System One? Jay Leno

David Fermani said:
So, if you do the 2 System One steps and super final finish out with a micro polish (106ff / Ultrafina, etc), is that end result any different than using any other system or product combo? If not, I can see a possiblilty of this product/system saving alot of time?



David: In my case, it does because the dealer insisted on a power wash X 3 with the 3M products. Now, I have a single wash. The shop is not very well layed out in terms of efficiency (but, it's not my shop so all I do is give my opinion) and power washing a car that is on the lift involves moving other inventory, etc...



You and VASuperShine are correct on a 3 step process being the same as far as products go. I've used the Meg's to Menzerna with great results too. This just simplifies my product inventory and is pretty easy to use in the shop.



Toto
 
Toto, which of the 3m compounds are you talking about?



The Super cut that's brown with white label and very gritty to the feel?



3m has many more that are capable of removing sanding scratches without the harshness of the "1 of many" compounds you speak of.
 
VaSuperShine said:
Toto, which of the 3m compounds are you talking about?



The Super cut that's brown with white label and very gritty to the feel?



3m has many more that are capable of removing sanding scratches without the harshness of the "1 of many" compounds you speak of.



The bottle I have is called Perfect-It Extra Cut: nasty smell and very gritty feeling.



I also have their new Perfect-It Mild compound since our stock of Perfect-It II has depleted (which was a light brown slightly gritty item as well).



Then the shop has 3M Swirl Remover which replaces the Dark Glaze I used to use.



And finally, the Ultrafina SE and blue pads.



Toto
 
VaSuperShine said:
Not to take this out of context but what's so impressive about sanding paint down and removing it with the same product you finish with? I would advise you try out the same routine with pretty much ANY polish you have in your collection.



Step one: Wetsand with 2000 grit paper ( Well that's more than one step but those who know how it's pretty open shut)



Step two: Polish with ____(insert polish there) and a wool pad



Step three: Polish with same product, and finishing pad.



Pretty simple, and the good thing is most high end polishes many of you all have in your garage will to the trick. Have fun.

I don't want to get into a heated debate here but I just thought that I would offer an answer to these points.



There are in indeed many polishes out there that accomplish parts of what SYSTEM ONE does IMHO. But I haven't found ONE product that does it all. The three steps you mention above would probably be possible with OP, or perhaps with others but there are other great features of SYSTEM ONE. I'll name two that come to mind... 1) it was designed to work on ceramiclears. That already eliminates MOST polishes. The few new Menzerna polishes are some of the only ones I know that specifically were designed to cut on these harder CC. Granted, you can find polishes that will cut ceramiclears, we all know that SIP/106FF does a much better job at it... because that is what they were designed to do. 2) SYSTEM ONE works in direct sun and on surface temperatures in excess of 170F. This is demonstrated in one of their videos that you can download. Here again, we can probably find a few polishes that can do that too. The point here is that X3 does it all... or at least more than I have seen any other polish do on the market right now.



BTW, word has it someone who attended one of the SYSTEM ONE demos was immature enough to write "you suck" on the demo hood that was being used. I must say that I would be embarrassed for that person if they are a part of this community. What a poor representation on the character of people in our industry. That's the kind of personalities and attitudes that make it difficult sometime to get top dollar for top notch detailing work. Too many customers have been exposed to "these guys". :angry
 
danponjican said:
I don't want to get into a heated debate here but I just thought that I would offer an answer to these points.



There are in indeed many polishes out there that accomplish parts of what SYSTEM ONE does IMHO. But I haven't found ONE product that does it all. The three steps you mention above would probably be possible with OP, or perhaps with others but there are other great features of SYSTEM ONE. I'll name two that come to mind... 1) it was designed to work on ceramiclears. That already eliminates MOST polishes. The few new Menzerna polishes are some of the only ones I know that specifically were designed to cut on these harder CC. Granted, you can find polishes that will cut ceramiclears, we all know that SIP/106FF does a much better job at it... because that is what they were designed to do. 2) SYSTEM ONE works in direct sun and on surface temperatures in excess of 170F. This is demonstrated in one of their videos that you can download. Here again, we can probably find a few polishes that can do that too. The point here is that X3 does it all... or at least more than I have seen any other polish do on the market right now.



BTW, word has it someone who attended one of the SYSTEM ONE demos was immature enough to write "you suck" on the demo hood that was being used. I must say that I would be embarrassed for that person if they are a part of this community. What a poor representation on the character of people in our industry. That's the kind of personalities and attitudes that make it difficult sometime to get top dollar for top notch detailing work. Too many customers have been exposed to "these guys". :angry





There are a lot of holes and slightly misinformation in your post, but I am not going to elaborate, I'd prefer to leave it as is.



I don't know who would do the immature act you spoke of, perhaps if I was at the show, I might have been able to spot the culprit for you.
 
VaSuperShine said:
There are a lot of holes and slightly misinformation in your post, but I am not going to elaborate, I'd prefer to leave it as is.



I don't know who would do the immature act you spoke of, perhaps if I was at the show, I might have been able to spot the culprit for you.



Why not elaborate? We're all here to benefit from each others experience and expertise. I, for one, am very interested in this discussion and would like to know what the "holes and misinformation" in danponjican's post are.
 
This is Todd, I am at Brian's house right now, but I will answer for the question. For a non diminishing abrasive to finish out perfectly, it has to be very small and fine in cut. It has to be as fine as any finishing polish (when that finishing polish is fully broken down). So when you use it with a wool pad to cut, you are relying on the cut of the pad vs. the cut of the polish to do the work.



Take UF or P085d for example, which both are ultra fine polishes, that break down ultra fine. I could use either of those with a wool pad to get a comparable level of cut as what system one would provide (system one would probably provide less cut because of the ultra fine non diminishing abrasives), then switch to a foam pad and finish out. There is nothing wrong with this, but I prefer to use my experience and the versatility of having different levels of cut to do the job faster.



I have used OP, 106ff, and UF to cut, compound, polish, and finish paints, so what is the difference. As long as the product breaks down fine enough, you can always rely on the pad and rpm for cut.



If you purpose is to cut, then use a cutting compound and a cutting pad and you will get faster results. If your purpose is to polish then use a polishing pad and product and so on and so on.



I was also at the seminar and some of the misinformation that was quoted was seriously terrible. First, the guy (don't know his name) drew this picture that made it look like diminishing abrasives where so huge that they remove half the clear coat in one pass. Then he said that Ferrari's have ceramic clears, and it just got worse. He was a body shop guy, not a detailer, and his delivery was as such. It was really a terrible seminar full of BS.



The worst (and dumbest thing) he said was that diminishing abrasives are not engineered. I know for a fact that Menzerna has spent more money in developing the sharpness, grit, and structure of their abrasives then this company has made. High end abrasives are engineered very specifically and it was utterly laughable when he made this comment.



All that system one is very fine abrasives (think broken down), with a sun friendly lubricant system, and a terrible marketer who is clearly going after the body shop industry by spewing a ton of misinformation. I would welcome a debate with him anytime, and there are some many people out there that know so much more then me and I would own him.



That said, who ever wrote that on the panel is a joke as well.
 
VaSuperShine said:
Then he said that Ferrari's have ceramic clears, and it just got worse.

AFAIK, Ferrari uses PPG's Ceramiclear and has been for a couple of years. A Google search seems to support that. Here's an excerpt from a press release, when Ferrari chose PPG as it's sole supplier back in 2005:



PPG supplies the revolutionary OE CeramiClearâ„¢ as part of the on line coatings supply. PPG OE CeramiClearâ„¢ is a mar and scratch resistant high solid clearcoat. It has excellent surface properties that, when compared with conventional clearcoats, give better protection against scratches from abrasives such as an automatic car wash, therefore preserving the high gloss finish for longer.



All Ferrari vehicles painted at the new paint shop can be identified by a new paint label (WB in the colour code), which will highlight to a refinisher the need to use PPG products in the repair process.
 
From my understanding, only certain colors on new Ferrari's feature cermic, not all, and from experience with them, they are not hard or similar to MB paint in the least.
 
Did anyone looked at Sean's work on the 2007 Ferrari using a PC. From his pic's it looks great. And as far as i was told also not all Ferrari's have that super hard finish.
 
TH0001 said:
From my understanding, only certain colors on new Ferrari's feature cermic, not all, and from experience with them, they are not hard or similar to MB paint in the least.
I was defending the comment "Ferrari's have ceramic clears". Sounds like they do, so his comment is not false.



However, I have not found anything to confirm (or deny) the notion that they are only used on certain colors. PPG's press release was not specific, except that PPG is Ferrari's sole source of paint.
 
zoomzoom mazda5 said:
Did anyone looked at Sean's work on the 2007 Ferrari using a PC. From his pic's it looks great. And as far as i was told also not all Ferrari's have that super hard finish.



Who's Sean and where can I find his pics :confused:
 
flaco said:
I was defending the comment "Ferrari's have ceramic clears". Sounds like they do, so his comment is not false.



However, I have not found anything to confirm (or deny) the notion that they are only used on certain colors. PPG's press release was not specific, except that PPG is Ferrari's sole source of paint.



Thats fine, but I have probably polished 20 or so Ferrari F430's in the last 5 months and only one had anything resembling a difficult clearcoat (the rest where softer)...



Eitherways, the guy was still a moron IMO.
 
jesselyons2002 said:
Getting this and going to try it on my moms vans oxidize paint.





You will not be dissapointed !!! Top it with the Ultima paint Guard and you will have an awesome look !!!
 
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