt, or simply divide by 3 for a real car parked outside 24x7.
The Guz
Mike
Great write up and feedback.
Good to know you found something that works for you. I sort of agree with that member that mentioned that there is no distinguishable difference for us folks who don`t deal with a lot of rain or harsh weather conditions. I am currently evaluating which coating will suit my needs.
Good to know you found something that works for you. I sort of agree with that member that mentioned that there is no distinguishable difference for us folks who don`t deal with a lot of rain or harsh weather conditions. I am currently evaluating which coating will suit my needs.
Budget Plan cracks me up! He was explaining in a response to me above, about a PM from a guy in AZ. That *was me*. Ha Ha.
But what I really meant and probably didn`t say correctly, was that for Bling & Gloss, I saw very little differences between the different SIO2 maintenance products Cure and Kami OverCoat. But with Cure I only see about 6-8 weeks of durability, and Budget above said he`s heard results of 6 months. That is a huge difference and might justify the higher price. I`d still like to know about 22PLE VS1 FC in comparative Gloss and durability to OverCoat. Budget Plan is a very helpful guy I might add.
But what I really meant and probably didn`t say correctly, was that for Bling & Gloss, I saw very little differences between the different SIO2 maintenance products Cure and Kami OverCoat. But with Cure I only see about 6-8 weeks of durability, and Budget above said he`s heard results of 6 months. That is a huge difference and might justify the higher price. I`d still like to know about 22PLE VS1 FC in comparative Gloss and durability to OverCoat. Budget Plan is a very helpful guy I might add.
WashRinseRepeat
Member
Awesome review, very insightful.
Glad you found what works for you and are no longer searching.
Glad you found what works for you and are no longer searching.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Interesting...never really thought about it that way but hoods sure can get pretty toasty in summer sun; that can`t be beneficial for anything.
I`m just going off of my WG Uber which failed over the winter on the sides of the car while the hood, roof and trunk were still holding up reasonably well in terms of looks and water performance.
I guess I`m more of an optimist than yourself...i only divide mfg longevity claims by 2 for real world predictions.
Good luck with your search for a coating; it`s really interesting how many different factors go into making a coating `the best` for each individual. Kinda nicely illustrates that there really is no one answer to the universal question so often asked: `What is the BEST [insert detailing product here]?"
Which also helps explain my affinity for Overcoat; the water behavior of it is otherworldly in my neck of woods for our mostly daily drivers. And although I really like the way it looks, put it next to a similar, well maintened vehicle with another SiO2 topper and, in all honestly, i likely couldn`t tell the difference most of the time. It just excels in another area by such a margin that it moved up the ladder for me.
If one is not in need of that particular characteristic then it`s just another pretty face at a crowded dance.
Well, that`s pretty funny in a "My brain is likely addled by SiO2 and flourine" kinda way.
As for the longevity claim of 6 months, ya know how the internet can be; guy did seem credible and is still active occasionally regarding Kamikaxe though so it`s possible. May be an Aussie guy...
Yeah, not sure I could honestly tell between most SiO2 toppers just by looking at `em. Now have a rainstorm roll thru followed by sun and I could likely tell.
And 6 months I can`t speak to as I`ve never gone anywhere near that long; I used to go about a month or so before applying Overcoat with a microfiber applicator after washing and drying but have lately been using as drying aid after wash cuz it makes drying so much easier/quicker.
Sizzle Chest
Well-known member
Great info here! Thanks for posting.
kevincwelch
New member
This is a great summary. Thanks for posting your thoughts on this matter.
I haven`t tried Kamikaze coatings other than overcoat, but I have tried Mohs, and I agree with your thoughts on this. After having used Gtechniq, Pinnacle, 22PLE, Wolfgang, TAC, and PA, I think Mohs was the best all around. I have a bottle of TAC Prime that I haven`t tried yet and hope to soon.
(Sent via my mobile device...)
I haven`t tried Kamikaze coatings other than overcoat, but I have tried Mohs, and I agree with your thoughts on this. After having used Gtechniq, Pinnacle, 22PLE, Wolfgang, TAC, and PA, I think Mohs was the best all around. I have a bottle of TAC Prime that I haven`t tried yet and hope to soon.
(Sent via my mobile device...)
BudgetPlan1
Active member
GYEON Mohs Update after 8 months...
Gyeon Mohs – 2011 Ford Ranger, Bright Red
Applied 2 layers, Feb 20, 2017
Topped with Gyeon Cure, Feb 21 2017
Mileage since application approx 12K miles
Maintenance since application: None; no washing, no topping, no nuthin’
Vehicle sits outside pretty much 24hrs a day, Fleet Truck for seasonal pool company. Driven/used by staff, generally treated worse than a rental car.
Finally brought truck home to wash/check it all out. Truck has stayed clean and good looking throughout the 8 month period, among the best of the ones I was watching at staying clean.
Upon initially rinsing with hose, it appeared that ALL beading was gone from horizontal surfaces. Water just laid flat on hood and roof. To the touch, surface felt like it had no LSP of any type on it, no slickness whatsoever. A few bird bombs on hood rinsed off with a little pressure from hose. Vertical surfaces (fenders, doors and bedsides) still maintained what appeared to be slight hydrophobic behavior and just a slight amount of beading.
One area that appeared to still have initially coating present/water behavior was a small triangle below each side view mirror, first thought being that the small area was always shaded by side-view mirror…I dunno but it was a distinct triangular area on both doors directly below the mirror that looked like coating had been recently applied with respect to water behavior.
Baggie test felt like much contamination, very gritty. So, decided to try a few things:
1. Foam bath with Chem Guys Honeydew Snow Foam Cleanser at about 1:5 dilution with a MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, SunJoe SPX3001 1.76 GPM, 2030 PSI pressure washer. Let foam dwell for recommended time, 3 or 4 minutes and then rinsed with pressure washer. No apparent change to surface.
2. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe and then dry…No apparent change to surface.
3. Decon with Sonax Fallout Cleaner, saw a bit of bleeding, applied, and agitated with foam applicator pad, let dwell, rinsed with pressure washer. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, dried…no apparent change to surface visually but baggie test showed about 75% reduction in surface contaminants…perhaps even a bit more.
4. Clayed very lightly with Nanoskin Fine Grade Clay mitt during another bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, rinse and dry. Baggie test indicated very smooth surface but water behavior and feel of dry paint was unchanged…still felt/acted like no LSP was on surface. Nanoskin also left no marring for whatever that’s worth.
Generally the truck has been used and abused over the last 12K miles/8 months. Has the Gyeon Mohs held up? While it appears that the coating is gone (lack of water behavior and slickness, aside from the 2 spots under the mirrors), why does the truck always look clean and shiny? I dunno. Also, since claying with Nanoskin left no marring, is the coating still there at some level providing some protection to marring? I noticed some round stains prior to washing that indicated cups/cans/bottles were set there at some point, they easily removed during wash and tar on the rocker panels came off with much less effort than on non-protected vehicle, what gives? Again, I dunno. After using Booster, I think it might be a nice addition to a Mohs application. Doing a relatively new white Ford 150 w/ Mohs in a few weeks, think I’ll add the Booster just for fun after 2 layers of Mohs.
Anyway, I figured what the heck and after the above washing and decon I applied two coats of Gyeon CanCoat topped with an application of Gyeon Booster 12hrs later. Truck looks great again.
Other items of note:
Gyeon Foam > Chem Guys Honeydew Snow Foam, albeit more expensive
Gyeon CanCoat: Where have you been all my life? For a quick application of some protection, this stuff is just great. Applied to entire truck in about 10 minutes, great look, slick…no runs, no streaking. If this stuff lasts for even 3 months with somewhat regular maint. and the surface protection is somewhat solid, why this stuff is more popular I can’t understand. If this kinda thing woulda been available back when I was only semi-ocd about my cars, what a great option it woulda been. Due to its relatively low cost, easy application, great looks why mess around with stuff like sealants if this is available? Because of its low cost and relatively shorter lifespan, I could see applying this to a vehicle after decon/clay with no paint correction (if clay left no marring), much like many do with sealants/waxes but with the added protection of a coating. If this stuff woulda been around when I was a Zaino disciple, I woulda been far better off using it and get far better protection and self-cleaning behavior.
Gyeon Booster: This was almost as much fun (and similar low effort application) as the CanCoat. It’s a product that must be applied with a little faith and attention to ‘feel’. It flashes so quickly that you’re kinda going on faith as to where it has/has not been applied although the slickness it added immediately to surface gave another good indication as well. It added a nice bit of gloss and after letting cure for two days throwing a cup of water at the hood resulted in nice beads, most of which rolled right off the hood. The North American Gyeon rep indicated that Mohs + Booster is essentially a ‘consumer version’ of the pro-only Gyeon Durabead product, albeit slightly less ‘substantial’. I like it…kinda pricey, though. Ended up getting the Ranger covered with about 15-20ml of Booster.
Gyeon Mohs – 2011 Ford Ranger, Bright Red
Applied 2 layers, Feb 20, 2017
Topped with Gyeon Cure, Feb 21 2017
Mileage since application approx 12K miles
Maintenance since application: None; no washing, no topping, no nuthin’
Vehicle sits outside pretty much 24hrs a day, Fleet Truck for seasonal pool company. Driven/used by staff, generally treated worse than a rental car.
Finally brought truck home to wash/check it all out. Truck has stayed clean and good looking throughout the 8 month period, among the best of the ones I was watching at staying clean.
Upon initially rinsing with hose, it appeared that ALL beading was gone from horizontal surfaces. Water just laid flat on hood and roof. To the touch, surface felt like it had no LSP of any type on it, no slickness whatsoever. A few bird bombs on hood rinsed off with a little pressure from hose. Vertical surfaces (fenders, doors and bedsides) still maintained what appeared to be slight hydrophobic behavior and just a slight amount of beading.
One area that appeared to still have initially coating present/water behavior was a small triangle below each side view mirror, first thought being that the small area was always shaded by side-view mirror…I dunno but it was a distinct triangular area on both doors directly below the mirror that looked like coating had been recently applied with respect to water behavior.
Baggie test felt like much contamination, very gritty. So, decided to try a few things:
1. Foam bath with Chem Guys Honeydew Snow Foam Cleanser at about 1:5 dilution with a MTM PF22 Foam Cannon, SunJoe SPX3001 1.76 GPM, 2030 PSI pressure washer. Let foam dwell for recommended time, 3 or 4 minutes and then rinsed with pressure washer. No apparent change to surface.
2. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe and then dry…No apparent change to surface.
3. Decon with Sonax Fallout Cleaner, saw a bit of bleeding, applied, and agitated with foam applicator pad, let dwell, rinsed with pressure washer. Bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, dried…no apparent change to surface visually but baggie test showed about 75% reduction in surface contaminants…perhaps even a bit more.
4. Clayed very lightly with Nanoskin Fine Grade Clay mitt during another bucket wash with Gyeon Bathe, rinse and dry. Baggie test indicated very smooth surface but water behavior and feel of dry paint was unchanged…still felt/acted like no LSP was on surface. Nanoskin also left no marring for whatever that’s worth.
Generally the truck has been used and abused over the last 12K miles/8 months. Has the Gyeon Mohs held up? While it appears that the coating is gone (lack of water behavior and slickness, aside from the 2 spots under the mirrors), why does the truck always look clean and shiny? I dunno. Also, since claying with Nanoskin left no marring, is the coating still there at some level providing some protection to marring? I noticed some round stains prior to washing that indicated cups/cans/bottles were set there at some point, they easily removed during wash and tar on the rocker panels came off with much less effort than on non-protected vehicle, what gives? Again, I dunno. After using Booster, I think it might be a nice addition to a Mohs application. Doing a relatively new white Ford 150 w/ Mohs in a few weeks, think I’ll add the Booster just for fun after 2 layers of Mohs.
Anyway, I figured what the heck and after the above washing and decon I applied two coats of Gyeon CanCoat topped with an application of Gyeon Booster 12hrs later. Truck looks great again.
Other items of note:
Gyeon Foam > Chem Guys Honeydew Snow Foam, albeit more expensive
Gyeon CanCoat: Where have you been all my life? For a quick application of some protection, this stuff is just great. Applied to entire truck in about 10 minutes, great look, slick…no runs, no streaking. If this stuff lasts for even 3 months with somewhat regular maint. and the surface protection is somewhat solid, why this stuff is more popular I can’t understand. If this kinda thing woulda been available back when I was only semi-ocd about my cars, what a great option it woulda been. Due to its relatively low cost, easy application, great looks why mess around with stuff like sealants if this is available? Because of its low cost and relatively shorter lifespan, I could see applying this to a vehicle after decon/clay with no paint correction (if clay left no marring), much like many do with sealants/waxes but with the added protection of a coating. If this stuff woulda been around when I was a Zaino disciple, I woulda been far better off using it and get far better protection and self-cleaning behavior.
Gyeon Booster: This was almost as much fun (and similar low effort application) as the CanCoat. It’s a product that must be applied with a little faith and attention to ‘feel’. It flashes so quickly that you’re kinda going on faith as to where it has/has not been applied although the slickness it added immediately to surface gave another good indication as well. It added a nice bit of gloss and after letting cure for two days throwing a cup of water at the hood resulted in nice beads, most of which rolled right off the hood. The North American Gyeon rep indicated that Mohs + Booster is essentially a ‘consumer version’ of the pro-only Gyeon Durabead product, albeit slightly less ‘substantial’. I like it…kinda pricey, though. Ended up getting the Ranger covered with about 15-20ml of Booster.
Tc99m
Member
Re: GYEON Mohs Update after 8 months...
I`m loving on CanCoat as well.
I am 10.5 months in with CanCoat as my LSP. Holding up extremely well. Hoping to make to 12months. Then I will share all the images I have taken over the year. I do monthly maintenance and that is about it. Which is a wash and then aqua wax as a drying aid.
I will say at the 10th month wash I did notice the lower part of the fenders and driver door beading has all but stopped. Upper panels and horizontal surfaces still bead like crazy.
Daily driver driven 73-75miles round trip. Garaged at night.
I`m loving on CanCoat as well.
I am 10.5 months in with CanCoat as my LSP. Holding up extremely well. Hoping to make to 12months. Then I will share all the images I have taken over the year. I do monthly maintenance and that is about it. Which is a wash and then aqua wax as a drying aid.
I will say at the 10th month wash I did notice the lower part of the fenders and driver door beading has all but stopped. Upper panels and horizontal surfaces still bead like crazy.
Daily driver driven 73-75miles round trip. Garaged at night.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
CSL & Cquartz Update
As the season is winding down, getting a closer look at some of the vehicles coated last winter/spring.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3 after application)
- Looks like it has been driven about 13K miles since application last January/February (I think...around that time anyway)
- Probably spent about 1/3 of that time parked inside warehouse at night, otherwise sat outside 24/7
- Tech says he ran thru touchless wash, soap and spray only, perhaps 2 or 3 times this summer
This was kinda an odd one; I really liked it at application time, darkened the paint a bit, glossy, good looks...to me, it actually had the appearance of being a `hard` coating if that even makes any kind of sense. I was thinking at the time it was gonna be one of my favorites but once it started being used, the vehicle was among the worst at self cleaning ability...lots water spots after rain. However, after about 3 months it started keeping itself cleaner and now is consistently one of the cleaner vehicles among the ones I did. There are indications of water spots in the paint, even after I wiped it down with a bit of ONR...they seem to be etched (maybe stained is a better word) but only to the point where they`d likely come of with a light to medium polish. Don`t wanna give up on Gtechniq so if boredom sets in, I still really want to try the CSL + EXO combo sometime this winter. I`d guess the EXO would provide the hydrophobic/self-cleaning behavior that CSL alone lacked and prevent the staining from water spots. I really like the Gtechniq packaging which sometimes is enough to make me wanna try a product...silly but it is what it is. Forgot to to baggies test on this before he left for the day. Anyway, can`t tell much but below is a shot of the hood:
Cquartz `Classic` (or whatever it`s called, not the UK version; topped with Gyeon Cure after application)
- Looks like it has been driven about 14K miles since application last January
- Probably spent about little to no of that time parked inside, sat outside 24/7
- Tech says never washed all summer long
First impression is that the Cquartz provided a little more protection against environmental marring/staining. No visible water spotting like the bare CSL. Truck stayed reasonably clean during the past few months. Baggie test indicates very, very fine contaminants on surface. Considered the Cquartz to be a middle/lower middle contender in all this but it`s kinda moved up the chain a bit due to lack of staining on paint and very light contamination. This truck (like most of them) saw a lot of miles this Spring/Summer, likely 50-60% freeway miles. Tech that had this van had some had some far-out jobs that needed attention each week. Overall more impressed with the Cquartz than I though I would be at the end of this.
As the season is winding down, getting a closer look at some of the vehicles coated last winter/spring.
Gtechniq Crystal Serum Light (topped with Liquid Crystal C2V3 after application)
- Looks like it has been driven about 13K miles since application last January/February (I think...around that time anyway)
- Probably spent about 1/3 of that time parked inside warehouse at night, otherwise sat outside 24/7
- Tech says he ran thru touchless wash, soap and spray only, perhaps 2 or 3 times this summer
This was kinda an odd one; I really liked it at application time, darkened the paint a bit, glossy, good looks...to me, it actually had the appearance of being a `hard` coating if that even makes any kind of sense. I was thinking at the time it was gonna be one of my favorites but once it started being used, the vehicle was among the worst at self cleaning ability...lots water spots after rain. However, after about 3 months it started keeping itself cleaner and now is consistently one of the cleaner vehicles among the ones I did. There are indications of water spots in the paint, even after I wiped it down with a bit of ONR...they seem to be etched (maybe stained is a better word) but only to the point where they`d likely come of with a light to medium polish. Don`t wanna give up on Gtechniq so if boredom sets in, I still really want to try the CSL + EXO combo sometime this winter. I`d guess the EXO would provide the hydrophobic/self-cleaning behavior that CSL alone lacked and prevent the staining from water spots. I really like the Gtechniq packaging which sometimes is enough to make me wanna try a product...silly but it is what it is. Forgot to to baggies test on this before he left for the day. Anyway, can`t tell much but below is a shot of the hood:
Cquartz `Classic` (or whatever it`s called, not the UK version; topped with Gyeon Cure after application)
- Looks like it has been driven about 14K miles since application last January
- Probably spent about little to no of that time parked inside, sat outside 24/7
- Tech says never washed all summer long
First impression is that the Cquartz provided a little more protection against environmental marring/staining. No visible water spotting like the bare CSL. Truck stayed reasonably clean during the past few months. Baggie test indicates very, very fine contaminants on surface. Considered the Cquartz to be a middle/lower middle contender in all this but it`s kinda moved up the chain a bit due to lack of staining on paint and very light contamination. This truck (like most of them) saw a lot of miles this Spring/Summer, likely 50-60% freeway miles. Tech that had this van had some had some far-out jobs that needed attention each week. Overall more impressed with the Cquartz than I though I would be at the end of this.
Attachments
The Guz
Mike
Thanks for the update. I thought I read that C2V3 was prone to spotting? Maybe I am confusing it with Exo V2.
BudgetPlan1
Active member
Yeah, the CSL was/is kinda wierd; top contender after application, slipped to near the bottom once out in the wild, slowly and quietly climbing back up the ranks. Cquartz currently in better shape even though likely sat outside more all summer.
Cquartz driver took vehicle home every night, left out in driveway, lotsa freeway miles. CSL tech more suburban driving, vehicle back inside warehouse probably 30% of the time at night.
Cquartz is just kinda consistently and quietly `good` as far as performance goes.
After the Mohs peculiarities, I`m really not answering many questions with this entire escapade.
Recent additions I`m watching now are Gyeon CanCoat + Gyeon Booster on one, Gloss Shop Ceramic on the other so there`s always something going on.
Still wanna find something decent to try CSL + EXO on; there`s just something intangible about the Gtechniq brand that appeals to me.