Tell me how a Boar's hair brush doesn't scratch?

[SuperBee364]

I use a MF wash mitt when I do my ONR washes. I take it you would disagree with this method?

For a traditional wash, I would disagree (quite loud and obnoxiously ) but not for an ONR wash. That stuff truly is voodoo in a bottle. I have used chenille mitts with ONR quite a bit, but my fav is still a Eurow MF.

 

[SuperBee364]

Oh really? Why would anyone choose to use a car washing tool that mars your paint if you happen to slip or make a slight mistake with it? Had I known that I would have stuck to a grout sponge, which is what I went back to.

When used correctly, a good BHB won't mar the paint, and is one of the safest, most gentle wash medias you could use. Much safer than a grout sponge. Grout sponges are ok for ONR washes (better put that in there to avoid another misunderstanding) but you *will* mar the paint every time you do a traditional wash on a car using a grout sponge as your wash media. *Any* wash media will mar the paint if you "slip or make a slight mistake with it". Others will mar the paint even if you *don't* slip up or make a small mistake with it. When used in a traditional wash, your grout sponge fits this category. In a traditional wash, any time you smash dirt under a wash media, then run it across your paint, you *will* mar it.



I can just see the flurry of flaming responses that the above statement will cause, and I just don't feel up to defending/responding/explaining it. So either believe it, or don't, cause that's all I'm gonna say.

 

[Accumulator]

I use a MF wash mitt when I do my ONR washes. I take it you would disagree with this method?

On the rare occasions that I do an ONR wash, I too use MF mitts (plush ones, not the "Muppet head" type). Just did this yesterday on my pal's '60 Jag MKII, a car that I don't want to get too wet.

For a traditional wash, I would disagree (quite loud and obnoxiously )..

Heh heh, hey...maybe I get to disagree with SuperBee364 about wash technique



I use MF mitts for the *second step* of my washes, after using the BHB for the initial work (both with foamguns). I usually use sheepskin mitts for this, but on the S8 I generally go with MF ones.



Gotta *REALLY* watch it though as they can retain dirt more readily than sheepskin.



I used to use chenille for this but have pretty much switched over to the MF.

Oh really? Why would anyone choose to use a car washing tool that mars your paint if you happen to slip or make a slight mistake with it? Had I known that I would have stuck to a grout sponge, which is what I went back to.

If what you're doing works for you, then I'll be the first to say that you should stick with it.



I find it very easy to use the BHBs without marring, I simply *never* press hard enough to deflect the bristles. Admittedly, my decades of experience with them probably has a lot to do with that.



I simply cannot wash marring-free any other way :nixweiss. I used to have to polish at least once a year, but now those days are behind me.

I can just see the flurry of flaming responses that the above statement will cause, and I just don't feel up to defending/responding/explaining it. So either believe it, or don't, cause that's all I'm gonna say.

That's probably a good note for me to end *my* post with too



From ONR to BHB/foamguns to grout sponges to [whatever], there are all sorts of wash techniques with adherents here at Autopia. Whatever works for somebody is what they should do. But if somebody has to polish (even dark vehicles that are driven in the winter) every year, let alone more often, then there's something wrong.

 

[armoredsaint]

When used correctly, a good BHB won't mar the paint, and is one of the safest, most gentle wash medias you could use. Much safer than a grout sponge. Grout sponges are ok for ONR washes (better put that in there to avoid another misunderstanding) but you *will* mar the paint every time you do a traditional wash on a car using a grout sponge as your wash media. *Any* wash media will mar the paint if you "slip or make a slight mistake with it". Others will mar the paint even if you *don't* slip up or make a small mistake with it. When used in a traditional wash, your grout sponge fits this category. In a traditional wash, any time you smash dirt under a wash media, then run it across your paint, you *will* mar it.



I can just see the flurry of flaming responses that the above statement will cause, and I just don't feel up to defending/responding/explaining it. So either believe it, or don't, cause that's all I'm gonna say.

damn, i didn't know that - i just brought 3 more from lowes yesterday, i thought the GS was the next best thing? :help:



i used it over the weekend to wash my new black sapphire metallic bmw and didn't see any traces of swirls or marring?

 

[Bostonsfavson]

For a traditional wash, I would disagree (quite loud and obnoxiously ) but not for an ONR wash. That stuff truly is voodoo in a bottle. I have used chenille mitts with ONR quite a bit, but my fav is still a Eurow MF.

Haha, good to know. I pretty much exclusively do ONR washes now, so I guess I'm good to go. I'll have to try on of those Eurow MFs sometime.

 

[06c350sport]

I find it very easy to use the BHBs without marring, I simply *never* press hard enough to deflect the bristles. Admittedly, my decades of experience with them probably has a lot to do with that.

Well, I just must be incompetent, but the main reason I tried a BHB was to get the salt solution w/surfactant they use on the roads here in Oregon in winter out of crevices and such, and I found that even with a relatively strong wash soap (CG Citrus Wash or Griots) you can't get the car clean with near-zero pressure on the bristles. Yeah, the marring was probably my fault, but then again Griots (or any other supplier I've seen) doesn't warn you that the bristle shafts are dangerous.



Of course, I'm not too bright to begin with, because I let my spouse talk me into ordering a BMW X3 in Jet Black, which is a horendous color to maintain. Goose down would swirl it.

 

[Accumulator]

I already responded to this, but I dunno what did/didn't get viewed prior to last week's crash...

Well, I just must be incompetent,...Of course, I'm not too bright to begin with, because I let my spouse talk me into ordering a BMW X3 in Jet Black, which is a horendous color to maintain. Goose down would swirl it...

Heh heh, I appreciate your friendly attitude and self-deprecating humor :xyxthumbs A lot of people woulda taken offense at my earlier post, which, in hindsight, coulda been expressed a little better.



And yeah...that paint would drive me crazy! You have a real challenge on your hands there.

..but the main reason I tried a BHB was to get the salt solution w/surfactant they use on the roads here in Oregon in winter out of crevices and such...

That's one of the things I really like mine for..but your [winter stuff] might be very different from mine.

and I found that even with a relatively strong wash soap (CG Citrus Wash or Griots) you can't get the car clean with near-zero pressure on the bristles...

Yeah, I use the BHB to "knock the big stuff loose" and just start to compromise the bond of the remaining roadfilm. Then I have to use mitts to get the latter off 100% because as you noted, used properly the BHB can be too gentle. It *is* a tricky dilemma!

Yeah, the marring was probably my fault, but then again Griots (or any other supplier I've seen) doesn't warn you that the bristle shafts are dangerous.

On that point I'll :nono you a little as I don't blame vendors for sugar-coating stuff in the "need to be careful" category and I think it's on the consumer to figure out things like that *before* using the product. But of course I had to learn the hard way too and I used the BHBs for years before I got my technique sorted out. In fact, I'm *still* refining my BHB-centric wash technique and I've been using them since the 19080s!

 

[GS4_Fiend]

I thought those were for the wheels.

 

[Accumulator]

I thought those were for the wheels.

The ones for wheels are typically a little more aggressive. IME they're *GREAT* but then I'm always saying that about (good) BHBs



The ones for wheels seem to work well with ONR-based approaches too (I wouldn't use BHBs with ONR for the rest of the car).

 

[06c350sport]

On that point I'll :nono you a little as I don't blame vendors for sugar-coating stuff in the "need to be careful" category and I think it's on the consumer to figure out things like that *before* using the product. But of course I had to learn the hard way too and I used the BHBs for years before I got my technique sorted out. In fact, I'm *still* refining my BHB-centric wash technique and I've been using them since the 1980s

You've got to be kidding. How the heck was I supposed to know the shafts might mar the paint? Caveat Emptor isn't a strategy that keeps me as a customer. That's BS.

 

[Accumulator]

Long-winded post follows, hey...I like discussing this stuff.

You've got to be kidding. How the heck was I supposed to know the shafts might mar the paint?

No, I really wasn't kidding. Heh heh, I've spent a *LOT* of time working on figuring this stuff out and I assume (uh-oh ) that others have too.



I'm no slow study (on *any* topic ), and this isn't rocket science, but it's not something that people will understand with just a few minutes of consideration. Heh heh, it took me *dozens* of washes before I got my BHB-centric wash technique sorted out, and every one of those was a carefully conducted learning experience.



But then I also have a lot of experience around automotive paint and I probably make most of my big mistakes back when I was a kid (in the days of black single stage paint...very soft stuff). Some of my expectations about what people oughta know/intuitively figure out might be unrealistic :think:



OK... think of it this way- I assume that automotive paint is as delicate as the surface of an eyeball. Consider how painful it can be when you get a little eyelash stuck under your eyelid; that's the shaft of the BHB bristle marring your paint.

.. Caveat Emptor isn't a strategy that keeps me as a customer. That's BS.

While I don't agree with you, I do understand your position. No problem with me if we agree to disagree on that one.



IMO there's still a *LOT* of detailing stuff on the market that's more likely to do damage than to give good results, yet they keep on selling whatever is profitable. In this case, I know people who use BHBs incorrectly, marring up their paint something awful IMO, who are 100% satisfied with them. They'd probably mar things *worse* with some other wash medium anyhow... :nixweiss



I've discussed the (BHB-induced) marring of paint with numerous BHB vendors (often in the course of returning an unacceptable BHB), and the Autopian-level "avoidance of marring" is a surprisingly foreign concept (well, it was until I enlightened them ). They've sometimes expressed surprise when somebody cares that a bad brush *used properly* mars paint due to defects like excess adhesive on the bristles or overly coarse bristles!



People who care as much as most everybody here are a rare breed...most folks simply assume that marred-up paint is par for the course, even at high levels of concours competition.