Terry Cloth Towels
- Thread starter qwik5o
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Accumulator
Well-known member
Yes. It depends on how hard the paint is, but even soft 100% cotton terrycloth towels can mar many automotive paints. Sometimes the marring isn't visible to the naked eye, but looking at it with magnification will really :scared you. And, lest that sound totally 
even that sort of near-microscopic micromarring really does make a difference. And usually the marring from cotton isn't microscopic anyhow, you just need the right lighting and it jumps right out at you.
e.g., Meguiar's #7 is a nonabrasive polish. But when using it with *very* soft cotton, the *combination* will abrade many lacquer paints. It's the cotton doing the cutting, the #7 provides lubrication to keep the cutting under control. Many "hand rubbed lacquer" paintjobs are done using this combo. Go over the same paint with cotton to remove polish or dry the car, and you risk serious marring. Used to drive me *nuts* on my Jaguar before they came out with MF.
even that sort of near-microscopic micromarring really does make a difference. And usually the marring from cotton isn't microscopic anyhow, you just need the right lighting and it jumps right out at you.e.g., Meguiar's #7 is a nonabrasive polish. But when using it with *very* soft cotton, the *combination* will abrade many lacquer paints. It's the cotton doing the cutting, the #7 provides lubrication to keep the cutting under control. Many "hand rubbed lacquer" paintjobs are done using this combo. Go over the same paint with cotton to remove polish or dry the car, and you risk serious marring. Used to drive me *nuts* on my Jaguar before they came out with MF.
I have a black car and detail a lot of black vehicles and from my experience cotton towels no matter how soft will mar the paint, unless you hardly touch it. I use quality MF and nothing else. They pick up a lot more product which makes it easier to remove polish or buff off wax/sealant. But make sure you get quality mf's because I've had ones that have marred paint.
Alright that is basically all I wanted to know, I too have a black car so no terry cloth will touch it now. 
This question was brought to mind watching the Meguiar's videos on their websight and they said they only use 100% cotton terry clothes....makes me question Meguiars...haha..
This question was brought to mind watching the Meguiar's videos on their websight and they said they only use 100% cotton terry clothes....makes me question Meguiars...haha..
dschribs
New member
I think those videos were actually put out right around the time that MF's were becoming the new way to go. I'm sure if they updated the videos today, they'd be using MF's as well.
Stay away from terry cloth - I was always so careful on my show car and I still got swirls and I know it's from the cloths I used to use (100% terrycloth). The CD test is the way to go - you'd be suprised how something that "seems" so soft can still scratch. Those free AOL discs that i get in the mail now come in so handy!!
Stay away from terry cloth - I was always so careful on my show car and I still got swirls and I know it's from the cloths I used to use (100% terrycloth). The CD test is the way to go - you'd be suprised how something that "seems" so soft can still scratch. Those free AOL discs that i get in the mail now come in so handy!!
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
Kevin,
100% cotton terry cloth towels will not scratch or mar the paints surface.
100% cotton terry cloth towels will not scratch or mar the paints surface.
mirrorfinishman said:
The only cotton that will not scratch is jersy knit cotton(it's like a t shirt) but it is not very absorbant at all. I use to buy it in sheets and cut my own towels because they are hard to find. There was an earlier thread about cotton vs MF's and both were found to scratch the paint. Under magnified pics cotton scratch badly MF's almost none. I don't know how controlled the test was though. Do a search and you could probably find it.
dschribs
New member
Mirrorfinishman
I'm going to have to disagree with you there - in terms of the results I've had at least. The one's I was using on my show car did scratch a CD I tried them on - and they certainly marred the finish of my car. Mine are now used as rags to change my oil.
Maybe like anything - there's good and bad but if it's all 100% cotton terry cloth - how can one be better than the other??
Also, if it's true that 100% cotton will not scratch auto clear, why does every one here use MF??
I'm going to have to disagree with you there - in terms of the results I've had at least. The one's I was using on my show car did scratch a CD I tried them on - and they certainly marred the finish of my car. Mine are now used as rags to change my oil.
Maybe like anything - there's good and bad but if it's all 100% cotton terry cloth - how can one be better than the other??
Also, if it's true that 100% cotton will not scratch auto clear, why does every one here use MF??
Accumulator
Well-known member
Maybe cotton doesn't mar for Mirrorfinishman, and/or maybe he simply doesn't *see* the marring if it does. Note that he has opined that the lighting I use for paint inspection is unnaturally unforgiving, showing marring that he feels wouldn't be visible under the different conditions with which he concerns himself. IIRC, he also felt that my use of magnification is unnecessarily demanding. This was all clearly stated *by him in his words* in a post that is probably still there if anybody wants to look it up. I recall replying that for some people "shaving sharp" is the goal when sharpening a knife, while for some of us it's the starting point- it's all a matter of degree and expectation. As best I can tell, he and I simply agreed to disagree on this matter of "what one should concern oneself with" and this might explain our different views on this cotton-marring topic as well.
But 100% cotton terry toweling, used on perfectly clean paint, absolutely *has* marred for me. I saw it happen as I *did* it. Doing the same things with MF does not result in marring. For me that says "case closed"; why take the chance?
If something *does* mar for some people, and doesn't mar for others, IMO the smart thing to do is err on the side of caution lest you find yourself in the former group. But that doesn't make my opinion the only one in town.
But 100% cotton terry toweling, used on perfectly clean paint, absolutely *has* marred for me. I saw it happen as I *did* it. Doing the same things with MF does not result in marring. For me that says "case closed"; why take the chance?
If something *does* mar for some people, and doesn't mar for others, IMO the smart thing to do is err on the side of caution lest you find yourself in the former group. But that doesn't make my opinion the only one in town.
Spilchy
New member
1SLOW50 said:Ahh, so many different answers...
Stick with qaulity MF's and you'll NEVER be confused or unsure of what material to use.
There are so many MF's out there, that if you stick to places like the Autopia store, autogeek, Pak Shak, etc... you'll be in business.
100% cotton has (in my opinion "had") it's place in a detailing arsenal. But, with the introduction of the microfiber, there is zero need for cotton. Even cheap MF's can be used for all your grunge work like wheels and door jambs.
I have 100% cotton Koala buffing towels (no longer sold) and use them for drying bumpers and interior work. NEVER for paint (only in the past).
Trust Accumulator on this.
STICK WITH MICROFIBER!
edit: 100% cotton RARELY means 100% cotton! Do the "CD test" and see for yourself.
Eliot Ness
Active member
Accumulator said:
Accumulator, have you used the Concours Buffing Towel (CBT)?
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/mf-cbt.html
It is an "all-natural terry cloth toweling.........woven using the most modern microfiber equipment and techniques."
Just curious what your take is on this (if I may use the term) hybrid towel?
I have yet to notice a difference between MF & cotton terry. I see many posts claiming that cotton does "micro' mar the car's finish but c'mon so does QDing , put a car cover on a dusty car, or using a calif duster. Unless you're going to clean and keep you car in a vacuum it's going to get light scratches.
What I really don't buy about MF is that MF is a synthetic fiber made from pastics, all MF mfgs boast about their MF being like cotton or as close to it as possible using synthetic material. SO, the $64K question is why not just use cotton, isn't MF aspiring to be "just like cotton"? I understand MF absorbs 7, 8, 10x the amount of water cotton does but for those prices they better, other than their ability to absorb greater amounts of water I dont get.
I suppose it all comes down to a matter of personal preference. I really don't think one product is any "better" than the other. I for one, like the feeling of that thick fluffy folded up towel under my hand while i pollish away. Using a MF feels like Im using a hankerchief on my car.
Ease up MF loyalist, this is simply one man's opinion.
What I really don't buy about MF is that MF is a synthetic fiber made from pastics, all MF mfgs boast about their MF being like cotton or as close to it as possible using synthetic material. SO, the $64K question is why not just use cotton, isn't MF aspiring to be "just like cotton"? I understand MF absorbs 7, 8, 10x the amount of water cotton does but for those prices they better, other than their ability to absorb greater amounts of water I dont get.
I suppose it all comes down to a matter of personal preference. I really don't think one product is any "better" than the other. I for one, like the feeling of that thick fluffy folded up towel under my hand while i pollish away. Using a MF feels like Im using a hankerchief on my car.
Ease up MF loyalist, this is simply one man's opinion.
Asonyexec said:
I hardly think MF's are trying to be like cotton in fact I would think it's the opposite. As far as not noticing any marring with cotton I guess that's a matter of discrimination. I think if people inspect close enough, as some of us do they would see the marring left from cotton. But hey I guess we are going to have to agree on dissagreeing.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Eliot Ness- You bet I've used them :xyxthumbs I consider them a "microfiber" for purposes of this discussion though. Hope I didn't make for any confusion by not mentioning them. I like them for some things, don't like them too well for others. They're great for removing some LSPs and for QDing (only after a wash for me 
). I don't really like them over (regular) MF for polish removal and I prefer suede-style MFs for sealants. Got my first ones as a gift from a fellow Autopian who really liked them and thought I oughta try 'em.
Asonyexec- I don't use MF because it's "just like cotton", I expect it to be better. Some MFs are, some aren't.
And a few of us manage to drive our cars without getting any marring. Even our family minivan goes months and months of beater duty without any marring whatsoever. My '01 S8 has only needed polished twice (or was it three times, I forget) since new and I drive it year-round. Brad B. hardly ever has to polish his cars (I don't know if he *ever* polished his S4). It's not easy, but it is possible. But then I *never* QD, use a CCD, or even use a car cover. Other than the door handles, if my car's not 100% spotless (as in freshly washed), nothing touches it unless I'm washing it. Yeah, my mechanic is well-trained in how to treat my cars
). I don't really like them over (regular) MF for polish removal and I prefer suede-style MFs for sealants. Got my first ones as a gift from a fellow Autopian who really liked them and thought I oughta try 'em.Asonyexec- I don't use MF because it's "just like cotton", I expect it to be better. Some MFs are, some aren't.
And a few of us manage to drive our cars without getting any marring. Even our family minivan goes months and months of beater duty without any marring whatsoever. My '01 S8 has only needed polished twice (or was it three times, I forget) since new and I drive it year-round. Brad B. hardly ever has to polish his cars (I don't know if he *ever* polished his S4). It's not easy, but it is possible. But then I *never* QD, use a CCD, or even use a car cover. Other than the door handles, if my car's not 100% spotless (as in freshly washed), nothing touches it unless I'm washing it. Yeah, my mechanic is well-trained in how to treat my cars
imported_mirrorfinishman
New member
The Beef said:
A SHORT STORY ABOUT ELI WHITNEY
Once apon a time there was this guy named Eli Whitney. Now, you may not know it, but Eli Whitney just happens to be the inventor of the cotton gin and a pioneer in the use of mass production methods. Of course, all of this happened a long, long time ago and up until now you may not have ever heard about Eli Whitney.
Eli Whitney was born in Westboro, Mass., in Dec. of 1765, and died in Jan. of 1825. He graduated from Yale College in 1792 and by April 1793 had designed and constructed a machine called a cotton gin that quickly and easily separated cottonseed from the short-staple cotton fiber.
Yes, believe it or not, April 1793 was the beginning of time for the 100% cotton terry towel. Hey, I am not making this up.
Whitney's cotton gin was capable of maintaining a daily output of 50 lb of cleaned cotton, and its effect was far-reaching, making southern cotton a profitable crop for the first time.
Whitney, however, failed to profit from his invention. Numerous imitations appeared, and his 1794 patent was not validated until 1807.
What would Eli Whitney think when after more than 200 years later numerous imitations still continue to appear?
True story.
First of all: "Yes, believe it or not, April 1793 was the beginning of time for the 100% cotton terry towel. Hey, I am not making this up. "
I've heard a lot of misconceptions on this forum and others but that has to be one of the top 10. Terry weaves where first developed in Turkey, probably sometime in the middle ages. The Cotton Gin was merely a machine to separate the cotton fibers in the Boll from the seed thus allowing the mass preparation of cotton before spinning into yarn. Before that it had to be hand picked and was very time consuming. In fact, the Cotton Gin was probably the single machine that boosted the demand for slaves in the South because it allowed for increased cotton production.
Now to the rest:
Terry cloth does not mean all cotton. Terry is a woven or knitted fabric of any fiber, either natural such as cotton or even silk, or of man made plastics such as polyester. Weaving and knitting are methods of assembling spun thread into a fabric.
Microfiber does not mean polyester. Microfibers are available in many forms from polyester (the first material used to make microfber) to rayon, to nylon, to acetate to plant materails such as cellulose (cotton and others.) In a nutshell Microfiber refers to any yarn of any origin (natural or man made) that is below a certain diameter. If anyone wants the technical defintition with all the numbers I'll be glad to post it.
Just because the label says 100% Cotton does not mean it really is. Beware of imports from such places as China. Korea, India, Pakistan, and others. Also beware of misleading labels that say things such as 100% Cotton Loops, this only means the loop is cotton but the rest is God knows what.
Just because the label says Made in USA does not mean it is, beware of importers who change labels!
Just because the towel is made in the USA does not mean it is a superior quality. Sweat shops produce some mighty frightening stuff!
Just because the towel is imported does not mean it is of inferior quality.
Just because something is all cotton doesn't mean it won't scratch. An extreme example would be cotton burlap, it surely would scratch!!
Just because something is made of microfiber yarns doesn't mean it won't scratch.
Therefore based on the above info you can understand that:
Terrycloth can be made with microfiber yarns. In fact, I've never seen a towel used in the way we do that is not Terry or Velour (cut loops Terry.)
The ONLY way for a non technical consumer to know for sure that an item is really cotton is to perform a simple burn test. This thread should help: http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20801&highlight=burn+chart
The CD test is not 100% accurate. The CD surface is MUCH softer than your car's. Be careful not to rub hard on the CD, just wipe like you would on your car. If the CD does not scratch then it is probabl that the towel won't scratch the car. If the towel does scratch the CD then it does not necessarily mean it will scratch your car, it only means use some caution and check it in an out of the way spot first.
Stay away from cheap imports or bulk store purchases. While some may be safe chances are they are not, they are typically mislabeled and almost always made from scrap yarn and not pure virgin yarn. Why be cheap with your towels and ruin your $30,000 car? It makes no sense to be cheap on towels and related fabric items, they are the single product that can ruin your car faster than you can imagine. Spending a few bucks more on a quality item is well worth the peace of mind.
All the quality items sold by the companies that support these forums are fine products, it is just a matter of personal taste as to what you like best.
I've heard a lot of misconceptions on this forum and others but that has to be one of the top 10. Terry weaves where first developed in Turkey, probably sometime in the middle ages. The Cotton Gin was merely a machine to separate the cotton fibers in the Boll from the seed thus allowing the mass preparation of cotton before spinning into yarn. Before that it had to be hand picked and was very time consuming. In fact, the Cotton Gin was probably the single machine that boosted the demand for slaves in the South because it allowed for increased cotton production.
Now to the rest:
Terry cloth does not mean all cotton. Terry is a woven or knitted fabric of any fiber, either natural such as cotton or even silk, or of man made plastics such as polyester. Weaving and knitting are methods of assembling spun thread into a fabric.
Microfiber does not mean polyester. Microfibers are available in many forms from polyester (the first material used to make microfber) to rayon, to nylon, to acetate to plant materails such as cellulose (cotton and others.) In a nutshell Microfiber refers to any yarn of any origin (natural or man made) that is below a certain diameter. If anyone wants the technical defintition with all the numbers I'll be glad to post it.
Just because the label says 100% Cotton does not mean it really is. Beware of imports from such places as China. Korea, India, Pakistan, and others. Also beware of misleading labels that say things such as 100% Cotton Loops, this only means the loop is cotton but the rest is God knows what.
Just because the label says Made in USA does not mean it is, beware of importers who change labels!
Just because the towel is made in the USA does not mean it is a superior quality. Sweat shops produce some mighty frightening stuff!
Just because the towel is imported does not mean it is of inferior quality.
Just because something is all cotton doesn't mean it won't scratch. An extreme example would be cotton burlap, it surely would scratch!!
Just because something is made of microfiber yarns doesn't mean it won't scratch.
Therefore based on the above info you can understand that:
Terrycloth can be made with microfiber yarns. In fact, I've never seen a towel used in the way we do that is not Terry or Velour (cut loops Terry.)
The ONLY way for a non technical consumer to know for sure that an item is really cotton is to perform a simple burn test. This thread should help: http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20801&highlight=burn+chart
The CD test is not 100% accurate. The CD surface is MUCH softer than your car's. Be careful not to rub hard on the CD, just wipe like you would on your car. If the CD does not scratch then it is probabl that the towel won't scratch the car. If the towel does scratch the CD then it does not necessarily mean it will scratch your car, it only means use some caution and check it in an out of the way spot first.
Stay away from cheap imports or bulk store purchases. While some may be safe chances are they are not, they are typically mislabeled and almost always made from scrap yarn and not pure virgin yarn. Why be cheap with your towels and ruin your $30,000 car? It makes no sense to be cheap on towels and related fabric items, they are the single product that can ruin your car faster than you can imagine. Spending a few bucks more on a quality item is well worth the peace of mind.
All the quality items sold by the companies that support these forums are fine products, it is just a matter of personal taste as to what you like best.