The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

Mi Amigo, RL McCarty2000 ---

It has always been this way... Native Americans were here first, they could not withstand the onslaught of pioneers, good ones and bad ones... It ended up bad for them as a people.. We are sorry...

About every group of people that came to this country with - nothing - had a hard time at first.. Some people decided to work harder, get educated as best they could, and keep hustling to better themselves and their families, and provide for all of them...

But the thing that keeps getting - forgotten - in all of this is that all those immigrants including your own families, came in through what - the Port of Entry - ...
So they were doing it - legally -

Isn`t this - all - we want to keep happening now ?????

Watch "Hell on Wheels" sometime, to get a semi-accurate look at who helped build the first railroad from the East Coast to the West Coast.. Hint-- there were a lot of Irishmen who helped with this as well..

I was born and raised in Texas.. I had lots of family living in the "Valley", which are the cities and towns close to the Southern Border.. McAllen, Edinburg, Brownsville, etc..
Everyone, including them, would tell us about the constant flow of people coming from Mexico, through their properties at all hours of the day and night..
Why would this ever be ok ???

Have you ever had total strangers coming up to your front door, back door, garage, barn, shed, etc., at all hours, and especially at night, wanting to get in ???
How would you feel this is was happening to YOU on a daily/nightly basis ???
And what if some of those people are really bad people intent on wanting to kill you on a daily/nightly basis ???

When you hear someone trying to break into your house at night, are you thinking they are just - nice brown people - wanting to stop by and introduce themselves???

And this has been happening for what - 100 years !!!!

No matter how you want to spin it - Vanity Wall, Immoral Wall, ad nauseum, the very people we should all be supporting have said that we need the Wall to at least slow down the constant flow of people trying to get to our borders, so they can go out there and tell them to not cross...

Yes, there is still a lot of area not covered by a border of any kind, and of course, as we keep building the Wall, the people will just keep trying to get through those un barricaded places..

I have seen the Walls up close and personal at San Diego, CA. and El Paso, Texas.. The amount of traffic going through there is enormous... Yes, they have a lot of things to help them and hopefully, they will get more, better, technologies to increase their accuracy and efficiency..

Yes, we need to keep updating and utilizing better ways to catch things at these ports of entry and we are not even talking about all the Ocean ports of entry..

But please understand that they have always had a great amount of security already.. Every time I drive through California, Arizona, New Mexico, and into Texas, (for 50 years) I come to this Inspection Station, that has a huge amount of cameras, sensors, set up on both sides of the access road that all vehicles are required to go through to get to the people who ask me "Are you a Citizen of the United States?". So even at these huge inspection stations with armed men running them, Texas alone is doing a great job... The amount of cameras, sensors, etc., that all look at each vehicle before it gets to the inside of the Inspection Station is probably close to 100 or more..

And quit trying to tell us what News to watch, ok ??? Why are you worried about that anyway??

"Not on Mexicans with backpacks" -- Ok, even the ones with 40lbs of marijuana, fentanyl, cocaine, heroin, backpacks, etc., it is ok if those guys come in wherever, whenever???

Gang members ok too ??? Ever watched the grief stricken families of children who were murdered by Gang Members who crossed illegally from Mexico on your News??? Perhaps your News does not ever show you those people ???Why would this ever be ok with you???

DanF
 
Fishroes said:
Well said Anthony. Coatings, I think I might have to get out of this topic, you are using words my high school edgamacation hadn’t run across. Almalgamation. LOL!!

edit: I’ve always thought politicians are crooked as he!l. That’s why I don’t get involved
Click to expand...

Full disclosure: as I was typing the word I had to google just to make 100% sure I was using in right context l.

:words


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Stokdgs said:
Mi Amigo, RL McCarty2000 ---

I was born and raised in Texas.. I had lots of family living in the "Valley", which are the cities and towns close to the Southern Border.. McAllen, Edinburg, Brownsville, etc..
Everyone, including them, would tell us about the constant flow of people coming from Mexico, through their properties at all hours of the day and night..
Why would this ever be ok ???
DanF
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I know families with property out in west Texas. They used to leave their places all locked up but that would only mean broken down doors and busted windows cause the illegals want food, water and then crap in their toilets.

So now many of those familes leave out food and water for them. One guy said they leave a note in Spanish saying something to the effect of..."Take what you need, please do not break our windows"

That right there...insane.
 
I never said I was for illegal immigration. Put simply, a wall will not stop illegal immigration and I doubt it would even slow it down. What would slow it down is to streamline the immigration process. Anyone been to an American embassy. I have been to several in Central America and it’s bureaucracy at its finest. They have a difficult time helping Americans much less addressing applications for green cards or asylum. Spend more money addressing the problem before it reaches our borders. How about fining or imprisoning the people hiring illegal workers? That would slow up illegal immigration as our own president hires illegal immigrants to work for him.

I love Hell on Wheels. Shiploads of illegal Chinese and Irish laborers coming into this country. The West would have never been populated without them. We still need this type of worker, legal or illegal. In my area the illegal workers work in the meat processing plants and home building industry. It’s well known and no one enforces the laws. It’s not like illegals are hiding in the bushes. Go to Walmart on Sunday. If there was a $5 a head bounty I would be rich, lol.

The US has created much of this problem. We have supported puppet presidents in Central America in order to “stabilize” those countries for fear of Communism. Now that we have screwed up their countries we want to say it’s not our problem, well it is. We trained death squads at FT Benning. We provided arms to whichever side we thought was right. We continue to give money and other types of aid to those who support our vision of Central America. I lived there and worked there so I know. Google JTF-B in Honduras and ask yourself why it’s there. Do some in depth research on why people would leave their country. Most of them love their countries and do not want to leave. The US needs to quit supporting regimes that do not support US policies. Trump has said he would quit sending foreign aid to these countries but I have not seen any action.

Pull our military out of every country and let them police theirselves. It’s not our job. Use that money to fix our country. A smaller military, less military spending, and lower taxes, and a chicken in every pot! Vote for me in 2020, lol. I’m out.


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rlmccarty2000 said:
I never said I was for illegal immigration. Put simply, a wall will not stop illegal immigration and I doubt it would even slow it down. What would slow it down is to streamline the immigration process. Anyone been to an American embassy. I have been to several in Central America and it’s bureaucracy at its finest. They have a difficult time helping Americans much less addressing applications for green cards or asylum. Spend more money addressing the problem before it reaches our borders. How about fining or imprisoning the people hiring illegal workers? That would slow up illegal immigration as our own president hires illegal immigrants to work for him.

I love Hell on Wheels. Shiploads of illegal Chinese and Irish laborers coming into this country. The West would have never been populated without them. We still need this type of worker, legal or illegal. In my area the illegal workers work in the meat processing plants and home building industry. It’s well known and no one enforces the laws. It’s not like illegals are hiding in the bushes. Go to Walmart on Sunday. If there was a $5 a head bounty I would be rich, lol.

The US has created much of this problem. We have supported puppet presidents in Central America in order to “stabilize” those countries for fear of Communism. Now that we have screwed up their countries we want to say it’s not our problem, well it is. We trained death squads at FT Benning. We provided arms to whichever side we thought was right. We continue to give money and other types of aid to those who support our vision of Central America. I lived there and worked there so I know. Google JTF-B in Honduras and ask yourself why it’s there. Do some in depth research on why people would leave their country. Most of them love their countries and do not want to leave. The US needs to quit supporting regimes that do not support US policies. Trump has said he would quit sending foreign aid to these countries but I have not seen any action.

Pull our military out of every country and let them police theirselves. It’s not our job. Use that money to fix our country. A smaller military, less military spending, and lower taxes, and a chicken in every pot! Vote for me in 2020, lol. I’m out.


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Click to expand...

You are still not getting it..
That`s ok.. :)

Here is one of I am sure, a zillion examples of what people who actually LIVE close to the Southern Border deal with all the time -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kp4wkIaylQ

And another one -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOXAp7qnFN4

A n y t h i n g that will deter or slow down the illegal entry through this border is absolutely essential...

Now, put - y o u r s e l f - in that situation... Would you still not want something up to help slow this down, so you don`t have to deal with it, worry about it, hope no one tries to kill you or your family???

Yes, the Immigration process is hopelessly behind and could use a lot of help.. I believe the President has addressed that by asking for a lot more judicial support down there to help speed up the process even at the border for those asking for "asylum"...

Do you think that even if the entire "Process" gets up and running better, and it may take a few years no doubt, that in the meantime, it is not a good idea to stop, slow down, discourage, etc., the alarming amount of people
from crossing the border where there is nothing to stop or slow them down??

Isn`t stopping, slowing down - i l l e g a l immigration - part of "fixing our country" ???

Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
You are still not getting it..
That`s ok.. :)

Here is one of I am sure, a zillion examples of what people who actually LIVE close to the Southern Border deal with all the time -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kp4wkIaylQ

And another one -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOXAp7qnFN4

A n y t h i n g that will deter or slow down the illegal entry through this border is absolutely essential...

Now, put - y o u r s e l f - in that situation... Would you still not want something up to help slow this down, so you don`t have to deal with it, worry about it, hope no one tries to kill you or your family???

Yes, the Immigration process is hopelessly behind and could use a lot of help.. I believe the President has addressed that by asking for a lot more judicial support down there to help speed up the process even at the border for those asking for "asylum"...

Do you think that even if the entire "Process" gets up and running better, and it may take a few years no doubt, that in the meantime, it is not a good idea to stop, slow down, discourage, etc., the alarming amount of people
from crossing the border where there is nothing to stop or slow them down??

Isn`t stopping, slowing down - i l l e g a l immigration - part of "fixing our country" ???

Dan F
Click to expand...

Dan I get it. Pres wants to build a wall to stop illegal immigration, right? I just don’t think a wall will work as he intends for it to work. I also don’t think it’s the best way to discourage illegal immigration. I believe it is a waste of time and tax dollars based on the lack of success of other walls throughout history. He is asking for $5.7 billion which I have heard will only fund 250 miles of a wall. On top of that, the wall idea is not even concrete (a pun). The wall idea changes from week to week. First it was a “big beautiful wall”, now its a fence type thing with slats. Mexico was going to pay for it, now we are. The whole thing doesn’t make sense. A wall is too easy to defeat. We can’t even fill the openings for border guards, why don’t we just pay them more? Higher salaries would fill the positions quickly.

From what I have read the people living in border towns don’t want a wall. The people that own the land that the government is going to try to buy for nothing to build the wall are not happy about losing their land or having it divided up by a wall. I believe it is Arizona that is already fighting the wall. I have also read that border towns have very low crime rates. I know some illegal immigrants and they are not bad people. I am still against illegal immigration as we have to have some sort of policy for it to be fair for all immigrants, but our government is so screwed up no one can agree on anything. DACA was a good idea but Trump is now holding them hostage. There has to be some kind of path to citizenship for people who have been here for so long. Even people against illegal immigration get upset when ICE agents come to their town and arrest residents that have been their for years living among them with kids in school. When you actually know someone in a position where their family is being split up you feel different. These are people, not animals.

By aiding Mexico, which I believe Trumps latest trade agreement did, illegal immigration will slow. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but it has slowed over the past few years on its own. Everyone was making a big deal about convoys coming up from Honduras, but that news faded away after the mid-term elections. Fear mongering and race baiting. I thought Americans had finally got past that phase, but it seems racism was just biding it’s time. We always fear what we don’t know.

I don’t think a wall will be built. I believe there will be some negotiation where Trump will get a win and the Dems will get a win on DACA. You’ve been around for awhile you know if we budget $100 billion for a wall there will be cost overruns that will triple the cost and then there will be the wall maintenance budget. It’s a damn tarbaby. I’ve been involved with government contracts and if you ever want to get rich just get a government contract. Whatever the original contract is for it will change and every change adds more money to the contract, it never ends. I abhor fraud, waste, and abuse and government contracts are full of it. Less government is a good thing, not more.

I’m not going to convince you that the wall won’t work. We can’t even stop people from coming through border crossings with guards and walls and I just can’t see why anyone would think a wall by itself would do much good at all. Cubans get here and there is 90 miles of water between us. Are we going to wall off Florida? I still believe we should penalize the people giving jobs to illegal immigrants and then you would see a drop in immigration, but that will never happen because those people have money and power. There are better solutions than building a wall but it impacts the wealthy. If they sent all the illegals home many towns in the south would completely die off. There would be no one in the chicken processing plants and agricultural products would rot in the fields. We need a certain amount of legal immigration and the laws need to reflect that need. Even when we let people in with green cards it’s extremely expensive for those people to become citizens.

It’s funny, when I was a platoon leader in Germany I had soldiers from Ecuador, Romania, Nigeria, Mexico and they were all trying to become US citizens and we thought it was great when they got their papers. America was built on immigrants backs and it still is to a large extent. But we can’t figure out how to best use this labor force. We want to send back millions of people to their countries of origin. I guess it’s always been that way. I’m Irish on both sides and I hear how bad it was for the Irish when they came to America. Now the next wave of immigrants has to pay their dues by being persecuted. History always repeats itself. Take it easy brother, it will all work out. I’m too old to worry about this stuff.
 
Mi estimado hermano Rlmccarty2000,

We all read what we want to read; that`s fine...

For example, I read of dozens of people at a time, who die in those Border Towns every night.. Cartel violence... The number of deaths in Border Towns due to this violence is in the thousands a year...

People who live/lived close to that border (including my Parents, GrandParents - both sides, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, Siblings), had to deal with illegal immigration since the 1800`s - 1900`s, are they also wrong???

It seems like all the "experts" who denounce this and call it of all things - immoral - have N E V ER lived close to this border, have never been down there to see it, and have no family, contact, whatsoever with it at all in their entire lives... And while they tout the "other things" that can be used instead, when pressed for the actual "things" they speak about, they have nothing to bring to the table...

Do they actually - think - that "sensors", "drones", etc., are actually going to - S T O P - people from crossing illegally????

Reality check - we have already been utilizing sensors, drones, etc., down there for a long time... Again, they only help the Border Patrol people by alerting them that people are now - there - close to the wall, and then we have to get out there to stop them...

So, who is going to do all the work that we brown people do??? What about all those able bodied welfare recipients who I see in the Walmart I have to shop in, purchasing way better food (and much more than I can afford), have to put in so much work equal to the amount of welfare they receive every week???

My Church is very happy to supply basic food, meat, milk, eggs, bread, canned goods, to anyone in dire need, anytime.. But they also tell these people that they need to come and work at one of our canneries, our farms, storehouses, etc., to help pay back for that food, etc... And it is not a strict, immovable, mathematical number of work hours, not an exact science, etc., instead, you come work a little for that help, and we will all be good...

And when this happens, people on assistance do not continue to lose their self esteem, etc., they instead regain what they have lost, they see that they can help again, they can see the results of their labor, they can be part of a team, and eventually get to like this.. Perhaps even get into a Church, any Church, and now have something to place their hopes and faith in. And if they really want to, they pull themselves out of their dire situations and become little by little, whole again...

All the Aid we give to countries that are run and controlled by Cartels will never help... Do you agree with that? No one really knows for sure, where that Aid goes,, right?? Until those countries, and this of course includes Central America, South America, and Mexico somehow get off the Cartel Payroll, and actually eliminate these most evil people, there will always be conditions in those countries that will be driving these people north..

I am sorry that it was so hard on your families, RL, when they came to America...

I cannot think of anyone who ever lived here before and after the Israelites, Native Americans, the Vikings, Columbus, the Spaniards, the Pilgrims, Pioneers, etc., who did not go through some really hard stuff..

What I DO know is that when any of these people obeyed God`s Commandments as best they could, they were blessed with generations of Peace and Prosperity.. And then, when they then became "puffed up" in their own selfishness, actually thinking they alone were responsible for all their wealth, peace, etc., and forgot to acknowledge where these blessings came from, then bad people came by and overran them, and the whole process, eventually, started again...

I hope and pray - every day - that the bad people part does not have to happen (to us) again...

Dan F
 
Kennedy: Things are about to get ugly in Texas over the wall
By Lisa Kennedy MontgomeryPublished February 19, 2019OpinionFOXBusiness


Kennedy on the border wall: Texas homeowners will fight to keep their land
FBN’s Kennedy on how President Trump declared a national emergency to fund his border wall and how the wall will affect Texas homeowners living by the southern border.

The president Opens a New Window. got a little money for his beautiful wall, but things are about to get ugly in Texas where private property owners are going to fight like hellbound honey badgers in order to keep their land.

The president was able to narrowly avoid a government shutdown by resentfully taking the tepid $1.375 billion congressional handout, but now that he`s declared a national emergency and is breaking D.O.D. and DHS piggy banks he feels emboldened to break ground as well.

Here`s the problem with a government taking: sometimes private landowners aren`t always in a mood for giving. If you`ve had your land for a couple hundred years, you`re probably not inclined to just sign your birthright over to Uncle Sam for a few pesos on the dollar. It`s a pretty subjective process figuring out land value, but if your family name and identity are inextricably linked chances are you`ll hold onto what`s yours even if it means a lengthy court fight.

The president has, best case scenario from the legislation and emergency declaration, 8 billion dollars to spend on the wall. That`s just for the wall building part, not the land buying with 2/3 of border land in private hands, the Feds are going to have to write enough big checks to make the process unsustainable.

And while rich landowners can afford a team of lawyers and brokers to shiv the government for higher payments, regular people will be pretty screwed with very little recourse.

Not to mention the government taking property from private individuals is wrong, what if this precedent means a future lefty president tries to do the same thing with even *more* private property to build wind and solar farms? Both causes, immigration and climate change, are built upon emotional hysteria designed to whip people up and scare them into separating from their money and land.

Emminent domain cases are not quickly settled. 20 percent of the e.d. cases stemming from the *2006* secure fence act are still in legal limbo, and only adding to that legal stockpile seems fruitless and futile.

Texas is ready to fight, and the distraction this heartless thievery will soon eclipse the false urgency for the wall as poor little old people being stripped of their homes will be a highly exploitable piece of counter-propaganda.


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I might get flack for this but as tech guy who is classic libertarian, Andrew Yang has my Vote, if you don`t see why you REALLY need to understand where the economy is heading. We are at a crossroads with technology and employment.
 
Wondering how far a good patrol security along the border that is effective would reach with those 8 billion dollars? It is crazy amount of money. From an outside view it seems that it is prestige that makes the president to push for the wall. With a better border control and administration of immegrants. You create a lot of jobs too. It took us in Sweden too long before we got a border control and administration of it to have some control over it. Then it slowed down massively and the other countries around stopped shipping a to high amount of immegrants our way. And started to take some own responseble. But it`s sad to see all the people suffering from the war in Syria. The amount of people in the refugees camps all around a country where it`s nothing left of it to live in. Is so large that it`s hard to wrap your head around it. And in the camps it`s going to get worse and worse with nobody don`t know what to do. The war will still takeing deadly victims even if IS defeated. But with sickness and health issue from the situation they have in the refugees camps.
 
The Driver said:
We are at a crossroads with technology and employment.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking about that this morning.

SWETM said:
Is so large that it`s hard to wrap your head around it.
Click to expand...

I think that`s half the problem in the world, we are unable to grasp the scale of things. With 7+ billion people on the planet, there is an enormous scale. Here in the US we use 385 million gallons of gasoline A DAY. If you lined up all the tanker trucks to carry that, end to end, they would stretch for 345 miles. I don`t think anyone can really visualize how much gasoline that is.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I was just thinking about that this morning.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it`s scary. AI, Machine learning, Software thats replacing actual physical hardware and computing power itself not just multiplying but growing in exponential power we are in a very interesting time. Crazy part is both parties seem to be missing this issue. I could go on for hours as I`ve really done my HW on this and have experience but I`ll save it for another day.


Setec Astronomy said:
I think that`s half the problem in the world, we are unable to grasp the scale of things. With 7+ billion people on the planet, there is an enormous scale. Here in the US we use 385 million gallons of gasoline A DAY. If you lined up all the tanker trucks to carry that, end to end, they would stretch for 345 miles. I don`t think anyone can really visualize how much gasoline that is.
Click to expand...

No but climate change isn`t on us, UNFORTUNATELY. I really wish we were the contributors but we are about 15% total an thats being generous, China and India are well over 70% of the total emissions. At this point we need to dedicate the majority of our resources not at reducing our emissions but find a way to catch and reverse this problem. At least thats my logic, I know China will not stop until there own rivers are on fire.
 
I was just saying in general we don`t grasp the scale of things...everybody has a milk carton or two in their refrigerator, so how many cartons or jugs of milk are made every week, 100 million? We still have the Anheuser Busch brewery here in NJ, but we used to have some other smaller ones, once I talked to a guy who worked in an attached aluminum can plant, and he told me how many cans they made there a day, and I laughed at him because I thought he was pulling my leg when he said they made a million cans a day there. I later found out that was a pretty small can plant, to my chagrin.
 
I gave Trump credit for doing one thing I agreed with, pulling troops out of Syria. Now he has flip-flopped on that “decision”. We are now not pulling our 2,000 men and women out of harms way. Always include our service personnel in your prayers.

Until we have a defined role role in the mid-East the US has no business there. The troops don’t know when to engage the “enemy” or who is the enemy. Soldiers are not policemen, they are trained to kill and capture and hold territory when necessary. Peacekeeping is the UNs role.
 
The Driver said:
Yeah, it`s scary. AI, Machine learning, Software thats replacing actual physical hardware and computing power itself not just multiplying but growing in exponential power we are in a very interesting time. Crazy part is both parties seem to be missing this issue. I could go on for hours as I`ve really done my HW on this and have experience but I`ll save it for another day.




No but climate change isn`t on us, UNFORTUNATELY. I really wish we were the contributors but we are about 15% total an thats being generous, China and India are well over 70% of the total emissions. At this point we need to dedicate the majority of our resources not at reducing our emissions but find a way to catch and reverse this problem. At least thats my logic, I know China will not stop until there own rivers are on fire.
Click to expand...

How do you know it’s a problem that we should reverse and not a natural cycle?


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