The time has come!

TW85 HHI said:
I agree with tdekany that you are looking at cars that will rape you in repair costs, especially considering what you're looking at for your budget (90s BMWs with, I have to assume, high mileage).
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I agree, as much as I like german cars (BMW, Audi, etc.) I think everyone will pretty much agree, maintence and repair will be really hard on the wallet. German cars also don't seem as friendly to work on then say American or Japanese. When looking under the hood of my friend's BMW 3 series, it was all covered with plastic. This would make a 30 minute, $15 buck oil change turn into a visit to the dealer and make you shell out some serious money just for an oil change. I suggest you check out carpoint, edmunds and fuel economy.gov to compare reliability, gas mpg and prices on some of these cars.

http://autos.msn.com/default.aspx?src=autolink

http://www.edmunds.com/

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
 
Stay away from BMW, Mercedes, Audis, and to a lesser extent anything from Lexus.



These cars are very expensive (even wickedily expensive) to maintain. Even a Lexus, while they are arguably more reliable than a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi the parts can even be more expensive. You can spend several thousand dollars on a 5 year old Lexus every year for repairs, most people don't know that. Even arguably a Volkswagen, my mother got rid of her New Beetle because she didn't want to pay the expensive repair costs and couldn't find anywhere to service it (Audis/VWs have expensive diagnostic equipment compared to other companies).



At this point I'd buy something new or ALMOST new so you have a warranty to play with. Get some numbers on a base Scion tC, I bet you can get one under 15k. Maybe try using a car broker. 3 years 36k worth of warranty where all you'll have to do is change the oil.



You're only young once, you want to have fun in college not have to worry about where that $2500 power steering pump is coming from.
 
MongooseGA said:
Does anyone know of a good, solid, reliable car that can be fun to drive? ...



-Insurance needs to be as reasonable as possible.



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Like TW85 HHI said. Any late-model German luxury sedans in your price range are likely to have high mileage and been driven hard/put away wet. Good and solid, yes. Reliable? That may be up in the air. Perhaps the price is low for a reason... It does you no good to have a stylish, prestigious Euro-car that spends one week out of every eight in the shop because the previous owner didn't treat it right. BMW parts are EXPENSIVE.



I think you're on the right track with the RSX. Despite the fact that I am a die-hard Toyotaphile, I think Honda has a great product line and manufacturing ethos. Finding a low-mileage one in your price range may be difficult, though; a $14.9K RSX may not be in exactly the best condition. You may want to consider:



1) Mid-late '90s Acura 2.5TL. 4 doors, decent trunk, Made in Japan quality, useable (by real adults) rear seat, sweet Honda double-wishbone suspension at all 4 corners, longitudinally-mounted 176-hp inline-5 engine, and I think a number of them were available with a 5-speed.



2) 1994 and up Infiniti G20 Touring Edition. This spans 2 model generations, with the newer body style appearing in 1999, if I'm not mistaken. 4 doors, brilliant handling, well-bolstered sport seats, a little smaller than a TSX. Tough-as-nails SR20DE engine. Lots of mods available, predictably.



3) 1993-94 Toyota Camry SE. The 5-speed was available until it was replaced with an automatic-only in 1995. 185 hp, AND the shorter final-drive ratio from the Lexus ES300, enabling mid-15-second quarter-mile times. Note, the 5-speed/V6 combo reappeared in the 1997-98 Camry, which looks particularly handsome with the TRD bodykit. All the room you'll need.



4) Mid-90s Lexus ES300. Like driving a really nice Camry that girls your age would like. No 5-speed, though.



5) Mid 90s Lexus SC300 5-speed. Rare rare car, they are usually found with autos. However, I hesitate to recommend the more technically complex Lexuses to people on a restricted repair budget, because even though the cars are reliable (engine/tranny-wise), the little eelctrical repairs will KILL you at the Lexus dealer. (e.g. new power window master switch panel, $275.00) :eek: .



6) Toyota Celica, 2000 and up.



7) Any adult-owned, maturely-driven, low mileage mid-90s N/A Z32 or Supra. I'd stay away from the Turbos, for reasons of expense and technical complexity. Supra might be out of range, price-wise.



8) S14 (1995 and up) 240 SX.



9) After all is said and done, it's hard to beat the older double-wishbone suspension Hondas/Acuras. Especially if you're going to drive "spiritedly"/autocross. A late 90s Civic or Integra, or even an Accord, is a satisfying car to own, and will have a minimum of maintenance-related issues. Plus, most will be cheap to insure for someone in your demographic (unless you're looking at an Si/GSR/Type-R).



Sorry to chime in so late, and good luck with your hunting!
 
92MX83 said:


4) Mid-90s Lexus ES300. Like driving a really nice Camry that girls your age would like. No 5-speed, though.



5) Mid 90s Lexus SC300 5-speed. Rare rare car, they are usually found with autos. However, I hesitate to recommend the more technically complex Lexuses to people on a restricted repair budget, because even though the cars are reliable (engine/tranny-wise), the little eelctrical repairs will KILL you at the Lexus dealer. (e.g. new power window master switch panel, $275.00)
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Ehhhh be careful here. Come over to the LOC, us.lexusownersclub.com and read around Lexus cars are great, I love them, but they are not inexpensive to maintain when they get older, even ES300s. There are cheaper avenues that we have access to and we do discounts and things like that, but its not like repairing a Toyota.



For one thing there are some issues we're seeing on the mid decade ES300s including transmission failures between 100-120k. Apparently this transmission lacks a real tranny filter, it has a mesh type media that allows large particles through causing transmission failure unless strict maintenance procedures are done.



For another thing, although this is more a problem between 97-01ES300s (and anything with that motor, INCLUDING 97-01 Camrys) these engines have a horrible sludging issue unless (and even if) the oil was changed religiously every 5k miles. The engines will sludge and neccesitate complete engine replacement even before 100k miles if the oil hasn't been changed regularly. Lexus extended the warranty until 80k but you have to prove the oil has been changed every 15k or something like that.



SC300s don't have any inherant issues but the whole SC line is pretty rare and parts are very expensive compared to the ES (who'se parts aren't cheap).



Just be careful.
 
GoodnClean said:
You can spend several thousand dollars on a 5 year old Lexus every year for repairs, most people don't know that.
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Have Lexuses gotten THAT bad?:eek:



Friend #1 has a 1990 LS400 he has owned for 5 years. In that time, he has replaced the aforementioned power-window switch, the front brakes (pads and rotors) for $600 (ouch), and the A/C system for about $2,000 (double ouch). Other than that, just minor stuff like tracing a sunroof rattle, tires, gas, oil changes, and scheduled maintenance. On an old car like that, it's not surprising, and I doubt a comparable Mercedes would fare as well. On a 5-year old Lexus, $everal thousand dollars a year is simply unacceptable.



Friend #2 just sold her 1990 LS400. In the 4 years she owned the car, she had an A/C repair for $1200. It probably could have used a new power window switch panel. The accelerator pedal fell off and got lost. The tachometer wasn't working. And a couple interior lights weren't working. That's about it.



I guess it's true when they say they don't make them like they used to!:nixweiss
 
GoodnClean said:
For one thing there are some issues we're seeing on the mid decade ES300s including transmission failures between 100-120k. Apparently this transmission lacks a real tranny filter, it has a mesh type media that allows large particles through causing transmission failure unless strict maintenance procedures are done.



For another thing, although this is more a problem between 97-01ES300s (and anything with that motor, INCLUDING 97-01 Camrys) these engines have a horrible sludging issue unless (and even if) the oil was changed religiously every 5k miles. The engines will sludge and neccesitate complete engine replacement even before 100k miles if the oil hasn't been changed regularly. Lexus extended the warranty until 80k but you have to prove the oil has been changed every 15k or something like that.
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I echo the "be careful" warning.



I was not aware of the tranny problem these cars have, thanks. The A340E in my Cressida and my friends' LS's have performed flawlessly all these years, and I just assumed (break that word down, fellas) the ES used the same tranny and associated bits. My mistake.



I am, however, familiar with the unfortunate oil-sludging issue in the MZ-series engines. Hopefully you can find someone who went ahead with full-synthetic and did his/her oil changes every 3,000-5,000 miles like any enthusiast would have. I have a co-worker and the aforementioned Friend #2 who owned V6 Camrys well-past the 120,000 mile mark who had no sludging issues due to their near-religious maintenance practices.



I also have a friend whose mom is busily destroying her beautiful 2001 ES 300 by not changing the oil; she ignores the dealer's phone calls, claiming she doesn't have time to take it in (she does run three Chinese restaurants), and the fact that the car is still running okay only serves to reinforce her mistaken opinion that the car is simply a reliable tool, like a scissors or something. She did the same thing with her 1986 Celica, and didn't change the oil ONCE for nearly six years, then sold it to a gypsy family. The oil wasn't even oil anymore. It was the color and consistency of soy sauce. Crazy people...:rolleyes:
 
If you peep a 2000-2001 Maxima SE, here's what to look out for:



a) Ask if certain Technical Service Bulletins have been done. The main one is when the hood starts catching air around 65+ mph.



b) Be careful where you park it. A33 Maximas (Actually 2002-2003) are on the hot list in certain parts of the country.



c) Keep a paint chip pen, Langka, or touch up paint handy. You'll DEFINITELY need it. The paint on these cars is VERY prone to chipping. If you find one in good condition, get a clear bra for it IMMEDIATELY!



d) Anniversary Edition Maximas STILL command a high premium.



e) You can get a GXE or GLE but the tradeoff would be a softer ride and softer handling.



Also consider the 1998-1999 SEs. 2002 - 2003 Maximas are quick but they are out of your price range.
 
GoodnClean said:
For another thing, although this is more a problem between 97-01ES300s (and anything with that motor, INCLUDING 97-01 Camrys) these engines have a horrible sludging issue unless (and even if) the oil was changed religiously every 5k miles. The engines will sludge and neccesitate complete engine replacement
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Perhaps you know something I do not but the actual percentage of engines that have sludging problems is very low (significantly less than the number of Hondas and Acuras plagued with transmission failures). Last I read, and I admit it was about a year ago, the number was around 3,500 failures out of over 3.3 million vehicles.
 
92MX, its not a "bad" thing per-say, its just the cost of the parts more than anything. Power steering pumps, struts, brakes, everything is expensive on these cars. Obviously it makes a difference if you use the dealer or not, but they're hardly cheap to maintain.



No, from what I've seen they're not made like the originals. They're still very reliable and refined cars, probably the most reliable and refined cars in their price bracket but it seems like with each succsessive redesign they take a few more liberties and remove a few more redundencies. There's a guy on the LOC board who had a 90 LS400 now he has a 00, he tore down both to install cell phones and he says the differences in the quality of their construction is pretty stark.



TW85- It is very small, and the % of the transmission failures is even smaller but its growing as that model range ages. Just something to be aware of.
 


TW85- It is very small, and the % of the transmission failures is even smaller but its growing as that model range ages. Just something to be aware of.
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There have been more transmission failures across the Honda and Acura lines for fewer cars than engine failures for Toyota. 500,000 Hondas and Acuras cars and 600,000 light trucks are included in a recall but the number of failures is 20,000-30,000 (both original trannys and refurbished trannys failing again). That is a 2-3% failure rate versus Toyota's .1%.



Agreed, something to be aware of.
 
GoodnClean said:
Yes, this is definately true. Honda/Acura has had a HUGE problem with that trasmission.
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Yeah, I drive a first gen TL (2.5 Inline 5, not the 3.2 V6) and the second gen guys are always crying about tranny failures. I got my 97 with 125k miles for $6000. The first gen's don't have sticks though, I don't think I have ever heard of one with a stick. The legends (similar platform) had a manual though.



I echo the thoughts of others around too, do your research, don't look at just the price, take into account the repair bills and parts prices when things go wrong.



It's awesome to see someone gratefull for their parents paying for their car instead of the typical kids. Granted, I got my first car from my mom, and it died (95 volvo 850 with 175k) and so I got a new car. My parents pay the insurance, but everything else is left up to me. I have never got a penny for payments, gas, or repairs.
 
GoodnClean said:
Yes, this is definately true. Honda/Acura has had a HUGE problem with that trasmission.
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I agree with that. My sister has an 02 Accord V6 that has a failing transmission. The 2002 models weren't included in the recall, but I was reading up on the transmission problems before she bought it and encouraged her to get the extended warranty. Of course, it could also be the way she drives. :rolleyes:



But back to the original post. I think the Scion tC would be a good choice. It is more expensive than you want to spend, but since it has a warranty, you won't be paying for repairs that may be needed when you get a used car. It's also got a lot of nice features and should have a lot of mods available should you want/need them. The RSX/Integra is also a good choice as Honda makes some of the best FWD cars around. They're also relatively reliable, all my friends who have one don't have any problems. I also would stay away from most used German cars. While a lot of them are trouble free and built very well, there a few that show problems after a few years.



Ultimately, it's your decision and all the previous posts have been good suggestions! Make sure to keep us updated on what you get and show us the results after you detail it!
 
And really and truly, there is something to be said for getting a new car vs something used even if it is "nicer". Especially since you're going to keep the car a long time (16 now, out of college at 22 thats at least 6 years, plus you may want to go to grad school and might not want a car payment for a few years out of college. You'll have expenses to pay you're not used to and trust me, a car payment even if its only $300 or so is a significant expense when you're coping with rent and grocery bills). Thats my advice. A 98 BMW is going to be 13 years old when you're out of college.



Scion Tcs with some equipment are 17k, I bet you could get one for 15.
 
I have a surprise for you guys.



You'll have to wait a short while for the report, then I'll tell you. Ya'll may or may not be as exctited as I am, but then again...



Ah, patience is a virtue ;)
 
You can get a '99-'00 Mazda 626 5 speed for around $7500-9000 in excellent condition. Decent acceleration because it is a light car.
 
Scott, any good forums on the 626 I can check out?



I'll drop everyone one (1) hint a day unil I see if it goes through or not.



1st clue: Driven an average of 4,000 miles per year :D
 
MongooseGA said:
Scott, any good forums on the 626 I can check out?



I'll drop everyone one (1) hint a day unil I see if it goes through or not.



1st clue: Driven an average of 4,000 miles per year :D
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I don't like to be teased!:mad: :mad: :mad:



Just tell us! :D
 
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