The Problem with Lexus

MongooseGA said:
Didn't it? Maybe I'm thinking of the Japanese model.
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You go and try to buy a Lexus there. :p



Your ideas are nice if the market was MongooseGA and his clones, but nobody that's buying a regular Lexus wants to be associated with that scene/group/stuff... I think they made Scion for people like that, and they should use the new brand.
 
Corey Bit Spank said:
You go and try to buy a Lexus there. :p



Your ideas are nice if the market was MongooseGA and his clones, but nobody that's buying a regular Lexus wants to be associated with that scene/group/stuff... I think they made Scion for people like that, and they should use the new brand.
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OK, well, the Toyota version in Japan :p



You're probably right, but every car has it's aftermarket crowd/following. Hell, a Buick Regal has a huge racing scene.
 
About 5 years ago I looked at a GS because my brother had purchased an LS and I wanted sometthing a little sportier. After my test drive, I drove an Audi A6 and thought this is really a much more nimble handling car.. Then I drove the BMW 530i and was hooked. Drove like a go-kart. I was so hooked on this ride that 2 years later I ended up with an M3.



If I were to purchase a Lexus sedan it would be for the comfort, and it would be the LS. My wife has an RX 330, and it is one comfortable nice vehicle.



I recently test drove the new Acura RL, the Audi A6 3.2, the Infinity M45, and the BMW 545i. Styling aside, the BMW is lightyears ahead as far as handling and overall driving experience is concerned. I have serioully thought of trading in the M3 for the 550i to come out in the fall, a 360 HP beast with M-type numbers. But, then again, I like to look and dream. I am also anxious to see the new 3 series.
 
I was recenly discussing with the wife again over a new sedan and have decided to put off the purchase for a little while.



The Avalon being faster than the GS is somewhat sad but amm I the only one who thinks a car doing 60 in 8 or less is fast enough?Of course, the more the merrier.



It's lack of horsepower most likely.



The 3.3L can pull to 60 in about... 7.4 seconds that's not bad.
 
Under 7 seconds just sounds slow.



Really, how often do you read magazine articles on new cars where the writers are in awe of heart stopping 0-60 times of 7 seconds?



Never.



Unless they're driving the new Excursion or something.
 
Magazines in general really have a way of embellishing things.



I don't even know how Automobile is still around, let alone Motor Trend. Ack. And Car and Driver is getting all cute with their writing too. Road and Track is pretty good it seems. I mean how many superlative comparisons can they use in one article? It gets very tacky.
 
But thats my point, Lexus does not want or need to take buyers from Acura, they already handily outsell Acura, have much better brand image and recognition than Acura, and have better resale than Acura. Why would Lexus want to move downmarket and compete with the RSX when it could jeapordize thier brand recognition AND devalue the brand by making a "Lexus" too readily attainable? Not a smart business decision. They have Toyotas to compete with the RSX.



The Acura does not have close to the reputation Lexus has. People put Lexus in the same sentance as BMW and Mercedes, they cross shop them. Infiniti is doing better, but nobody seriously into luxury cars would look at an Acura. I considered an Acura for about 15 minutes until I drove one and then drove the Lexus. Acura makes a good car, but its no Lexus or BMW etc. The only reason I considered it was because it cost $10,000 less. I bought the Lexus however because I liked it better than comparable offerings from Benz and BMW. Thats a huge difference.



The main point is, who cares what Road and Track says. The truth is in the pudding, Lexus sells more vehicles. The demographics are getting better. I think with the more mature IS capturing young 3 series, C class and A4 buyers they're moving right in the direction they need to be. Each model they've rolled out has appealed to younger buyers than the model before and sold even better. Toyota is threatening to taske over the #1 carmaker in the world title from GM. Thats pretty huge. Toyota doesn't mess with success.



Corey- As of 2006 Lexus is coming to Japan.



Check it out: http://lexus.jp/
 
Lee, you should buy a Boxster today, but that has nothing to do with Lexus and 0-60 numbers!



FWIW, the Boxster is not a big numbers car either, and to some degree they do artificially restrict the output to make sure that Boxster sales don't tempt anyone who has $70k burning a hole in their pocket to buy a 911.



With regard to BMW, I recently bought a 2001 330i which has identical 0-60 numbers as my Boxster. It's a nice car, but no way does it inspire me to drive. I miss the Boxster and can't wait to get into another sports car. Its all about the balance and control, and effortlessly diving into a corner instead of hammering around in it in a sports sedan.



-Charlie
 
GoodnClean said:
But thats my point, Lexus does not want or need to take buyers from Acura, they already handily outsell Acura, have much better brand image and recognition than Acura, and have better resale than Acura. Why would Lexus want to move downmarket and compete with the RSX when it could jeapordize thier brand recognition AND devalue the brand by making a "Lexus" too readily attainable? Not a smart business decision. They have Toyotas to compete with the RSX.



The Acura does not have close to the reputation Lexus has. People put Lexus in the same sentance as BMW and Mercedes, they cross shop them. Infiniti is doing better, but nobody seriously into luxury cars would look at an Acura. I considered an Acura for about 15 minutes until I drove one and then drove the Lexus. Acura makes a good car, but its no Lexus or BMW etc. The only reason I considered it was because it cost $10,000 less. I bought the Lexus however because I liked it better than comparable offerings from Benz and BMW. Thats a huge difference.



The main point is, who cares what Road and Track says. The truth is in the pudding, Lexus sells more vehicles. The demographics are getting better. I think with the more mature IS capturing young 3 series, C class and A4 buyers they're moving right in the direction they need to be. Each model they've rolled out has appealed to younger buyers than the model before and sold even better. Toyota is threatening to taske over the #1 carmaker in the world title from GM. Thats pretty huge. Toyota doesn't mess with success.



Corey- As of 2006 Lexus is coming to Japan.



Check it out: http://lexus.jp/
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Nice. I agree with you exactly. Acura hasn't seperated itself enough from Honda, at least not nearly to the level that Lexus did progressively during the 90s. That's their achilles heal, and until they recognize that nobody wants to buy a 50k honda accord no matter how nice the interior or how great the AWD system is, they won't be taken as a top contender.



Lexus doesn't need to move downmarket. :nixweiss I would think that would help to reverse everything they've gained in 15 years. I don't understand why BMW feels the need to.
 
If you talk to a lot of analysts they're concerned about BMW and Mercedes moving downmarket and it reflecting poorly on the brand. Look at what happened to Jaguar, the X Type and extensive fleet selling to rental car companies etc destroyed their image completely.



I think the hatchback C240 is a huge huge mistake. If you can buy a Mercedes for $23000 new, why would you want to work your whole life to buy one for $80,000? Most people don't know the difference anyways so why not have the $23k one now? Now, when you've had these inexpensive Mercedes for a few years and you can afford to spend $80k...where do you go?



Whose to say Lexus won't be viewed as the more prestigious car in 15 years because they have a higher pay to play price? Or who'se to say it won't be some other company?



You simply should not shop a Mercedes in the same bracket as a Toyota or a Kia. Thats just an extremely poor business decision. Thats like Rolex coming out with a $200 watch. People used to work their entire lives with the dream of owning a Cadillac. I think Cadillac is the perfect example of what can happen when you don't pay attention to your brand image. Cadillac became the car of the age-d and the uncool, and then with the Cimarron it became purely a pretender.
 
lol Cimarron. Let me tell you, that was the best move Caddy ever made...



If only they came out with a turbo and notchy 5 speed SPORT edition!
 
"No way Lexus is targeting Porsche owners, it would be a complete waste of resources. Like others have said the two companies are polar opposites, Lexus is targeting Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar owners etc."



Steve, I think you missed my main point-they are targeting those wanting a more performance oriented car and I do think the Porsche Boxster would be included. It is in the right price range and has similar features in some ways with the GS and SC. I've read two automobile mag stories about Lexus not wanting to concede the market to BMW or others for younger buyers.



"I do find it interesting that you're concerned about performance figures and you drive an ES, I love my ES but its not sporty or fun to drive at all."



Actually I find it very fun to drive. I just want more performance in my next car. This is my second ES so obviously I am quite happy. :)



The other proof of Lexus interest in Porsche AND Ferrari owners is the new high performance sports car due up in 2007.
 
"Lexus doesn't need to move downmarket."



I think people are confusing things here-I am saying they are moving sideways to pick up luxury performance drivers, no RSX types or similar car types.



In some ways, Lexus has to pick up the professional class who has the money to buy BMW because if they hook a 3 Series buyer, they may be an LS buyer in the future followed by maybe the big $100K+ sports car or vice versa...



By the way-the other problem with Benz is the Smart Car-talk about destroying a luxury brand. As if the Chrysler purchase did not do that already...
 
I do think the IS and ES are very underpowered. I do understand's Steve's point about part throttle power and Lexus does a good job on that but if you need to beat the car next to you to the on ramp, you need full throttle power.



My car has decent full throttle power for a small V6 (2.5 liter) but the throttle response isn't that great so it really only feels quick if I give a healthy stab to the throttle
 
GoodnClean said:
I think the hatchback C240 is a huge huge mistake. If you can buy a Mercedes for $23000 new, why would you want to work your whole life to buy one for $80,000? Most people don't know the difference anyways so why not have the $23k one now? Now, when you've had these inexpensive Mercedes for a few years and you can afford to spend $80k...where do you go?
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There doesn't seem to be any shortage of people standing in line for the Maybach's or the MBZ 65 cars or SLR's or AMG's.........
 
SpoiledMan said:
There doesn't seem to be any shortage of people standing in line for the Maybach's or the MBZ 65 cars or SLR's or AMG's.........
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Given the price of those cars that is a line most people, myself included, CANNOT afford to stand in...so I'd say it is a VERY, VERY short line.



My guess is that most of the forum members can't afford to stand in that line either.
 
What I'm saying is that I don't think the Chrylser *takeover* or the fact that they sell the C hatchback has watered down the top of the line image. Some other factors have hindered their quality however.
 
Gotcha...



It seems like most luxury brands have had reliability issues the last few years. Lexus is a noteable exception.
 
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