The Problem with Lexus

SilverLexus

SilverLexus

Super Enthusiast
I got up this morning and read the latest Car&Driver (April 2005) and it made me mad because I realized a serious flaw with Lexus, a brand I love due to great products and customer service....



The GS300 is just too slow. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. Boo! While fast historically, this is simply not keeping up with the times for a car they call "passionate". Let's look elsewhere in the issue. New BMW 3 Series - 5.6 seconds! and it's a few grand less.



Then the killer happened - I read the Toyota Avalon review: 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. What the heck is Toyota thinking!!! :confused: An Avalon is faster than a GS! No sale.



They need to make these Lexus cars much faster or people like me will go buy a Porsche Boxster or a BMW. I'm thinking seriously about the Boxster now.



Hopefully we will see much better numbers when they review the GS430.
 
I agree. I just read that article last night and I was shocked at the poor performance numbers. Lexus seems to be aiming at BMW and Mercedes with this new agressive styling, why didn't they back it up with decent power? The 430 will bring more to the table, obviously, but it doesn't make sense to me that the base engine has such poor stats. Oh well, they always redeem themselves somehow, so we'll wait and see.
 
In my opinion, Lexus doesn't aim for drivers seeking blazing performance. They have built a market on drivers who want extraordinarily comfortable and reliable vehicles that will reach their destination in a hurry. When Lexus tells its consumers how "fast" the GS is, they are telling their customers and not the general populace.



The typical driver doesn't consider a four-door Lexus...or a Porsche Boxter. While they are both motorcars worthy of accolades, they are nowhere near the same genre of automobile. This isn't a personal jab, just saying that when Lexus runs design CBA, they don't figure you in as the benchmark customer.



Perhaps I'm not as jaded, but sub-seven second 60 runs are still pretty fast for me:nixweiss I'm more impressed with highway passing speed and the Lexi I've driven has that category wrapped up.
 
Lee,



I agree and disagree with you depending on the point being made. I highly doubt the same buyers that are looking at the new GS will also be considering a Porsche Boxter. Completely different vehicles that certainly do not make for a fair comparison.
 
I don't think Lee is trying to compare the GS to the Boxter; just trying to pooint out that if a Lexus can't deliver the kind of fun he expects, he'll go buy a Boxter.



Lee, don't feel bad. My car is a 4.0 V8 and it's supposed to run 0-60 in like 6.9 seconds I think. The quarter is 15.3.



Also consider this, the people looking for performanc ein a GS are not going to buy the GS300- atleast not in my family. If they want performance, then they'll obviously buy the faster model.
 
While most consider Lexus competition for BMW, I'm not sure that is completely accurate. A friend of mine is in the market, so he and I went to both dealerships. He at first wasn't interested in Lexus, but after sitting in the new GS, he considered a Lexus. It wasn't for its engine or styling, but for its refinement. The interior was extremely comfortable and the ride was quiet. He'll probably go for the 530i becuase he wants the sport.
 
"I highly doubt the same buyers that are looking at the new GS will also be considering a Porsche Boxter."



My understanding is that Lexus is going after BMW drivers and Boxster drivers based on what the car mags are telling me. This is a change in strategy for them but one they need to capture more young professionals - a key market for the long haul.



They simply need more horsepower. I am hopeful for some better numbers on the 430.



I expect they will up the hp by the time my lease is up in 2007 but I would buy a Boxster today.
 
I can understand Lexus targeting BMW buyers but how do they expect to attract Porsche buyers? Every Porsche has an entirely different focus in design.
 
TW85 HHI said:
I can understand Lexus targeting BMW buyers but how do they expect to attract Porsche buyers? Every Porsche has an entirely different focus in design.
Click to expand...



I can understand it. Some people aren't always looking for a specific kind of car. Example: Me.



When I was car shopping, I looked at Ford Super Duties, Acura RSX's, Mistu VR-4's, Dodge TT Stealths, Diesel Rams, Jeeps, WRX's, 944's, 928's, ITR's, 540's, M3's, etc...



I would have driven any of them. They each are the best of whatever categories they are labeled as. To me, as long as the car was good at something, I could find a way to have fun with it.
 
The new 3 series is also a bit smaller than the GS, no?



Those aren't bad numbers. I wasn't expecting a whole too many Lexus owners to clear their Friday night plans so that they can go race their cars.
 
No way Lexus is targeting Porsche owners, it would be a complete waste of resources. Like others have said the two companies are polar opposites, Lexus is targeting Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar owners etc. Even the SC430 isn't designed to compete with a Porsche. Young professionals yes, but not all young professionals want/could have a Porsche. I'm young and can afford these cars, I'd like a Porsche but I just can't have one because its not compatible with my lifestyle. My dad has always said his first purchase when he retires will be a 911. What does he drive now? An LS430. He's never considered a porsche when he's shopped because they're just very different.



To most buyers comparing a Porsche and a GS430 is akin to comparing an SC430 and a Sequoia. Not done.



As for Lexus and performance they've always been behind in the performance numbers. What you have to realize is that 0-60 times aren't the be all and end all of performance or driving fun. A lot of times two cars can feel very much the same even though their performance figures are different. You have to weigh how you drive when determining performance, 0-60 is done at WOT, I don't drive at WOT much, niether do most people. Some cars like the Honda S2000 that have great 0-60 figures are sluggish when driven around town because all the power is in the upper bands.



Lexus has said in press releases that they are unwilling to participate in the HP wars. Their units sold and market share keep increasing and increasing, so they must be doing something right.



I do find it interesting that you're concerned about performance figures and you drive an ES, I love my ES but its not sporty or fun to drive at all. Its probably the most boring Lexus to drive because of the FWD. Even the LS is more neutral and peppier. I love it, but I'm really weird for my age. My next car will be the new 2007 LS probably.



Lexus DOES have some big plans with hybrid technology and special high performance models coming out soon though.
 
Lexus really doesn't realize the underground drift seen they have with the 1st gen SC's and the currect IS cars, do they? If they offered a car like that with more power out of the hole, they'd do so well at it.
 
They're paying for the IS's now...



I'm sure there are plenty of young business owners who will pay for a nice street car that they can modify as easily as any Honda.
 
But if they're going to modify it anyways why buy it already "sooped up"?



Its not always a good business decision for a car company to build a car a certain way because a few buyers do things to them in the aftermarket. SOME buyers may pay 30k for the IS now, but would they pay say 40k for one already upgraded that they're going to turn around and modify on top of it? Probably not. Wouldn't make any sense. Some people may be buying the IS' new but my guess is most of the tuners pick them up 2-3 years old. They already designed the current IS to appeal to a youthful market with boy racerish looks and a great engine with tons of mod potentials and it was a huge flop. MOST people that buy these cars buy them and drive them out of the box, and aren't interested in taut lightweight (and hard riding) suspensions and high revving high tuned engines. Thats a niche, and Toyota as a principle rarely engages in niche marketing.
 
People who buy cars like this buy them if they're fast.



Example: Any F-Bod, SRT-4, Turbo DSM's, Mustangs, etc...



They buy a car that's no slouch from the factory, but they modify it to make it *their own*.



If a young person wanted a truly quick car and was going to pay for it and leave it stock, they'd buy a Porsche or something similar.



Dodge has done extremely well with the SRT-4 because they actually encourage the buyers to modify it. Dodge has done even better because the modifications for the SRT-4 are primarily made by Mopar and won't void the factory warranties.
 
But F Bods, SRT-4s, DSMs, Mustangs are much cheaper and in a different class than a Lexus and can't be compared. Lexus has to decide if they WANT to go after that market. They don't, and their marketing to this point has shown that. Toyota has cars to appeal to that market, look at the Scions there's going to be huge growth for that division. Why would they want to take Lexus there?



You can't take indications of cheaper domestic and foreign car companies doing well with certain models and attribute that to Lexus being successful there. They may sell cars but what would the effect on the overall brand be? Look at what having low market cars like the RSX does for Acura, sure it moves units but serious luxury carbuyers don't take the brand seriously. Totally different buyers, Lexus doesn't want their cars cross shopped with fancy Neons and Mustangs.



Lexus is the #1 luxury car company in America for like the 3rd or 4th straight year, they need to be more concerned with MAINTAINING that then growing their already large units per year movement. Much more than they do now and they'll seriously risk devaluing the brand.
 
Dang Steve, I was going to write more of my opinion on this subject but you took the words right out of my mouth...er, hands.



And FWIW, which may be very little, a 6.9 second 0-60 is hardly sluggish.
 
That's true, the cars I mentioned aren't completely comparable to Lexus,



All the cars I mentioned appeal to certain [insert stereotypes here]. A Lexus that competes with the RSX might seriously sway buyers from Acura. IMO, Acura has still managed to keep a respectable image with it's other cars. They do, however, tend to build their cars more for sport (see RSX, TSX, TL).



If Lexus opened a seperate performance division like MazdaSpeed, M, AMG, SVT, SRT, etc... then they could market it to whoever they want. Benz and BMW have been building world class sports cars for years.



I know for a fact that the 1st gen. SC400 owners are hurting for an aftermarket. The SC3 gets everything because it shares a drive train with the N/A Supra.



BTW, I've recently begun to look at advertising more in depth. I kind of have to for my marketing classes. I've noticed that the Scion big-wigs are not only very ballsy, but also very, very smart. They take the car's weakness (the fact that it's painfully slow) and they make that it's focus when advertising. They market it towards the Fast and Furious crowd as a [quote from a local commercial] High Tech Movin' Machine [/quote]. They've done very well for it.
 
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