Bill D
Hooked For Life
Leo!
Thank you so much for the breath of fresh air! :bow :xyxthumbs
Thank you so much for the breath of fresh air! :bow :xyxthumbs
Terry Cloth Towels
- Thread starter qwik5o
- Start date
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
Let us not have a total disregard for true history.
The first cotton terry towel was produced in 1851 in Droylsden, Britain by James Christy on an especially adapted loom. It was the first machine woven towel in the world.
This is not a misconception. It is true history.
The first cotton terry towel was produced in 1851 in Droylsden, Britain by James Christy on an especially adapted loom. It was the first machine woven towel in the world.
This is not a misconception. It is true history.
so the Reader's Digest version of what DFTowel is saying, if I read it correctly, is that you can get GOOD MF & you can get GOOD cotton terry. Or you can get cheap, below par MF and you can get cheap, below par cotton terry. In-other-words it's simply buyer beware.
It would all be a matter of personal preference since performance is just about equal.
It would all be a matter of personal preference since performance is just about equal.
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
1SLOW50 said:
Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch.
DFTowel-Thank you for the information and your insightsâ€Â¦/
Mirrorfinishman- No matter what the opinion, there is always an opposing and often equally valid response.
Spilchy
New member
Asonyexec said:
What terry towels are you using that you have yet to notice a difference between them and a qaulity MF?
What are some of the brands of MF's that you have used that leads you to your conclusion? Where did you get them? I have @ 200 MF's from a dozen different places and a bunch of cotton towels and notice a major difference. That's why I am curious! Maybe I'm missing out on a great cotton towel!
I would highly recommed you try the Magic Towel (at autogeek), Sonüs Der Wunder Buffing Towel and the Viking Microfiber Drying Towel (both here at Autopia store). The Viking is a wonderful thick towel, great for QD'ing and at 40% off, I would definately check it out. I see you like thick towels - that's why I recommended those few.
Well because there are so many "what-ifs?" with terry cloth, and so many determining factors that could hurt the finish, i think I will just go with microfiber for anything touching my paint.
I appreciate the numerous replies and while all were helpful, I think the safest route to go would just be microfiber.
Thanks everyone! :xyxthumbs
I appreciate the numerous replies and while all were helpful, I think the safest route to go would just be microfiber.
Thanks everyone! :xyxthumbs
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
mirrorfinishman said:
I'm not sure how being machine-woven makes it "the first cotton terry towel". This is from a google search, and only the first hit:
"Today most of the world uses thick, thristy Turkish bath towels, but for most of history the world dried off after the bath with plain old napless towels.
It was in the 1600s that the Ottomans, famed for their carpet-weaving, brought fancy weaving to the common towel. Technically, what they made was a 2/2 twill weave with extra-warp loop pile, which means their towels had not just a warp and weft (like any cloth) but also a pile: loops of thread that stuck up from the basic cloth.
The loops helped to catch and hold the water, making drying after the bath easier, faster and more pleasant. By happy coincidence, Turkey is among the world's foremost producers of cotton and weavers of cotton cloth, including Turkish toweling."
mgm2003
New member
Just curious.....
What did detailers use to wipe, dry, etc.. in the 'time before microfiber' to produce a mar free finish under the lights?
What did detailers use to wipe, dry, etc.. in the 'time before microfiber' to produce a mar free finish under the lights?
Thank you Leo. You intelligently articulated a number of misconceptions entertained on this thread.
I'm a big fan of synthetic MF and own several brands that will never marr paint (even if they do scratch a CD...I agree with your statement about the CD test).
I also own a couple of brands that will marr paint.
That's the difference in quality. And that's also the difference in cotton towels. Some cotton will marr, some won't. I haven't had the pleasure of trying natural MF, but I have absolutely no doubt they are paint safe.
To answer a previous question,
I would think they used high quality paint-safe cotton terry towels...just my guess.
Although I prefer synthetic MF, I'm not against quality cotton terry towel. It's just that I haven't found any that didn't scratch dark coloured paint.
To illustrate, some time ago I was working on a dark blue classic car restoring its badly marred finish. I got it to a mirror finish using the Menzerna duo. I had bought very high quality ultra soft 100% egyptian cotton terry towels especially for this job. While wiping off the final polish I noticed the towels putting a few (not many) very fine scratches in the finish. I was horrified since on lighter colours they worked perfectly. I couldn't believe it since they where so soft and fluffy. I changed to my Pakshak MF and it worked perfectly.
That and subsequent experiences taught me a number of things:
1. Its easier (and less expensive) to find paint-safe synthetic MF than natural MF.
2. It's easier to find paint-safe synthetic MF than paint-safe natural terry towelling.
3. Poor quality synthetic MF can put in more scratches than good quality cotton terry...in other words, synthetic MF can be less paint-safe than cotton terry...it's not soley dependant on raw material used, denier and weave is more important.
4. By nature, cotton fibre is softer than synthetic fibre. Same denier cotton fibre will be softer than same denier synthetic fibre. As a result any MF made from cotton will be softer than a synthetic MF. In other words, if some cotton terry towels won't scratch, then cotton MF won't. Imagine a terry towel made from polyester/nylon! You'll never find one that's paint-safe.
5. I prefer synthetic MF, not because it won't scratch (some do), but because of the special fibre split that enables it to grab and hold particles without redepositing it. If it wasn't for this property, I would prefer natural MF because I believe it would be more paint-safe. I'd put cotton terry last.
Paul
I'm a big fan of synthetic MF and own several brands that will never marr paint (even if they do scratch a CD...I agree with your statement about the CD test).
I also own a couple of brands that will marr paint.
That's the difference in quality. And that's also the difference in cotton towels. Some cotton will marr, some won't. I haven't had the pleasure of trying natural MF, but I have absolutely no doubt they are paint safe.
To answer a previous question,
I would think they used high quality paint-safe cotton terry towels...just my guess.
Although I prefer synthetic MF, I'm not against quality cotton terry towel. It's just that I haven't found any that didn't scratch dark coloured paint.
To illustrate, some time ago I was working on a dark blue classic car restoring its badly marred finish. I got it to a mirror finish using the Menzerna duo. I had bought very high quality ultra soft 100% egyptian cotton terry towels especially for this job. While wiping off the final polish I noticed the towels putting a few (not many) very fine scratches in the finish. I was horrified since on lighter colours they worked perfectly. I couldn't believe it since they where so soft and fluffy. I changed to my Pakshak MF and it worked perfectly.
That and subsequent experiences taught me a number of things:
1. Its easier (and less expensive) to find paint-safe synthetic MF than natural MF.
2. It's easier to find paint-safe synthetic MF than paint-safe natural terry towelling.
3. Poor quality synthetic MF can put in more scratches than good quality cotton terry...in other words, synthetic MF can be less paint-safe than cotton terry...it's not soley dependant on raw material used, denier and weave is more important.
4. By nature, cotton fibre is softer than synthetic fibre. Same denier cotton fibre will be softer than same denier synthetic fibre. As a result any MF made from cotton will be softer than a synthetic MF. In other words, if some cotton terry towels won't scratch, then cotton MF won't. Imagine a terry towel made from polyester/nylon! You'll never find one that's paint-safe.
5. I prefer synthetic MF, not because it won't scratch (some do), but because of the special fibre split that enables it to grab and hold particles without redepositing it. If it wasn't for this property, I would prefer natural MF because I believe it would be more paint-safe. I'd put cotton terry last.
Paul
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
mgm121499 said:
Cotton t-shirts and old/used cotton bath towels but we never inspected the finish with a halogen light nor used magnification.
From what I know (and compared to DFTowel, thatâ€â„¢s very little) Micro fibre by definition (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) is not a fabric; it is a yarn, spun into thread, which is then used to weave a fabric. These ultra-fine yarns (2X as fine as silk and 100X finer than a human hair) are made form various sources
I used polyester Microfiber when they first came out (Pinnacle brand from Autogeek) and compared them with 100% cotton (DFTowel) micro fibre using an adaption of â€ËœDark field microscopyâ€â„¢, which did show micro scratches from both materials but far less for the cotton towels. Neadless to say they have been * my * towel of choice ever since
[For a surface to be optically perfect it should be free of all surface imperfections. The surface should be viewed very closely and from all possible angles. Start by looking at the surface in a darkened room, once your eyes have fully dilated, turn on a bright Halogen light beam.
Direct the beam away from you and at a low angle and from various directions (youâ€â„¢ll be able to see even the most minor paint film surface imperfection) this is 100X more sensitive than viewing a vehicles paint film surface in normal light.
This viewing technique is an adaptation of âہ“Dark field microscopyâ€Â� used in many scientific fields. Direct or cloudy sunlight, shaded, low-angled, directly overhead or light reflected from other surfaces, or the type of artificial light the surface is viewed under can all influence what surface imperfections can or cannot be seen]
Accumulator
Well-known member
mgm121499 said:
I had black lacquer cars back in the day, very soft paint that showed every flaw. I used high-end 100% cotton towels and I could *usually* get a good finish (occasionally a flawless one) if I worked carefully enough and replaced the towels quite often. But it was always a hit-or-miss thing, you just never knew when you'd have to redo a panel because the towel would mar it- maybe you pressed to hard, maybe the towel wasn't all that soft, maybe its nap had worn down, etc. etc.
Note that back then they didn't have foam pads for polishers either, just wool. People made do, but it's not like foam wasn't a great step forward.
It used to be *very, very* hard to get a good finish, let alone a flawless one. Decent-looking cars were few and far between, even at the highest levels, and nobody seemed to care. People used to look at well-polished cars and just shake their heads when you pointed out "no marring". They didn't get it.
Things change; perceptions change (or don't
).Oh, and I find it funny that even with all my fancy halogen lights, I still do my most critical inspection with old-tech, incandescent lighting. Far less forgiving. Some technology changes are all good (MF, foam pads), others have to be considered carefully for pros and cons (halogen, let alone fluorescent lighting).