The lemon list
- Thread starter boywonder
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Iconoclast
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Jngrbrdman said:
Actually jngr the website says the number is " a ratio of the number of complaints for each vehicle to the sales of that vehicle" . In other words that number is the ratio. Therefore the Honda and the Aztec are very close in complaints/vehicle sold and that means a whole lot more total complaints for Honda.
Quickstrike
New member
My dad still has a '82 VW Scirrocco.. Albeit a little louder then when first bought it still rides like new.. Never replaced anything on it!!
The interior is looking pretty awefull but the mechanical objects still work like a dream :up
Also had an 87 Jetta for awhile.. Everything worked great until my sister got into a car accident :nixweiss
The interior is looking pretty awefull but the mechanical objects still work like a dream :up
Also had an 87 Jetta for awhile.. Everything worked great until my sister got into a car accident :nixweiss
Correct, and hence there should be no reason to be surprised to find Honda Civics on the list.
Originally posted by Jngrbrdman
I don't believe that Honda deliberatly goes out there intending to make junk. [/i]
I don't think any manufacturer sets out to build junk intentionally.
Originally posted by Jngrbrdman
Every other car I see on the road is a Honda out here. You can gauge the value of a car by how many ugly ones you see on the road. I see more ugly 15 and 20 year old Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus out there than any other car. That says something about the reliability of them.[/i]
Come on down to Texas and you'll see pickups, domestic. Those numbers are often the product of the number of vehicles sold. From every report I've read that would be a Ford F-150.
Originally posted by Jngrbrdman
I'm not about to get into a debate about imports being better than domestics or the other way around..[/i]
Nor am I. My current favorite vehicle is my '96 Volvo 850GLT with 140+K miles. In addition to the Volvo, I own a '91 S-10 Blazer (driven by Son), the aforementioned '98 Civic (driven by Daughter), '78 Datsun PL620 King Cab pickup, and am the caretaker for my F-i-L's '96 Ford T-Bird.
Just as important as the lengths you go to defend Klasse products(which BTW I have just purchased AIO)
Again, I purchased what I had hoped to be a very dependable vehicle for my teenaged Daughter, and I have been disappointed. Therefore, it did not surprise me to find the Civic on the "Lemon List".
Edit: Well, aren't I smart. I somehow managed to include some of my comments in with Jngrbrdman's
hondaguy2582
New member
Sure, any car manufacturer will cut corners, but at least honda, toyota, nissan, mazda, and subaru don't cut them so much as where they have quality issues and lose their customer trust. I have a honda civic(the best d*mn car I've had), have a honda harmony riding lawnmower that gets used periodically, but it starts right up, doesn't sound like junk, and gets the job done. Also have a pressure washer made by honda, have had it for over 15 years and have yet to see it fail me. Have a new honda jetski(f12x aquatrax 4 stroke turbo 165 hp) and i have over 130 hours on it with absolutely no problems at all. I had a 1993 mercury cougar before, and i blew a headgasket with no hard driving(thanks ford for fixing it 9 years after), 900 bucks down the drain. That car was maintained also, but i was dissappointed that it had to happen to me. The point I am trying to get at is any car can last and be maintained, but hondas and the other jap cars parts are made to last double the length of most if not all domestics. I paid about $15,600 for my civic, and I definitely get my money's worth out of it. Only domestics even worth buying anymore is a sports car or a truck.
VetteToVair
New member
hondaguy2582 said:
Can you provide a link or something?
hondaguy2582
New member
It was on cnn a couple of months ago.
Jngrbrdman
New member
well, I've got an Integra which did NOT make the list, so I don't know why I'm defending Civics either. I'm just pleased that Honda is only on that list once and Acura isn't on there at all. There were only a couple who didn't get mentioned more than once. I'm off to go defend Klasse some more. Nobody can accuse me that I don't have my priorities straight. :bigups
I'm just pleased that Honda is only on that list once and Acura isn't on there at all. There were only a couple who didn't get mentioned more than once. I'm off to go defend Klasse some more. Nobody can accuse me that I don't have my priorities straight. :bigups14 American, 7 Japanese, 3 German... interestingly, not a Korean make.
Honda has really moved upscale over the past few years. The precise fit and finish of the 2003 Accord rivals most vehicles twice the price. The interior is incredible. As far as flimsy body parts, Hondas do well in the IIHS 5-MPH bumper tests. I only wish that Honda can add some emotion to their perfection.
Mr. Clean said:
Honda has really moved upscale over the past few years. The precise fit and finish of the 2003 Accord rivals most vehicles twice the price. The interior is incredible. As far as flimsy body parts, Hondas do well in the IIHS 5-MPH bumper tests. I only wish that Honda can add some emotion to their perfection.
Jngrbrdman
New member
Which cars are Korean?
Jngrbrdman
New member
wow. That is interesting. Do we know what model year these cars are being reported from? Is it just from 2003 or further back?
imported_Intermezzo
New member
Jngrbrdman said:
I seriously hope you were joking.
For what it's worth, I think Honda generally makes good quality cars, but they really laid an egg with their current generation Civic. I've owned one for just under three years now and I can wholeheartedly say that it's a POJ...
-Driver's seat rocks back and forth
-Suspension squeaks so loud, it's actually embarrassing when driving by a pedestrian
-Very 'jouncy' ride (small dip in freeway would lift my whole body off the seat)
-Rattling noise whenever I hit 2500 rpm
-Stock shocks lasted about 8k miles.
-Exterior rubber trim is very prone to falling off
-Brakes are unresponsive for the first "inch" it's depressed
-Rear deck rattles
there were several other problems but can't recall them right now...
I've gone to the dealer several times for this....even printed out the numerous TSB's to help the dealer fix these probs. I think I made about ten trips to get most of these fixed.
I'm thinking of selling this car within the next year or so (guess I won't be able to sell it on Autopia though!). This is will definitely be the first car I won't miss after selling it.
Prior to that, I owned a Lexus IS300 (another POJ), however I had very good experiences with both the first and second generation Integras.
Wife drives an e46 and we haven't had a SINGLE problem with it....not even a minor one.
hondaguy2582 said:
And your personal experience and or statistics can substantiate this statement? I will say that currently I am considering the purchase of a Subaru Forester. Though my current research has found some satisfied Subaru customers, but they have their fair share of distracters (owners current and past) as well. The Subaru is also not a big seller.
I'm sure it is, but just exactly how many vehicles can we count in this comparison?
Interesting statement, very dubious, but if you can provide specific documentation, I would like to see it.
I'll give you a specific instance where this was not true. In 1989 I purchased a Plymouth Voyager minivan. I was highly suspicious of Chrysler products and their durability especially interior components based on friend's past experiences. But, I bought into the hype of Chrysler being turned around and it had a Mitsubishi motor in it. I thought that even if the interior fell apart, at least I would be able to drive down the road. Long story longer, after the paint fell off, a rebuilt motor and transmission, the interior looked brand new
Between scheduled maintenances, unscheduled repairs and replacement of normal wear and tear items it cost me far more to keep that vehicle moving down the road that the original purchase price.Now I have had many domestic vehicles that have gone much further with many fewer repairs than that Japanese powered vehicle.
I have to say that I'm not really surprised by all the problems Intermezzo has with his Civic.
I've been really disappointed in the quality of Honda cars lately. I think that quality control in their N.A. plants has gone downhill. The cars are still very well engineered (well, except their auto transmissions) and engines are still very reliable but the rest is way below their standards of the past.
I think I was lucky and the last Accord I owned ('99 EX V6) was well built car and the only major problem I had was transmission but my friends and family were less fortunate. My buddy's Acura TL is a nightmare with numerous problems with transmission and suspension and my brother-in-law's Odyssey is just a rattle can with trim pieces falling off and there are more examples.
I hope that there will be some changes at Honda otherwise I'll never buy another vehicle from them.
I've been really disappointed in the quality of Honda cars lately. I think that quality control in their N.A. plants has gone downhill. The cars are still very well engineered (well, except their auto transmissions) and engines are still very reliable but the rest is way below their standards of the past.
I think I was lucky and the last Accord I owned ('99 EX V6) was well built car and the only major problem I had was transmission but my friends and family were less fortunate. My buddy's Acura TL is a nightmare with numerous problems with transmission and suspension and my brother-in-law's Odyssey is just a rattle can with trim pieces falling off and there are more examples.
I hope that there will be some changes at Honda otherwise I'll never buy another vehicle from them.
Mr. Clean said:
My 1990 Accord has 263,000+ miles on it. The original a/c compressor made it to 240,000 miles, the interior is just now showing some signs of age (mostly the driver's seat) and looks better than most new GM products with respect to layout and material quality, still handles great (despite still riding on the original struts), the paint still looks good and the body panels line up real nice.
I've had some problems, the alternator went out at 176,000 miles
but the ignition system is nothing to right home about, in fact, that is really the only sore point I've had with the car. It still has the original starter and fuel pump, btw. Probably going to get a Maxima next though. I want a V6 and I do know that Honda had problems with the automatics in the V6 Accords.
Mr. Clean said:
In my case, a lot of cars. 1971 Chevelle, 1977 Olds Cutlass (with a 455 I swapped into it and I guess you can count the donor car, a 1973 Olds Delta 98), 1974 Camaro Z/28, 1979 Pontiac Sunbird, 1979 Toyota Celica, 1985 Toyota Celica and now my Accord. Overall, the Accord has been the most reliable and trouble free. 2nd place? My Z/28. In the year and a half I had the car, I only replaced the starter but the engine was using some oil.
I'll give you a specific instance where this was not true. In 1989 I purchased a Plymouth Voyager minivan. I was highly suspicious of Chrysler products and their durability especially interior components based on friend's past experiences. But, I bought into the hype of Chrysler being turned around and it had a Mitsubishi motor in it. I thought that even if the interior fell apart, at least I would be able to drive down the road. Long story longer, after the paint fell off, a rebuilt motor and transmission, the interior looked brand new
Misubitshi motors are well known for using a lot of oil when they get old. I can't begin to count all the Galants and Diamonte's I've seen driving around with a cloud of blue smoke behind them.
I think it depends on the brand. My Chevelle, Cutlass and Z/28 were all decently reliable, but the Sunturd was horrible, along with the Citation and Delta 88 my (now ex) wife had. Both my Celica's and my Accord have been pretty reliable, especially since I've taken each one well past 200,000 miles.
BW said:
Daewoo auto is gone. My friend had one and the engine died 1 yr after they bought it brand new. They were screwed since it was about the same time their auto division was shutting down.
Possible reasons for Kia, Daewoo, Hyundai not being in the list:
-not enough car owners. They might have a minimum # of car owners to be considered. I do see a crapload of Kias, though.
-the models are too new? not enough data?
Scottwax said:
We're on our third, all genuine Honda replacement parts btw. The first lasted @ 2 years, the second just over a year.
This being our first Honda, I can't speak with any great knowledge or background, but can you really compare build quality of Civics and Accords?
Don't miss the Eclipses. For that reason alone, I'll likely not ever own a Mitsubishi (would say never, but that is a long time). That said, I'm sure there are many satisfied Mitsu owners out there.
Don't see a correlation to brand in your example, 8 GM branded vehicles?
I've owned:
'63 Ford Falcon
'65 Ford Galaxie 500 (convertible with one of the best paint jobs I've ever had)
'69 Mercury Cougar (HOT! factory and not modded)
'74 Ford Pinto (wife's had it when we got married. Still a better car than the '98 Civic in body, paint, mechanical. Though would never pass the "cute factor" of my Daughter)
'75 Mercury Cougar (bought it to replace the totalled '69. Disappointed. too heavy not enough ooomph. One mechanical problem (can't remember what it was) after the warranty expired. Ford covered 1/2)
'78 Datsun PL620 King Cab P/U (bought it new, still have it, 'nough said...OK, I'll admit besides the Plymouth, it was the worst paint job of them all, and yes the body parts could be likened to a tuna can)
'82 Ford Escort
'89 Plymouth Voyager minivan. (already discussed this POJ)
'91 Chevy S-10 Blazer (140+k miles, some minor interior issues, and the inherent GM V6 (4.3L) ring problems, but a very decent vehicle)
'96 Volvo 850 GLT (I love this one, build quality, paint, mechanical.)
'98 Honda Civic EX Coupe (ummmm...)
and my F-i-L's
'96 Ford Thunderbird (solidly build, a little too heavy for my tastes, but with 100+K it has proven to be very reliable and reasonably inexpensive to keep on the road.