the best detailers.... Shout Out!!

[Ronkh]

:bow:bigups :yay:lmfao:rofl. You're right! I'm sorry. Congratulations on being THE BEST DETAILER ON THE PLANET!assout:

Thank you :yourrock

 

[jaybs02]

THANKS

I suggested Police cars only because in most major metro areas their fleets are usually run through a harsh tunnel/brush wash and could always use a good detailing, also shows the skills of the detailer on not only black, but also white as well as decals and areas that are hard to get to with a machine polisher. Also allows for cloth seats, motors, wheels, tires, lots of interior cracks and crevices for the french fries, coffee and doghnut sprinkles to hide in.

Might also be nice to have a few extra badges around for, as we are starting to see, this could get ugly :lmfao

Better make sure that the badges check their guns at the door. :rofl:rofl :lmfao :lmfao

 

[David Fermani]

At next years Detail Fest, have Auto Geek rent out a bunch or nasty dark colored rental cars. Each detailer entry fee will offset the price paid on the rental car. Allow the detailer contestants to spend all day Friday working their magic and have a professional panel judge each vehicle based on how well it is returned to new OEM condition or better. Fillers are allowed. Greasy interiors and engine conpartments are not. Vote me in as a contestant and/or judge.

 

[Ivan Rajic]

I'm making this post just to publicly apologize if I've said anything out of order and offended anyone. I already sent a PM to beemerboy apologizing for any cheapshots I took at him, and we've agreed to disagree on certain points.

The reason I took those cheap shots is because I felt offended by the fact that he was saying my 'true colors were showing' insinuating I was here to argue with him and everyone else showing my ego, etc. The fact of the matter is, while I love to argue a point in a civil manner if I feel strongly about it, such as this one, I have no ego (especially not from the damn Autoweek article haha) and I don't think I'm better or worse than anyone(until someone's client comes to me to fix their job, then I can't help but feel better), I simply disagreed with the idea of the competition, especially with it coming from this thread, as it seemed that certain detailers simply wanted to, as beemerboy said it, kick the detailers on the Autoweek list to the curb...

Obviously that means he, among with the OP and I don't know who else (doesn't matter), thinks the list is worthless and none of us on the list deserve it. I can only speak for myself, but that list was just a cool advertising tool that I did feel proud of because it showed I have respect from my peers who think I do good work. Do I really think I'm one of the top 9 detailers? No I do not, I've said that already. Do I think I deserve to be on the list? Yes I do, but that doesn't mean I think someone else doesn't, it just means that I am very proud of my work and my clients are always more than satisfied with the results.

The other fact here is that no one on that list showed any type of elitist egos, etc. to warrant the creation of this thread and take crap publicly for showing off. If someone started bragging in an elitist manner, I would've felt like the OP...don't know if I'd be making a thread or whatnot, but I would feel like someone's bragging over something that's not concrete.


As for the actual competition, after giving it even more thought, the reason I'm against it is pretty simple... there would be just too many variables to judge a detailer properly.

First of all, David just mentioned use of fillers is to be allowed, which defeats the purpose of the polishing process and cuts a 10hr polishing into 4hrs.

Second, polishing, IME, is the most important thing of a detail and one which is hardest to learn/master. Everything else is pretty much an easy task to learn, from cleaning/conditioning leather to cleaning the wheels. Being more important, would polishing get a higher score on the judgement sheet, say wheel cleanliness is 5% while paint clarity and shine and perfection is 30-40%?

Third, I honestly have no clue how a judge would ever be qualified to judge such a competition. They would have to be an expert in every field possible, from polishing, to exhaust cleaning, to engine detailing, etc.

Fourth, and most importantly, there's just no way to get cars in the same condition, and even if different cars were given different rankings (1-10 on the cleanliness scale or something like that) who has the right to look a car over completely and give it a ranking. It would be nearly impossible to do. The only way I see this happening is brand new cars that have just been sanded with 1000 grit coming from the factory and only doing a polishing competition. Exhaust tips get dirty differently, so do wheels, etc. etc.

Lastly, I honestly think this is possible, anything is possible. However, I don't see who's willing to organize a group of 'qualified' individuals to come up with all the rules and regulations, as well is raise money for some sort of prize at the end to a few people who place in the competition. I would not take off 2 weeks or more from work, lose money and respect from my clients who'll think I just want to help my ego, unless a competition was organized, funded, etc. etc. perfectly.

However, if this was an event of 20-30-50 detailers going at it for 15-20 in a huge warehouse with people learning from each, etc, then yes I'm all for it. I'd even use my own products and tools if airfare, food, etc. was paid for. That would be a fun thing to meet a bunch of others all over the country as well as teach people a bunch of different detailing techniques hands on. If this happens, put me on the list.


I hope this clears up any misunderstandings and explains why I said what I said (which wasn't actually bad, other than toward beemerboy, who I wish had a different name so it'll be easier to argue with him haha... I have a bimmer too). I've been nothing but helpful on this forum and actually had a satisfied client who's a long time member here (Joe) a few weeks back. Hopefully I'll get to fix up his Caddy's exterior soon as well. I wish to continue being helpful as well as learning from this forum but jabs like this one at my skills and reputation are not necessary or justified, especially since I never showed any ego and simply disagreed with this competition.

:cheers:

 

[David Fermani]

First of all, David just mentioned use of fillers is to be allowed, which defeats the purpose of the polishing process and cuts a 10hr polishing into 4hrs.

Assume that this is a competition and the only thing that matters is the final finish. Just like a real world car show, if a finish that looks better because a filler is used more power to you. Nobody will be doing IA wipedowns & they're not client vehicles. If you use a filler and there's still defects noted, you've then defeated the point. Again, we'd only have 1 day to prepare, so the chances of doing a full wet sand with full 4-5 step correction, the interior & the engine are pretty slim unless you allow multi person teams.

 

[Ivan Rajic]

Assume that this is a competition and the only thing that matters is the final finish. Just like a real world car show, if a finish that looks better because a filler is used more power to you. Nobody will be doing IA wipedowns & they're not client vehicles. If you use a filler and there's still defects noted, you've then defeated the point. Again, we'd only have 1 day to prepare, so the chances of doing a full wet sand with full 4-5 step correction, the interior & the engine are pretty slim unless you allow multi person teams.

That's the issue here, everyone's making their own assumptions and it's going 50 different directions. Fillers would easily defeat the purpose of polishing because a 3-step polishing would look the same as a 1-step with M105/PFW when topped with a glaze and/or wax with a lot of oils/fillers...

 

[GearHead_1]

That's the issue here, everyone's making their own assumptions and it's going 50 different directions.

Sorry but this one seems like a no brainer. Wouldn't the sponsor/s determine the criteria for their contest. If the contestants don't approve they don't have to play this round. As far as the judges go, every car show ever held had a bad judge/s in the losers minds. This just isn't that hard.

 

[dr_detail]

Thanks for your words Ivan, And let me set the record straight I have not questioned in any way your ability to market your skills, nor have I put into question your detailing abilities. I have detailed concourse winning vehicles, trophey winning hotrods, preproduction prototypes, daily drivers, boats, semi's, motorcycles, planes and used cars up to wazoo (I even detailed a Blimp). I have worked on just about everything except a train (if anyones got a 4-4-4-0 out there let me know). Over the years I have attended many a car shows, meets, rallies, cruises, etc. I worked the auction floors at Hot August nights, taking cars that wouldn't fetch 5K on one day, spending two hours with them to see them run back through the block and fetch 20K. I know I know my stuff. I have put in my time. I never got a byline when vehicles I prepped were on covers of magazines, bilboards, TV commercials, or in the hands of thousands of autoshow attendees. I got a great satisfaction out of knowing that I did the work. I see at shows on the placqards: body by, paint by, interior by, stero by, chassis by, motor by -- but I can't recall when I have seen "Detailed By." Allot of my satisfaction came from hearing someone who didn't know me or what I do talk about how crystal clear that pannel or hood is when they had no idea that I spent 4-6 hours colorsanding the drips and pits from an enebriated painter. Yet I keep doing what I do day in and day out. I have humbly sat by and watched Meguires take credit on TV for a vehicle I prepped when the only product used was the #34 for keeping my pads moist and dustless. I was taught from old school detailers how to lay down a swirl free finish before foam pads became mainstream. I was part of the test crew to evaluate clay long before Auto Magic sued MarkV over it's distribution. Those of us who have been around will know what it is like removing rail dust without it. When I see these "best of listings" it appals me that they are not open to all. So Kudo's to you for being at the right place, at the rite time, and knowing the right people. That is the secret to many's sucess. Just like the judging at the LA Roadster Show though (formerly Oakland) with all the diffrent types and styles how does one decide which one is "The Best" -- yet it happens. How do they decide which vehicle is the Best Of Show at Pebble Beach with so many catagories and diffrent makes and models -- yet it happens. They do this not by just sitting down and writting an article but by competition. They seek out the best from the thousands who enter. They set a criteria. They seek out those who know to be the judge. Many of the judges have their nails dirty. Anyone from anywhere can enter their vehicle (pebbel beach is a little more selective) and the more awards you have certainly helps get you in, but the final award goes to the best via judging. So keep up the good work, and don't loose site of those who came before you, or those who will come after. And if this Top Detail competition ever happens, you will see me there -- I look forward to it

 

[Poorboy]

A lot of my satisfaction came from hearing someone who didn't know me or what I do talk about how crystal clear that panel or hood is when they had no idea that I spent 4-6 hours color sanding the drips and pits from an enebriated painter. Yet I keep doing what I do day in and day out.


I was taught from old school detailers how to lay down a swirl free finish before foam pads became mainstream. I was part of the test crew to evaluate clay long before Auto Magic sued MarkV over it's distribution. Those of us who have been around will know what it is like removing rail dust without it.


don't lose site of those who came before you, or those who will come after.

amen brother :bow:bow:bow:bow

 

[Troy@Protekt]

I'm loving how the attitude is changing for the better on this thread. Thank you for showing your maturity and being respectful.:bigups

We all like to think we are among the best detailers in our area at least (I know I do).

I am very satisfied with putting out quality details with 90% paint corrections that only take me 3-4 hours to complete. I'm confident without time constraint I could correct a finish as well as any detailer out there. Does that put me among the best detailers I believe so and that's what counts to me.

As Ivan said though, I can see being on that list as an awesome marketing tool and I am jealous of that.

:kick:

:gotcha:

 

[GearHead_1]

I'm loving how the attitude is changing for the better on this thread.

Troy, mine hasn't changed. I still think this could be a good thing.

 

[Ronkh]

As Ivan said though, I can see being on that list as an awesome marketing tool and I am jealous of that.

:kick:

:gotcha:

Well, since I'm only a hobbiest, I'll sell my crown/title.

Troy, you haven't replied about me using your car and tools when I come down.

 

[David Fermani]

That's the issue here, everyone's making their own assumptions and it's going 50 different directions. Fillers would easily defeat the purpose of polishing because a 3-step polishing would look the same as a 1-step with M105/PFW when topped with a glaze and/or wax with a lot of oils/fillers...

I seriously & strongly doubt a 2 step w/ 105+PFW>>>glaze will look the same as a 3 step correction, but I'm up the challenge. :drool:

But hey, if it's a contest where the end result is all that counts, it doesn't matter if you wipe the finish down with kerosene & motor oil if it looks the best.

I was taught from old school detailers how to lay down a swirl free finish before foam pads became mainstream. I was part of the test crew to evaluate clay long before Auto Magic sued MarkV over it's distribution. Those of us who have been around will know what it is like removing rail dust without it.

Now you're speaking my language. Back in the day my shop was one of the test beds for many of AM beta products too. Doing tons of warranty paint work for 15 dealers got my tail wet with rail dust removals almost every week. Thing is, clay was always the slowest and weakest thing to use for its removal. I remember showing Rick Schmidt how 4000 grit sandpaper left their Clay Magic in the dust on overspray & rail dust removals.

 

[Troy@Protekt]

Troy, you haven't replied about me using your car and tools when I come down.

I own two vehicles right now. A white minivan and a white work truck. If you think either one of those will win you a detailing contest then sure go ahead and use them.

BTW. My rotary is a DeWalt too so that should give you an advantage over those Makita guys.:gotcha:

 

[David Fermani]

I am very satisfied with putting out quality details with 90% paint corrections that only take me 3-4 hours to complete.

Troy - That 90% correction you mentioned here, would that be on a minorly marr free finish or one that's really moderately neglected? I have a hard doing any kind of corrective step (on a multi-step 90% correction) in 3-4 hours. Are you referring to glazing which could partially correct/hide or actually permanantly removing them? From my experience, whenever any product/process involves an aggressive pad or polish (one that's achieving 90% correction on a >minorly marred finish) is used, it requires the following of a lesser pad/polish combo. So that lends be back to perceiving your statement of 90% being achieved with multiple steps which I cannot see how one can do in 3-4 hours. I now people do 2 steps of buffing day in and day out, but the key is actual removal of the defects, not just partial. My fastest workers back in the day did complete details with 2 steps on dealer cars all day long in 3-4 hours, but I'd say that the level of correction being achieved in that time frame wasn't close to 90%. I'd say more like 60-70 (which was sufficient for this application).

Please don't take my post as bashing, in all respect if you know or do something that could save me this amount of time, I'm all ears. Seeing that you are in Florida like me, the sun plays a major role in the field of paint correction which I'm sure you can understand and relate too. :inspector:

 

[Troy@Protekt]

Troy - That 90% correction you mentioned here, would that be on a minorly marr free finish or one that's really moderately neglected? I have a hard doing any kind of corrective step (on a multi-step 90% correction) in 3-4 hours. Are you referring to glazing which could partially correct/hide or actually permanantly removing them? From my experience, whenever any product/process involves an aggressive pad or polish (one that's achieving 90% correction on a >minorly marred finish) is used, it requires the following of a lesser pad/polish combo. So that lends be back to perceiving your statement of 90% being achieved with multiple steps which I cannot see how one can do in 3-4 hours. I now people do 2 steps of buffing day in and day out, but the key is actual removal of the defects, not just partial. My fastest workers back in the day did complete details with 2 steps on dealer cars all day long in 3-4 hours, but I'd say that the level of correction being achieved in that time frame wasn't close to 90%. I'd say more like 60-70 (which was sufficient for this application).

Please don't take my post as bashing, in all respect if you know or do something that could save me this amount of time, I'm all ears. Seeing that you are in Florida like me, the sun plays a major role in the field of paint correction which I'm sure you can understand and relate too. :inspector:

Your fast guys doing 70% correction, did they have M-105 in their arsenol?

My ability to get the finish to 90% with these working times has only been achieved since using the M105. Before that I would say 75-80% improvement is all I could achieve within that time frame. You won't see me talking up a product very often but with 105 I can't help myself because it has improved my everyday details by quite a bit.

I almost forgot to give credit to the FLEX machine too. It's also a step saver in my book.

I did a black Denali yesterday that was moderately marred. It turned out about 95% with very little skill of the buffer being used thanks to the 105. I didn't use a rotary. That was a White Polishing pad (Four Star's which is more aggressive than Lake Country's) on a FLEX at speed 5. No glazes. Just the 105 followed up with UPP. I also did a blue BMW with a little less marring and it turned out the same way. Granted, hard finishes will take longer.

You're in Florida so you know that working on a warm finish can actually speed up your polishing process too.

I did take a couple before and afters of the hood. It won't prove much but it will show what 95% correction is to me. I'll post them later cuz I'm running out the door right now.

 

[Troy@Protekt]

I can see that I will probably need to do a video or two to show everyone I'm not full of crap. I'm planning on how-to videos soon anyways. As far as my everyday details that I'm spending 3-4 hours on. I think I need to explain further what they are. They are by no means show quality in most cases.

- I'm not doing the engine in most cases.
- I'm not pulling out the spare and detailing it.
- I am not machine polishing any metal unless it can easily be done along with the paint.

If that's cutting corners than I am.

- I am thoroughly cleaning the car including wheels front to back.
- I do pull off the license plate most of the time to get in and around that area.
- I am hand polishing any metal (Machine polishing is an extra service).
- I am cleaning/shampooing the carpet & cloth upholstery with a vapor cleaner in most cases.
- Leather gets thoroughly cleaned and treated.
- I do move seats back and forth (folding rear seats and detailing in and around them)
- I am meticulous with all cracks and crevices including emblems.
- All areas get cleaned and treated including door jambs and compartments (except spare tire compartment unless they request it.)
- I do clay each car
- The paint gets 1 polishing step followed by an lsp.
- The wheels do get hand polished and sealed.


Not all finishes correct to 90%. Most do and quite a few come out even better. This is my average everyday detail. I have yet to see a better detail done in my area by any of the other mobile guys.

 

[Troy@Protekt]

I did take a couple before and afters of the hood. It won't prove much but it will show what 95% correction is to me. I'll post them later cuz I'm running out the door right now.

OK these are what I took on the fly and the after pic was just after using M105 and nothing else. We were trying to get 3 vehicles done and fighting with the rain a little. (click to enlarge)



I'm really not a magician and I promise these photos are not touched up. Sheila and I did this Denali and we were done in a little over 2 hours.

The roof got clayed and front facing part got polished. The rest of the roof just got lsp. Yes that is a corner cut but who is gonna pay attention to how well the paint is polished up within the roof rack?

These are my everyday details on daily driven cars. They are my bread and butter jobs but I do get into doing more intricate details and I do take care of some award winning show cars. I've said it before, with me, it's all about giving the customer what they pay for and this is what the majority of my customers want.

 

[Anthony O.]

Really? A "contest"?

It won't work BUT if it was to work you can't do it with multiple cars, trying to get several cars in the same shape, but rather you need 1 car, purposely mar it up and then tape off the hood in several squares....maybe up to 4 or 5 detailers compete...they get pads and product and are then given a set time to get the paint corrected.

For interior all you need are carpet remnants, pour coffee, koolaide, urine, etc. on pieces. The detailers must not only remove the stains but also identify them correctly. They are also given a time limit. This can be done with leathers, micro-suede, etc.

No one wants to wait 12 hours for someone to complete a detail so that type of contest will fail.

Lastly, what good does it do for a California detailer to travel to Florida and win a detailing contest? Bragging rights? Gets to be in a magazine, TV...big deal. I was honored to be voted "Detailer of the year" and when I was told that some years ago I laughed at it because who the hell am I? I had my story and picture in a magazine, I have been interviewed for various books about detailing, I've been on TV but it's the day to day grind that puts money in my pocket, none of that other stuff.

"Oh you detail beautiful exotics!" is what I hear but some years ago I had to grow up and grasp that I am running a business for myself and my family and not for the accolades of people on forums. So winning a contest, to even be crowned "Best in the world", is no where near as important as running, operating and being part of a successful business that allows you to do what you love.

Anthony (obviously the best)

 

[Ronkh]

Really? A "contest"?

It won't work BUT if it was to work you can't do it with multiple cars, trying to get several cars in the same shape, but rather you need 1 car, purposely mar it up and then tape off the hood in several squares....maybe up to 4 or 5 detailers compete...they get pads and product and are then given a set time to get the paint corrected.

For interior all you need are carpet remnants, pour coffee, koolaide, urine, etc. on pieces. The detailers must not only remove the stains but also identify them correctly. They are also given a time limit. This can be done with leathers, micro-suede, etc.

No one wants to wait 12 hours for someone to complete a detail so that type of contest will fail.

Lastly, what good does it do for a California detailer to travel to Florida and win a detailing contest? Bragging rights? Gets to be in a magazine, TV...big deal. I was honored to be voted "Detailer of the year" and when I was told that some years ago I laughed at it because who the hell am I? I had my story and picture in a magazine, I have been interviewed for various books about detailing, I've been on TV but it's the day to day grind that puts money in my pocket, none of that other stuff.

"Oh you detail beautiful exotics!" is what I hear but some years ago I had to grow up and grasp that I am running a business for myself and my family and not for the accolades of people on forums. So winning a contest, to even be crowned "Best in the world", is no where near as important as running, operating and being part of a successful business that allows you to do what you love.

Anthony (obviously the best)

Finally, some logic !!!! :thanks