Tape Residue Issue

G

GoCubsGo

New member
TITLE UPDATE: This should read as an Out-Gas issue.

EDIT: Pix Added

EDIT: Solution added (see post #20)





I need some help.



I taped (3M Scotch Blue with the orange "for delicate surfaces" interior label) off 2 small areas (6"x6" and 3"x3") on the hood of my DD, hit the areas with IPA and applied Dr. Colorchip. The Dr. Colorchip looks great, but I have tape residue that I can not clean up. I hit the tape residue areas with IPA, clayed and a couple of cleaner QD's and ONR at QD strength and it's still there. I'm not real happy with this and I don't want to break out the PC to remove the fallout, but I don't know what other options I have.



The tape was on the finish for a maximum of 90 minutes. The tape residue seems to be heavier in the areas where the IPA probably seeped under the tape.



History:

I did a 3 stage polish on the entire hood about 7 days ago and followed the polish with DWG, Jetseal 109 and Pete's 53 in case that helps.



Any advice/ideas ?





The camera doesn't really capture the damage very well, but it looks exactly like tape residue. Main issue is the surface is completely flat and the damage almost appears as if it is under the clear especially since I can not feel any change in texture on the surface.



TapeDamageII.jpg
 
I'd use 3M Adhesive Remover.



Yeah, IPA can effect a solvent action on tape adhesive. It'll usually clean up the resulting mess too, but when it doesn't I reach for the 3M stuff, which is just *SO* handy for all sorts of things.
 
Odd thing is I hit the affected area with IPA, no luck, clay, no luck, degreaser, no luck. There's actually no rea residue on the surface, it looks/feels more like the paint was etched. I did lay the tape on top of a sealed and waxed surface and it appears the tape adhesive and IPA somehow caused the etching. Aside from changing my tape and never laying tape on top of a sealed/waxed surface and hitting it with IPA again, has anyone ever seen or heard of anything like this before? Thx!
 
GoCubsGo said:
Odd thing is I hit the affected area with IPA, no luck, clay, no luck, degreaser, no luck. There's actually no residue on the surface, it looks/feels more like the paint was etched. I did lay the tape on top of a sealed and waxed surface and it appears the tape adhesive and IPA somehow caused the etching. Aside from changing my tape and never laying tape on top of a sealed/waxed surface and hitting it with IPA again, has anyone ever seen or heard of anything like this before? Thx!
Click to expand...



Hmm, the only time i see that is when vinyl stickers have been applied to a vehicle for business adverts etc & had been on for years,which in most cases wont come off ever! Had a job last month with an eagle on the hood which even after wetsanding/compounding did nothing,but in your case with the tape not being on it long id still try 2000 wetsand with plenty of lube.
 
So I hit the affected area with M105 (PC 7424 and 4" LC Orange pad) 3 applications and it improved, but not by much. I am leery of going at it anymore with M105 since the affected area previously had a few deep scratchs and is 5 or 6 M105 applications deep. Last thing I want to do is wetsand, but is that my only option?



BTW, here's what I tried (over the course of ~ a week) prior to M105.



1) ONR wash, no dice

2) Megs Gold Class wash, no dice

3) 4 different QD's, no dice

4) Vinegar/water, no dice

5) IPA/water, no dice

6) Clay, no dice

7) Goo Gone, no dice



:grrr:grrr:grrr
 
GoCubsGo said:
Odd thing is I hit the affected area with IPA, no luck, clay, no luck, degreaser, no luck. There's actually no rea residue on the surface, it looks/feels more like the paint was etched. I did lay the tape on top of a sealed and waxed surface and it appears the tape adhesive and IPA somehow caused the etching. Aside from changing my tape and never laying tape on top of a sealed/waxed surface and hitting it with IPA again, has anyone ever seen or heard of anything like this before? Thx!
Click to expand...





If you truly cannot feel any residue and the paint looks "etched", I have seen this before. I do not know if your paint is factory original or a repaint, so perhaps you can chime in.



OCCASIONALLY what can happen is this:

Many paint polishing guys know that heat or solvents can temporarily swell paint. This dynamic occurs as paint expands and contracts with the panel that the paint and primer are attached to. As far as we know, many solvents can enter into the paint, at least to a small degree.



Sometimes there are oils or solvents still present in the makeup of a wax/polymer/LSP (last step product) after it has been applied. This is especially true if the LSP has been recently applied. Normally, they flash off (or evaporate) after some time has passed. Additionally, if the surface was recently wiped with a wax and grease remover (or some other petroleum based wipe down liquid), some of the liquid could have penetrated into the paint.



Sooooo... if you recently waxed the car or used a wipe down solvent, or if the paint was not of the OEM variety, or if you used an abundance of heat around the taped area (a typical halogen light can transfer a lot of heat), then there is a possibility that some solvents were trapped under the tape. Then, as they "outgassed" or started to exit the paint structure via evaporation, they could not move past the tape, so they formed tiny little puddles underneath the tape, on top of the paint.



After some time, there is a possibility that these little pools of solvent could etch the paint, effectively dissolving very small amounts of the paint it was puddled upon. It is not common, but it certainly can happen. Sometimes, in extreme cases, you will actually see a bit of moisture or "sweat" as you remove the tape!



I am not saying this DID happen- just letting you know that it might be what you are seeing. This is based upon your assessment and your information stating that no visible residue exists, yet there seems to be some etching.



If the paint is original and you did not use lights that created extra heat (or you did not recently wax the area), perhaps this situation did not play out.



By the way- I use the same tape you did all the time, as well as the 3M Automotive green tape. The green tape was specifically designed for body shops, and it is able to withstand the temperatures reached in the spray booth & heat lamps. If this was a situation where trapped solvents and/or heat was introduced to the equation, it does not matter which tape you use. The result would have been the same if this scenario played out.



This situation is just one of the reasons I dislike using tape on paint. I do so if it is necessary, but I sure don't like it! I pull tape ASAP, especially on repaints, or when I am using a lot of extra lighting, or in hot environments, or when I have recently wiped the paint with a petroleum solvent polished using a buffing liquid heavy with solvents.
 
Kevin Brown said:
I pull tape ASAP, especially on repaints, or when I am using a lot of extra lighting, or in hot environments, or when I have recently wiped the paint with a petroleum solvent polished using a buffing liquid heavy with solvents.
Click to expand...





Good info Kevin. :bigups People should pay close attention to taping painted textured moldings and leaving the tape on for long periods of time (multiple days). I recently did a 88 Vette that had painted body side moldings and I tape each panel ala carte as I did them in fear of pulling up the paint with the tape.



I wonder if your theory can play an effect when people buff cars with vinyl graphics?
 
Kevin Brown said:
......if you recently waxed the car....some solvents were trapped under the tape. Then, as they "outgassed" or started to exit the paint structure via evaporation, they could not move past the tape, so they formed tiny little puddles underneath the tape, on top of the paint.

After some time, there is a possibility that these little pools of solvent could etch the paint, effectively dissolving very small amounts of the paint it was puddled upon. It is not common, but it certainly can happen. Sometimes, in extreme cases, you will actually see a bit of moisture or "sweat" as you remove the tape!
Click to expand...



Kevin,

It looks like this is exactly what happened. The paint is OEM and the tape was on for 30-45 minutes max, but I am guessing the wax or sealant's evaporation was rapidly accelerated when it came into contact with the IPA and it was unable to escape under the tape.

Not sure if this is the same type of situation, but I had an "etching" (via a bird) that happened right after I did my spring detail and it looked similar to what I am now seeing. Eventually the bird etching faded and now it is gone. I am hoping this is the case with the tape residue/IPA "etching", but only time will tell. Lesson learned.



Thanks a ton for taking the time to read my post and the great insight :xyxthumbs.
 
Pix added to original post, not sure if this helps confirm or oppose KB's diagnosis. Any idea's on how to get rid of this are welcome.

Thx!
 
Looks exactly as you described.

Again- this is only if there is NO residue of any kind of the paint surface (looks clean to me).



To 100% verify the type of paint damage, do this:



Scuff the surface with 3000 or 4000 grit wet sanding paper (you may even be able to use aggressive paint cleaning clay because it will often scratch a paint surface).

What you will see is a dulling of the highest points of the paint surface, while the lower points will remain glossy.



So... if the "pattern" still looks shiny, then it is lower than the rest of the paint surface.

If this is what you see, then you have 100% verified that the "pattern" is lower than the rest of the paint.



If you see the opposite (the "pattern" looks dull), then it is higher than the rest of the paint surface (highly unlikely).



Make sense? :hm
 
BTW, I saw you used the least aggressive 3M painters tape. Is that correct.......the stuff typically at Homes Depot/Lowes, et.al.?



I haven't seen the green tape that Kevin refers to, since I haven't been to a body shop/paint supply store, but thought that the blue ought to work. Almost all pictures I see of taping are with blue tape.



Have you used the green since he mentioned it? Was wondering about results?



I need to buy some tape, saw this thread & was wondering about "tape" recommendations. TYPE OF TAPE/MFR. & TYPICAL WIDTH?? (it all looks like 3M Blue Painters tape of one kind or another and 1"-1.5" width. Any other suggestions?



Thx for the input.



See ya. :wavey:



Also.............................GO YANKS!!





GoCubsGo said:
Kevin,

It looks like this is exactly what happened. The paint is OEM and the tape was on for 30-45 minutes max, but I am guessing the wax or sealant's evaporation was rapidly accelerated when it came into contact with the IPA and it was unable to escape under the tape.

Not sure if this is the same type of situation, but I had an "etching" (via a bird) that happened right after I did my spring detail and it looked similar to what I am now seeing. Eventually the bird etching faded and now it is gone. I am hoping this is the case with the tape residue/IPA "etching", but only time will tell. Lesson learned.



Thanks a ton for taking the time to read my post and the great insight :xyxthumbs.
Click to expand...
 
tenorplayer23 said:
BTW, I saw you used the least aggressive 3M painters tape. Is that correct.......the stuff typically at Homes Depot/Lowes, et.al.?



I haven't seen the green tape that Kevin refers to, since I haven't been to a body shop/paint supply store, but thought that the blue ought to work. Almost all pictures I see of taping are with blue tape.



Have you used the green since he mentioned it? Was wondering about results?



I need to buy some tape, saw this thread & was wondering about "tape" recommendations. TYPE OF TAPE/MFR. & TYPICAL WIDTH?? (it all looks like 3M Blue Painters tape of one kind or another and 1"-1.5" width. Any other suggestions?



Thx for the input.



See ya. :wavey:



Also.............................GO YANKS!!
Click to expand...



You can find the green automotive tape at most local auto parts stores (my local Autozone stocks it). Haven't used it yet, but after PM'ing with Kevin it looks like the tape was not the problem, it was me.



Summary of what seems to have happened

1) I had recently applied a glaze, sealant and wax.

2) They had not completely outgassed.

3) When I hit the area with IPA, the IPA caused a rapid outgassing.

4) Where the IPA seeped under the tape the outgassing had nowhere to go and caused the etching.



I haven't tried to fix it yet since I want to get some paint level readings but don't have a meter. Need to stop by a local buddy's place to get the readings before I proceed.











PS - My Cubs are done.............as always............wait 'til next year........again :(.
 
A big thanks to KB for all of his help and Ivan for taking some paint readings for me. This definitely was an out-gas issue.



I tried to clean it up with M105 a couple days after it first happened, but nothing, it was still there. Given my ride is parked in an underground garage and sits in a damp high humidity environment 23 hours a day I guess it just took some time to "air" out. 3 months later, just one pass with M105 on a 4" pad (PC7424) and it was finally corrected. This was such an eye sore. The before picture only captures a small section, just image two 3" x 6" out-gas "boxes" on your hood. My car is parked right under a nice big fluorescent light and the damage just stared at me everytime I walked by for 3+ months (drove me nuts). Good-bye and good riddance. Lesson learned.



Hope this can help someone else out in the future.



Out-Gas Damage:

TapeDamageII.jpg




Out-Gas Damage Corrected:

AFTER-OutGas.jpg
 
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