Taking the dSLR plunge....

J

JaCkaL829

it was my first time...
As my title states, I'm finally able to take the dSLR plunge. I put my current camera up for sale as a bundle on another forum about a month ago, and had interests but no offers. I bumped it maybe once or twice, then decided to do a final bump today. After an hour or two a well known member told me he'd like to buy it, so I'm now excited. It was a good camera overall, but I had planned on upgrading in the near future. I feel if I didn't sell it now, I'd probably never be able to sell it as technology gets outdated so fast, resulting in lower prices. I also wouldn't be able to afford a dSLR without selling my current one.



I've been studying and reviewing dSLRs for a couple months now; and have my selection narrowed down to the following two; Nikon D50 or Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D. I'd like to know if anybody is familiar with these two cameras or knows somebody who is, if they can give any input/advice on them? I really like how the D50 feels in my hand as well as its price and the fact that its a well-known company; but the Maxxum 5D has Anti-Shake (AS) technology which is still really tugging at me seeing how I'm trying to do more night shots as well as shot mostly handheld. Before the "Canon > all crowd" jumps in I'd like to say that I tried to get comfortable with the 350D, but its just way to small for my hands, not that I have a huge hands. Their lenses also seem a tad expensive. It also seems like other companies trying to compete with Canon/Nikon such as Pentax, Olympus, Fuji, etc. seem to have limited options and experience in the dSLR field.



This is also kind of a long shot as this is a detailing forum, not photography one, but if anyone has any experience with the Nikon 28-80mm f/3.3-5.6G AF Zoom-Nikkor lens, I'd love to hear it. I can get this lens with the D50 for around $550 shipped, which is the cheapest for a dSLR and lens I've seen. I've read few reviews on the lens, after some extensive googling. Some people say it performs surprisingly well, while some people say its so-so.



Any reviews/input/advice on the cameras or lens mentioned above would be greatly appreciated. I'll probably go to the electronics store one more time before ordering to hold them all out again, but I have a feeling the D50 will win again. :up
 
Go with what you like. I doubt you can go wrong with any of the current dSLRs on the market. I know what you mean when you say the Canon is too small, so it is a good thing you found a camera that you enjoy holding.
 
Ok well I have big hand and find my 350 small I know when i get around to etting the battery pack with the eatra botten it will fell perfect.. And as far as glass goes.. this is really a case of you get what you pay for. although carl-zisse will be making nikor lenses now but those will be Uber expensive. one thing that makes me leary is Secure Digital (SD) cards. they are WAY small and are more expensive and will not beable to keep up with the CF cards out now.. as far as that lens goes.. forget about it for night time. 2.4 f stop is what you should be looking for. i know because on the long end my lens is way slow. Anyways good luck..



(PS my sister has a d-70) so i have shoot a lot with this and the kit lens prior to buying the canon)
 
I'm a Nikon man myself, have been since my first film camera years ago.



Currently, I have a D70 and love it. I've been eyeballing a D200 lately and may take the plunge in the next few months.



Based on personal experience, I can tell you that Nikon glass is just as good as Canon in every way (anyone who says otherwise has never used the Nikon 70-200 2.8 IS lens).



The Minolta anti-shake system is very good, but there was a report late last year that Konica-Minolta was getting out of the SLR business (but other reports said that business was being bought by Sony).



holland_patrick is right about the memory cards, Compact Flash, while being an older format, is much more robust, less expensive, and is pretty much the de facto standard for dSLR cameras.



The D50 is a fine camera, but if I were in the market, I'd be more likely to try and track down a used D70 (via a place like B&H who goes over their used equipment extremely well).



Nikon and Canon both make great cameras, and both will give you fantastic results, it comes down to what you feel comfortable using. If it's uncomfortable to shoot with, you're less likely to use it.



If you get a Nikon (whichever model), I HIGHLY recommend spending the under $100 it would cost to get the Nikon 50mm 1.8 lens. It's the best $89 I ever spent on camera equipment. The images that lens can produce are some of the sharpest I've ever seen.



Also, another recommendation, spend the money on getting yourself a decent tripod. Don't buy one of the all in one jobs from Target or Wal-Mart or some such. But you also don't need the most expensive thing out there (hell some tripods will cost you almost a thousand bucks just for the legs). I'm using a Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod that cost me $300 and a ball head that cost me $100, it may sound pricey, but it's solid as a rock and holds my 80-400 lens securely (I'd like to replace the ball-head with one that doesn't move when I tighten it down, but that can wait).



Okay, I'm done rambling.
 
Well John, the news is that Konica/Minolta is now owned by Sony. I doubt you will find the K/M cameras around for much longer but they are probably a great bargain right now. Sony has assumed the warranty repair for these cameras. I'd not shy away from one just because they were bought by Sony. I would however suggest looking for info on your choices at one or more of these sites for starters.



http://www.dpreview.com/

http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/?source=google&kw=digital+camera+reviews

http://www.dcresource.com/

http://www.steves-digicams.com/

http://www.dcviews.com/

http://www.imaging-resource.com/

http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Digital_cameras/2001-6501_16-0.html?tag=ont-cam

http://www.pcphotoreview.com/

http://reviews.cnet.com/Digital_cameras/2001-6501_7-0.html



Some of these sites have user forums where you can find out a lot about a particular model before you buy. Don't just rely on the reviews. Actual user feedback is also a good indicator of how happy you will be with the camera you choose. Also pay attention to where members are purchasing their cameras. There are a lot of dishonest camera stores out there advertising cheap prices.



Lastly, I'd suggest you also consider some of the newer EVF models too. For example, you can buy a Konica/Minolta DiMAGE Z6 with an optical 12x 35mm-420mm equiv. lens and Image Stabilization for under $300.



One final thought,...before you buy any model, go to a B&M store and handle the models you are interested in. Ask the store if you can take it outside and take some shots. See how useful the LCD is in direct sunlight. Check how fast you can take multiple pictures. How fast is the AF? See if you like the weight and bulk of the models. How easy and intuitive are the controls? You get the picture.
 
I just picked up the canon 50mm 1.8 and i garrge that it's a great prime lens to use..

IMG_4578.jpg
 
Between the Nikon and the Minolta I'd go Nikon just for the lenses. I doubt that anybody ever begrudged money spent for better lenses, and yeah, you're gonna want a nice wide aperture to see what's going on in low light (even if you don't expose wide open). And since you like photography in a pretty serious way, you might even want to consider renting some Nikon glass for special occasions (there are a lot of Nikon rental places).



And yeah#2, get a good tripod and a good ballhead/quick-release plate system. Anti-vibration/image stabilization is good for hand holding, but a sturdy (mechanical) support system still rules the roost IMO.
 
I went down the same path you did last summer. Of the two you listed I'd go with the Nikon. There will be a greater selection of lenses, and online support. The one problem with the Nikon is that the lenses aren't the greatest, so the photos tend to be a little dull. You can overcome that with some post processing tweaking.

I would caution that with a DSLR you will have to post process more than a point and shoot. P&S cameras are already teaked with contrast, saturation, etc... settings. A DSLR will capture exactly what is there and nothing else. It's up to you to tweak the pictures.



If you buy something, consider using these folks for an extended warranty.

Compuplus.com



They sell the Mack Extended warraties for dirt cheap.



On that note Butterflyphoto.com offers great prices on DSLRs.



I ended up with a RebelXT. I can palm a basketball, but I found after using the XT for a couple days it fit very well.. But each to his own. You're doing the right thing by doing your homework on this. DLSRs aren't for everyone thats for sure. It's much easier to just point and shoot for most people.



I found http://www.dpreview.com/forums/ to be very informative. There are some great comparisons that are done, and some very skilled photographers that answer questions.



Have fun! :D
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, Patrick thats a great shot of your "lil detailer". :up



I don't really see a problem with the SD card vs the CF card. I actually have 2 512 MB Ultra 2 cards that I planned on using. I've also read a couple good things about the Nikon 50mm prime lens. I think I'd probably pick one up as well as a long telephoto if I went that route. I also have a pretty nice velbon tripod from my father. Nothing to crazy but seems like a sturdy unit and has the quick disconnect. I also agree with you Accumulator AS is a very nice feature, but won't replace the tripod. I never heard of the Nikon rental thing, but I guess that would be another reason to lean towards the D50 side. As for all the forums I frequent them a little too much. Just trying to get some opinions from any users on the boards.



chpsk8: I'm sure I can get good results with one of these entry level dSLRs in Auto, like a P+S, but as you said I would like to learn more post processing skills, as well as pre processing. I've seen some stuff people do on another forum post processing, and its truly incredible the images they come up with from P+S or beginner dSLRs.



I still have to talk to my grandfather because I know hes into photography and buying and selling equipment. If he has some lenses that would work with these cameras that might sway my decision to. I originally considering the Pentax dSLR just because my father has some older lenses but when I looked them up online they we're going for like $15-20, so I said forget it.
 
Still haven't gone to the store yet to get one more feel for all the cameras, but my mind is pretty much made up on the D50. I will probably go Thursday after class to get one more final feel of all the cameras though. I was considering get the 28-80mm lens seeing how it would only add an additional $55 to the lowest body price for the D50, as well as purchasing the 50mm f1.8 lens. But with the 1.5 crop factor on digitals my 28-80 turns into a 42-120mm which isn't to wide, and would be impossible to shoot indoors. Seeing how I plan on getting a larger telephoto lens, most likely the 70-300mm, I think I'm just going to go with the 18-55mm outfit kit for the D50. I'll be spending more money upfront, but I think it would give me a way better range. I also don't plan on getting a wide angle lens, so I think having the 18-55mm would be a better choice than the 28-80mm.



btw if anyone knows of any good, un-biased reviews for Lenses, I'd appreciate it. :xyxthumbs

I did some googling and couldn't find too many. It seems like Fred Miranda only has reviews for the more expensive glass, and I've read from a bunch of different sources that Ken Rockwell is extremely biased with his reviews.



I'll keep you guys updated on my final decision though.
 
Can't help with a good place for lens reviews, but I will encourage you to spend the money for the best lenses you can get. IMO you won't regret getting the best glass you can, and for the 50 I'd get something even faster. My eyes are lot older than yours, but leses with another stop (which I hardly ever use for the actual exposure) are a *lot* easier for me to use in less-than-bright light. Yeah, that 1.5x factor is something you have to work around, especially when it comes to wides...



Check out used lenses. You can get some great bargains at places like KEH
 
Please keep us posted on your purchase/review.



Recently, I have also been doing some dSLR research.

I am also looking at the Minolta 5D (I heard that their

anti-shake tech thingie really, really works well - good for a

twitchy guy like me).

I really miss my old SLR. On the other hand it was such a chore

to lug the darn thing around (with 3 separate lenses - what a pain!).



I agree with Accumulator - lenses are everything. But have you seen

the prices of good lenses. :nervous2:

Sadly, lenses are not subjected to Moore's law.

If it is on the same price curve as the flash memory, a high quality 35mm

lens would cost like 25 cents.
 
Here's my long, but thorough review of the ergonomics of the dSLRs I was considering. I'd definately recommend any potential camera buyer who is spending a pretty penny to go to a retail store and feel them all out before ordering online. It can make a big difference, as I realized last night.



So last night I took a ride to Electronics-Expo with my brother to get one more final feel of the cameras I've been considering. I actually got lucky because there was an older couple looking at cameras too, and the salesman was a real scumbag trying to milk them for all their money, but he was too preoccupied with them to tell us about all his "speical deals" so we we're unbothered. I first played around with the Nikon D50, once again it had a really nice, comfortable feel in my hand. All the controls felt nicely layed out, and the shutter position was perfect. Up next was the Canon Digital Rebel XT. It was still a little cramped on my hands, but I'm sure its tollerable. My pointer finger also had to bent up everytime I pressed the shutter, which I'm sure would get real uncomfortable and sore after a while. Lastly, I held the Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D. This had a bigger feel than the Canon, but was in an odd square shape. I felt like I was holding a box or a brick. My one gripe with the ergonomics aside from the odd square feeling, was where my pointer finger lied was on some other button, right in front of the shutter. So everytime I had to press the shutter I'd have to move my finger off the button its lying on and move it back to the shutter. I was going to play around with the Pentax, but it was getting late and I wanted to bounce before the scumbag salesman finished up with the older couple, so he didn't rope me in. I also don't think the Pentax dSLR shines in any particular category; no AS, no wide selection of lenses, seems like the company is just hanging on to stay in business, etc.



So theres my thoughs on the ergonomics of each camera. You can say my thoughs were somewhat biased because I went into the store with my mind pretty much set on the Nikon D50, but I brough my brother with me and his thoughs were the same as mine.



So now that my mind is set on the Nikon D50, the whole "what lens do I get" question comes up. I was thinking just get the 18-55mm outfit kit and pick up the 50mm prime lens. I'm now thinking I should hold off on the 50mm prime for a later time, and get the 18-70mm lens that comes with the Nikon D70. The lens is like double the price, but I've read lots of favorable things about it over the 18-55mm. Its suppose to be a lot better than the 18-55mm. Also in the store the 18-55mm on the Nikon D50 seemed a little lacking for me, and it really showed when I was playing with the Konica Minolta Maxxum 5D which had a 18-70mm lens on it. I think it would be a smarter move to initally buy the better 18-70mm lens than to save money at first with the 18-55mm but later down the road want to upgrade it. The extra 15mm would also make this lens a better candidate for a "walk-around lens" than the 18-55mm. I just gotta find a Nikon D50 body and the 18-70mm lens at a reasonable price, and hopefully from the same store. Right now Amazon is looking the best with all the savings and sales they usually offer.
 
You're going about this is the right way :xyxthumbs FWIW, the whole "how it handles" ergonomics thing is what prompted me to buy my current SLR. It really *does* matter!



I looked into the Nikon lenses a bit when I was tempted to get one of their DSLRs myself. I'd definitely get the better (18-70) zoom. I've played around with one a bit (buddy has one on his D70) and while I'm a prime-lens sorta guy I must say that zoom seemed *really* good for the DSLR application. Handles nice too.



Considering the crop-factor, maybe a 50 isn't the optimal prime to get anyhow. When I get a digital back for my wife's SLR (it'd be a 1.3 factor) I might go with a 35 instead. I shoot a 60 as my primary prime on a 35mm, so I don't mind a little length, but I just "think in terms of 50-60mm" if you know what I mean; getting up towards a 75 would make me feel like I oughta take a few steps back every time I look through the viewfinder. After you play with the zoom you'll find what focal length *you* tend to "think in terms of"/visualize and then you'll be more likely to get the right prime the first time. Just a thought.
 
I currently have the D70 with 3 lenses......I LOVE IT!!! best camera ever!!!!



I would say cough up the extra $$$$ and get a D70...I've never used the D50 but from what I hear it's like buying a Honda vs an Acura...
 
NT2SHBBY said:
I currently have the D70 with 3 lenses......I LOVE IT!!! best camera ever!!!!



I would say cough up the extra $$$$ and get a D70...I've never used the D50 but from what I hear it's like buying a Honda vs an Acura...
Click to expand...



I can't afford a D70 right now, I know the D50 lacks some features the D70 has, but when it comes down to it image quality is very similiar which is the most important thing to me. Besides if its like a Honda vs an Acura, I'd be happy with the Honda. Aside from the Acura badges on my RSX, everything else says Honda on it :o
 
JohnnyDaJackal said:
I can't afford a D70 right now, I know the D50 lacks some features the D70 has, but when it comes down to it image quality is very similiar which is the most important thing to me. Besides if its like a Honda vs an Acura, I'd be happy with the Honda. Aside from the Acura badges on my RSX, everything else says Honda on it :o
Click to expand...



Most of the features that are lacking on the D50, you probably wouldn't use too often anyway, unless you're very serious about your photography (i.e DOF preview button and such).



I'm VERY happy with my D70, but I'd love to trade up to a D200, unfortunately, it's just not in the budget right now. Oh well. :)
 
ET Awful said:
Most of the features that are lacking on the D50, you probably wouldn't use too often anyway, unless you're very serious about your photography (i.e DOF preview button and such).



I'm VERY happy with my D70, but I'd love to trade up to a D200, unfortunately, it's just not in the budget right now. Oh well. :)
Click to expand...



Ya DOF is one feature I would like, but for the price/image quality of the D50 I'm just gonna have to accept it. The D200 is pretty nice, with 10meg pictures blown up must look great. Unfortunately its impossible to keep up with technology, just when you think you have the latest and greatest piece of equipment, technology always seems to rear its head and come out with something even better, tempting you to upgrade. :nervous:
 
yet again another update....



Well I was pretty set on getting the Nikon D50 w/ 28-80mm lens. After seeing how lacking the 18-55mm was in store, and how much money I saved I though it was a pretty good move. So I talk to my best friend's father about it and seems like the deal at Abe's seemd good. For the camera and lens it would have cost me $545 shipped. He did tell me to ask a couple guys in the photo club for one guy's store website. Apparently he gives some discounts to the club. I knew it wouldn't be able to beat Abe's, but figured I ask anyway. So one guy gives me the low down on all the stores and asks me what I was buying. When I told him I was going to go with the D50 at Abe's he ended up calling my friend's father to tell me not to order it, he couldn't get in contact with me over e-mail for some reason. He's giving me all the reasons to go with Canon, and how buying a cheaper lens will just kill my shots, yada yada yada. He's also telling me most people in the club have Canon so people are always selling stuff.



So I'm now considering the Canon route. The Digital Rebel XT is out of my price range, not to mention I was a little cramped with it. Well to my luck they have the previous model, Digital Rebel, for a little cheaper and its actually a little bigger. I have yet to hold one, but judging from side-by-side pictures it seems signficantly bigger around the grip, which is where it was tight on the Rebel XT. So I'm now considering that body with the Canon 28-105mm f3.5 USM lens. After racking my brains out looking at the Canon lenses, this one seems like what I'm looking for at my budget. I read really good things about it on fredmiranda and it seems like a good walk-around lens, and another bonus is the macro function. That would cost me more than I wanted to spend, but if it means I'll be better off in the long road I don't mind.



I now want to call this one guy and ask him what he thinks of this setup. I'm pretty limited with my budget, and I don't have money to throw around for L lenses like him.
 
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