Technique vs. Product - just how important is product really?

JuneBug said:
..The thing that bothered me was the silica in the 3M compounds. That stuff can't be good for ya. I wonder if it's in the new stuff? Anyway, I'll stick with what I have.
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Check the labels, if it contains silica it oughta contain a warning (at least these days). And yeah, wear the proper respirator when using silica-based abrasives.



I'm a broken-record on this, but breathing silica dust is like breathing adbestos dust- it can kill you. People who'd never smoke a cigarette sometimes breathe in stuff that's just as toxic in the course of "safe" activities.



Guess I don't mind repeating this caveat over and over...a while back a member here, who'd used a silica-based abrasives for years, saw one of my warnings about it and considered it a wakeup call...it had previously escaped his notice.
 
Coupe said:
This is why im not buying into the whole "106ff is the best finishing polish EVER" crap....



Understanding the product and how to use it is what matters. Me and my cheap megs and optimum are doing great together.
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Get a sample of 106ff or 85rd and do some side-by-side comparisons with your other products.



That is what I did, and indeed the Menzerna finishing polishes do give better results.
 
i feel dumb for admitting this but, ive bought into the menzerna line(106ff)...and ive only used my PC for 2-3 details. Since i have bought my Megs #80 and #83 and although i havent used them yet...i feel i can learn my technique alot easier with chemicals that arent so expensive. Once i get my technique down, only then will i start using my expensive products like Menzerna.
 
Coupe said:
This is why im not buying into the whole "106ff is the best finishing polish EVER" crap....



Understanding the product and how to use it is what matters. Me and my cheap megs and optimum are doing great together.
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I don't think anyone ever said other products don't work. Well, maybe...who knows what people say around here. For me, 106ff is the product I like to finish with. In my experience, it consistently finishes "the best" for me on all types of paints. So ya... process is > product, but at some point when the process is good the product helps.
 
Picus said:
I don't think anyone ever said other products don't work. Well, maybe...who knows what people say around here. For me, 106ff is the product I like to finish with. In my experience, it consistently finishes "the best" for me on all types of paints. So ya... process is > product, but at some point when the process is good the product helps.
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I've been trying to come up with a similar response since I first read this thread. Thanks!
 
Black240SX said:
Get a sample of 106ff or 85rd and do some side-by-side comparisons with your other products.



That is what I did, and indeed the Menzerna finishing polishes do give better results.
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I too thought I was cool where I was with polishes before trying Menzerna. I held off because of the price. I got a sample from another member and tried it. I was floored by how much *easier* I got *better* results. I bought/traded my way in to Menzerna and haven't looked back.
 
Menzerna definately finishes nicer with the reflections being sharper and clearer

Wetness is really nice too.

One brand thats not too highly spoken of is Prima. Don't know why but they are one group of polishes that beat Menzerna for swirl removal on certain cars



Swirl deep cleans so well that the finish gives the appearance of being SS rather than cleared. It really takes years off the paint finish. that fresh off the gun look is it's strength
 
Black240SX said:
Get a sample of 106ff or 85rd and do some side-by-side comparisons with your other products.



That is what I did, and indeed the Menzerna finishing polishes do give better results.
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Yeah right, even a small 4oz sample would cost me about the same as a whole 32oz bottle of Optimum or Megs :lol



Picus said:
I don't think anyone ever said other products don't work. Well, maybe...who knows what people say around here.
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They didnt.....nor did i



I was just sayin that menz is the "in thing" right now just like all those products over all these years that come and go and are just the best thing since sliced bread. Next year

It will be something else.
 
Coupe said:
Yeah right, even a small 4oz sample would cost me about the same as a whole 32oz bottle of Optimum or Megs :lol







They didnt.....nor did i



I was just sayin that menz is the "in thing" right now just like all those products over all these years that come and go and are just the best thing since sliced bread. Next year

It will be something else.
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I know where you are coming from with all the hype on products these days along with fads. But when top pro's tell you it super, then chances is it is. I still have been tring to find an alternative to this product, but still have not found one yet. It really is one of a kind and does bump the gloss to a crystal sharp finish via rotary with no holograms or trails at all. Personally it really is a rotary polish to have the abrasives break down.



The downfalls..



Very mild (sometimes a little too mild)

the oils need to wiped down with pro alcohol.



I have been testing the new ultrafina and has been working great also, but it still is expensive at $40 a bottle and you use a lot more and needs to run at a higher rpm. 106 can do 80 plus cars. I have been using it for 2 years now and still use it on every car I do.





3m is scary with the ingredients and the cancer warning on the bottles.
 
rydawg said:
But when top pro's tell you it super, then chances is it is.
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I'm not doubting anyone's ability here, so please don't take this personal. This statement could be added to the list of myths/misnomers/misconceptions out there. Isn't that why alot of infomercials always have *so called professionals* campaigning their products claiming their's is the best?
 
David Fermani said:
I'm not doubting anyone's ability here, so please don't take this personal. This statement could be added to the list of myths/misnomers/misconceptions out there. Isn't that why alot of infomercials always have *so called professionals* campaigning their products claiming their's is the best?
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Exactly :werd:
 
David Fermani said:
I'm not doubting anyone's ability here, so please don't take this personal. This statement could be added to the list of myths/misnomers/misconceptions out there. Isn't that why alot of infomercials always have *so called professionals* campaigning their products claiming their's is the best?
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I think Ryan is speaking of the pro's here. The "pro's" in the infomercial have financial gain at stake.
 
David Fermani said:
I'm not doubting anyone's ability here, so please don't take this personal. This statement could be added to the list of myths/misnomers/misconceptions out there. Isn't that why alot of infomercials always have *so called professionals* campaigning their products claiming their's is the best?
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I think all Ryan meant was if there are guys on Autopia or other boards, or in person, that you trust as good detailers - and they say a product is working really well for them, then odds are it's probably not crap.



I personally try not to talk up products, I just list what I use in my c&b's. I always keep an eye on the products listed in the c&b's of detailers I respect, which is how I decide when to try something new.
 
Totoland Mach is a good example, he primarily uses megs and 3M, most of those products are relatively cheap. He has some of the best C&B threads of anyone on this site, yet his products are basic and cheaply had. IIRC the most expensive he uses is 3M ultrafina se and iirc he just started using it.



I just dont buy into the whole 106ff is so great stuff. I highly doubt anyone would be able to discern the difference between a finish that was finished with 106ff or OP for example.
 
Great thread. Knowledge is almost everything, then I have to say if you have good tools you can do the job quicker/better then with crappy tools.



But then I can´t buy the argument that PO106FF is so damn expensive. I mean come on, how much is $30 anyways on a product that is so economical and IMHO much better then lets say for example OP? 30 bucks is nothing. Wax a car and you can buy a bottle who will be enough for plenty of cars.



And we are all agree that prep is everything.



EDIT:



I don´t think Menzerna is a buzz like all other products who comes and goes. I have been using Menzerna since 2004 and I have never looked back at the old products. But I am always trying new stuffs to see if I can find something better then Menzerna. The good stuff is that Menzerna is cheaper then Meguiars, Automagic, Malco and etc here in Sweden :D
 
porta said:
Great thread. Knowledge is almost everything, then I have to say if you have good tools you can do the job quicker/better then with crappy tools.



But then I can´t buy the argument that PO106FF is so damn expensive. I mean come on, how much is $30 anyways on a product that is so economical and IMHO much better then lets say for example OP? 30 bucks is nothing. Wax a car and you can buy a bottle who will be enough for plenty of cars.



And we are all agree that prep is everything.
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Its $50 not $30





I can buy 2 32oz bottles of OP and 1 bottle of OHC for that much money. Its much much much more economical.
 
While there is going to be a difference between the very low end of the scale and the high end, it isn't going to be as much as a lot of people like to claim. I have gotten great results with Zurtle Wax and would not hesitate to use it. To me what sets most of the high end products apart is more their ease of use rather than an extreme difference in the end results.



Here is the obligatory Zurtle Wax picture :)



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Menzerna CeramiClear PO106FF Polish 32 oz $49.95 - Optimum Car Polish 32 oz. $19.99



= $29,96



So $30 is not worth to use on a product who many swears is a far superior product then OP?
 
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