Technique or more power?

S

screeby

New member
Back story first. I have only dabbled with a Harbor Freight DA and HF 6" pads with Meguiars UP. While this combo created a "shiny" car, no real correction down to the levels you see in the pictures here.

I always assumed it was because I was using the HF pads. Recently I purchased a 5" back plate and 12 LC orange and white pads. This weekend I broke them out.

The results again were "shiny" but not the correction I had in my head. While the "expectations" were most probably not reachable. I catch an led light I still see swirls. If outside with the sun you have to search but they are there.

The other thing I found is that I had tje best luck with amd orange pad and UP. UC did not seems to give the results I was looking for nor the UP with a white pad.

What video(s) do I need to find amd watch, maybe again to ensure that I can fix if it is a technique issue. The other thing that I rolled through my head is a better machine. That may be it but many out there are using the HF machine and getting results. So I think it is technique.

Any ideas or particular video(s) I need to freshen up on?

Thanks if you made it through is much of my novel.

KM
 
You need more cut. Try some microfiber pads and possibly a more aggressive compound. Lots of love for Griots Fast Correcting Cream lately on the forums.
 
What year, make, and model of car you have? Also you may have to do it as a two or maybe even a 3 step process.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Great feedback above !!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not sure which Lake Country Orange Pads you purchased, but the Orange color pads are typically a "light cutting" pad..
The White color pads are more of a Polishing pad, less correction than the Orange pad..
The Yellow color pads have the most correcting ability..

Need to run that machine wide open to get the most Pad Rotation, which is where you get the most correction...

You have Meguiars Ultimate Polish which has less correction ability then their Ultimate Compound..
Dan F
 
Alright, now we are getting some dialogue. Seems like this is when I lesrn the most and get more confused at the same time.

I have LC flat pads so yes the orange is more agressive then the white. I did try the orange with UC and like I said, there wasnt much of any more correction but maybe what I was seeing was "hazing"?

The vehicle was a 2011 Ford F150, reddish maroon. This weekend I am going to tackle the wife`s 2014 metalic grey/silver Ford Explorer.

I do have a couple yellow pads but to be honest I really didnt think about them. Not sure if i just felt what I was running should get 90% of what I had to correct or what.

I guess in the back of my head I just didnt want to create a bigger mess and screw up. The Explorer is in a little better shape so maybe I can make myself two step it and see where I land. Doing both UC then UP on a test spot before 100% commitment.

Thanks for all the feed back thus far. Also I wasnt quite wide open on the machine. I will change that also.

KM
 
Move on to a microfiber pad for cutting. Also if you’re not cleaning your pad after every pass you’re getting residue buildup that won’t let you cut and may haze the paint. Also shrink the work area. With the Griot’s fast correction cream and a microfiber, that machine will work just fine.
 
More power never hurt :), but technique is key. Good advice above. I would add - ensure the pad keeps spinning and isn`t just vibrating. Put a reference line on the backing plate so it is easy to see rotation.

Nothing wrong the HF DA polisher or the Meguiars products you are using. Like others have mentioned you may want to try a more aggressive pad and a two step process (UC on a cut pad then UP on a polishing pad).
 
How many passes per sections do you do?

The normal passes is around 4-6 per sections. Then you have the armspeed. About an inch per second is a good guideline. Garry Dean is a big fan of the HF polisher. Look at some videos on Youtube and get a feel of the armspeed and other things you see.

The test spot with both UC and followed by the UP and get the best results with the pads you have. Have in mind if you don`t get satisfied with one test spot you move on to a new spot. After the compound you look at the deeper defects if you got them out. If you get a hazy finish it`s okay. But the bigger swirls should be corrected. Then it`s up to the UP combo to clear up the finish. After each section you can use a panel wipe product like Gyeon PREP or Carpro Eraser or gtechnic panel wipe. Then you see the true correction you have gotten.
 
screeby- I`ve never used the HF polisher, but have extensive experience with the similar PC. IME such machines are seriously lacking in power to the point that they`re not efficient for polishing most auto paint (effective? perhaps...if you have the time, but then doing it by hand is effective too if you spend countless hours at it). As a Cyclo owner, I was simply *shocked* by how poorly the PC performed..not even a close comparison and it`s not like the Cyclo is all that aggressive.

If you want to do significant correction with it, I`d use a 4" MF Cutting Disk with something quite aggressive like M101 (or the GG Fast Correction Creme).

I utterly despise the LC Yellow Foam Cutting Pads as they don`t cut as well as some others but scour the finish. If you want to use foam I`d go with the Meguiar`s Maroon ones, but the MF sure works better for me and is easier to keep clean.

As noted, full speed at all times when doing significant correction.

Remember to *THOROUGHLY* clean the pads quite frequently; I`d never do even a third of a panel (not even a small panel) without cleaning my Cutting Pad of cut-off clear and dried-up compound.

I always work relatively small areas when doing correction, certainly not as big as the 2` x 2` that some advocate.

BUT....I`d get a more potent machine. I simply *never* touch my PCs any more. I`d look into a forced-rotation model, or at least something with a longer throw.
 
Do yourself a favor and don’t run it at full speed, you’ll heat up the pads and destroy them. Unless you’re doing production work, stick with the machine you have until you get a bit more experience. You can burn clear with a large throw or forced rotation machine. Change your pads and product and you’ll be fine.
 
My cleaning of the pad was grabbing a mf and wrapping it around my finger and running it over the pad once or wmtwice while it was running.

That was done after every pass. A new pad for every panel/door, 2 on the hood.

I really thought I was gonna be "ok" with this set up. Maybe still can if I go with a different pad and UC followed by the white pad and UP.

Ha. Just funny how when ya really start diving in you learn how little ya know.

I also think the machine should be fine. Its one of thise deals where if it works for others why not me? Who knows. Nothing another Saturday in the garage wont fix and make me more confused.

KM
 
Mike lambert said:
Do yourself a favor and don’t run it at full speed, you’ll heat up the pads and destroy them. Unless you’re doing production work, stick with the machine you have until you get a bit more experience. You can burn clear with a large throw or forced rotation machine. Change your pads and product and you’ll be fine.
Click to expand...

Huh, interesting take, different experience here. I`ve never had the higher speeds trash my pads and often wonder why other people`s pads don`t last as long as mine do. Even my (supposedly fragile) Meguiar`s MF disks last for ages. My 4" pads from Cyclo sure don`t mind high speeds, even on a rotary that`s really cranked up.

He, maybe it`s a matter of different pads being more/less susceptible to such damage, that would explain a lot. My 3" GG pads haven`t had any problems so far, but they *are* a lot thicker than the Cyclo ones and thus I`d expect them to be more fragile.

Yeah, you can burn paint with anything; only time I did it was with PC/Cyclo Green/3M 05937 (!) on a (scheduled for repaint) panel I didn`t care about and was egregiously mistreating. But I sure never came *close* to burning anything with the Flex 3401 (or a rotary for that matter).

YMMV I guess...but it`s not like I haven`t been doing this stuff for decades so I`d think that any reasonable mistake or likely experience would`ve befallen me by now. OTOH, erring on the side of caution is better than having an irreparable "oops!"

Eh, once again I`m probably coming across as being contentious even though that`s not my intention.
 
How do Yal guys clean the microfiber and foam pads? On and off the machine. I’ve been cleaning the foam pads with dawn off the machine. Haven’t used the microfiber pad yet but I need to know the proper way to clean Thanks
 
Microfiber is best cleaned with compressed air. You can use a brush on both, but you’ll need to switch pads more frequently. Take a look at anything you can find from Kevin Brown on residue control.
 
Fishroes said:
How do Yal guys clean the microfiber and foam pads? On and off the machine. I’ve been cleaning the foam pads with dawn off the machine. Haven’t used the microfiber pad yet but I need to know the proper way to clean Thanks
Click to expand...

I use Foam Pads with a Makita Rotary, and clean them during the correction process, with a small white cotton towel that is in the cart. After every pass series on that spot, I wipe the white towel over the pad several times, and look at what came off on the towel, to help me know what is happening on the paint better.

I also like to keep the product and pad a little moist by spraying a little pad conditioner on it, before I start the work.. Chemical Guys makes a Pad Conditioner product, but its not sold in the Autopia Store.. Perhaps Autogeek has it ?

I like to keep it all a little moist to allow the product, paint, and pad, more time to get acquainted with each other, and have found this process always gives me great results. And I never get dusting from dried product all over the work.. :)
This also helps keep the pad temperature at a more even level, and that of course helps keep the paint temperature the same more even temp..

Technique -- I always run the pad with the product and a little moisture on the panel as long as possible, sometimes, I have to add a little more moisture if I think its ending too soon.. I want to break down the product as much as possible to get the most benefit from it.
The surface of that spot should be clearing up to the point that there is very little product on the spot..
I get the Pad to clean up all the stuff as much as possible at the end,, so there will be very little wiping needed and lessen the possibility of introducing more work to your work..
Then, as already said, wipe the foam pad down really well with a white cotton towel, look at the panel, decide if you need to go again, or move to the next spot on the panel..

I wash all pads in a cleaner made for foam pads by the very people that make the foam pads.. Snappy Clean powder... https://www.autopia-carcare.com/snappy-clean-powder.html#.W1esINXFj3g Never had a problem with it.. If its a lot of pads, I use the entire envelope in around 3-4 gallons of water in the bucket.. Less pads, perhaps half an envelope in 2.5-3 gallons of water..
You want to wear long gloves when cleaning, which will be holding them under, squeezing them several times, to help release the product, then perhaps turning them up in the water and using two hands, rubbing them against themselves to help loosen the product..

A lot of squeezing them under the solution, then when clean, rinsing them in a bucket of clean water or in the sink.. Have to really rinse them clean of all soap, etc... Snappy Clean is a no foaming product, which makes for less rinsing anyway...

I just set them on end in an empty cart in the garage to air dry... Can take 24+ hours or more depending on temps out there...

I tried microfiber when they first came out almost 15 years ago, and wasn`t too impressed by all the extra work they took to keep them clean; they seemed to wear out quickly, and they never finished down to near LSP ready.. And you had to have an air hose, fittings, air compressor, water trap, lines, extra 20amp outlet and extra 20amp breaker in your power panel, and the noise it makes when it turns on all the time.. Then there is dust blowing all over the place when you clean the pads.. And you have to carry the air hose around the entire vehicle with you..

Everyone here will have different results and processes to accomplish the same goal - great correction, clarity, gloss, in the shortest amount of time - especially if one is doing this for a living every day..

You will just have to figure out where you want to be in this and I promise you that you will be able to get great results if you put in the time and work..
Dan F
 
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I am not sure how I missed this post. I was doing the typical 4 - 6 overlapping passes. My arm speed may have been a bit quick.

For panel whip I was using the McKee`s 914 at proper dilution. It was my first time using it. Not sure if that is how it is supposed to work but the paint "looked" and "felt" clean, if that makes sense.

Thank you for the Gary Dean videos. I googled them and will be watching those as well to see if I am just doing something wrong.

Also, thank you again to everyone that responded. This place is pretty awesome for the help you can get from people.

KM

SWETM said:
How many passes per sections do you do?

The normal passes is around 4-6 per sections. Then you have the armspeed. About an inch per second is a good guideline. Garry Dean is a big fan of the HF polisher. Look at some videos on Youtube and get a feel of the armspeed and other things you see.

The test spot with both UC and followed by the UP and get the best results with the pads you have. Have in mind if you don`t get satisfied with one test spot you move on to a new spot. After the compound you look at the deeper defects if you got them out. If you get a hazy finish it`s okay. But the bigger swirls should be corrected. Then it`s up to the UP combo to clear up the finish. After each section you can use a panel wipe product like Gyeon PREP or Carpro Eraser or gtechnic panel wipe. Then you see the true correction you have gotten.
Click to expand...
 
Fishroes said:
How do Yal guys clean the microfiber and foam pads? On and off the machine. I’ve been cleaning the foam pads with dawn off the machine. Haven’t used the microfiber pad yet but I need to know the proper way to clean Thanks
Click to expand...

Mike lambert said:
Microfiber is best cleaned with compressed air.
Click to expand...
Exactly! So quick and easy you wouldn`t believe until you try it. I`d even recommend buying a cheapie compressor at HF next time they`re on sale if only for this application (though IMO every vehicle owner oughta have an air compressor anyhow).

I never liked using the Pad Cleaning Brushes all that much. If wiping the pads clean I use a cotton towel, although KB can make a good case for using MF instead (we agreed to disagree since neither of us considered the other truly "wrong" :D ).
 
screeby said:
My arm speed may have been a bit quick...
Click to expand...

IMO that`s almost certainly a clue that it`s a bit *too* quick ;)

You sure do want to keep it moving (if only because of heat), but I bet the vast majority of people go too quick even when they`re thinking about it.
 
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