Swirls from Turtle Wax premium polishing compound :(

R

rmzalbar

New member
Short version:

I'm clueless and I've never detailed anything aside from simple washing and waxing. I rubbed down my car by hand with Turtle Wax PREMIUM polishing compound (liquid, not green can.) Overall it looks better, except now I have mild swirling I can notice in bright sunlight. Can I remove this by hand, and how?





Details:

My hyundai elantra is almost 5 years old now. I washed it rarely and waxed it nearly never, it's never seen the inside of a garage. Recently I became fixated on at least taking care of the thing properly as it's served me perfectly over the years.



Color: ocean blue (a metallic clearcoat blue with some green content)



Paint damage: water spot etching. A couple spots of superficial oxidation on the roof. Some velocity chips up front. Bird/bug etching (mainly on the hood.) No swirls whatsoever.



I did some reading and decided:



- wash with dawn until completely clean

- vinegar, rinse

- clay bar

- spot scratch repair (scratch-x)

- polishing to remove oxidation and improve water spots, clean paint.

- klasse AIO

- wax, then maintain.



All by hand.



When I got to the polishing step, I went to Kragen's and bought what I thought would be appropriate, Turtle Wax Premium Polishing Compound. I read the back and it assured me it would clean and correct mild defects, do no damage to the finish, and leave a finished surface etc, and could be applied by machine or by HAND.



I used a cheap terry towel at first, then switched to a microfiber applicator. I tried it on the oxidation and water spots, and it made them disappear right away. I decided to give the entire car a quick rub to improve the water spots and clean the paint before sealant.



In the darkness of the evening, it looked very shiny. In the light of the morning sun.. fine sparkles of left-to-right swirls (fortunately I buffed in the direction of travel.)



I've given the car a final dawn wash to get off any residue/lubricants, then gone ahead and put the sealant on anyway to protect things while I think about what to do.



Really, it looks good except in sunlight it's noticeable to me and it's bothering me. I'm willing to work a small part of the car at a time by hand over time until it's gone. I need to know what products to use and what technique. foam applicator? circles? back and forth? etc. I'm more interested in micropolishing the swirls out than merely filling them in with glaze. They don't seem anywhere near as deep or drastic like I've seen in photos here and are barely noticeable. At least it was polishing compound and not rubbing compound I used!



Thank you for any help.



Rob
 
Sounds like pressure from your fingertips caused the problem. You have to keep your hand flat and work the product until it is nearly clear, then wipe off and inspect your work.



Take it from someone who polished cars by hand for nearly 10 years professionally before using a buffer, invest in a quality buffer like the Porter Cable or the UDM. You cannot polish as deeply and evenly by hand than you can with a good polisher.
 
Well, sounds like you have your work cut out for you if you are going to do this by hand. If it were me, I would look at a kit similar to this - Porter Cable 7424 Car Buffer, 7424 Polisher



This is probably everything you would need to correct your car (from what you are describing anyways), and the only other thing you would need to buy is your clay/lube and sealant or wax. This is definitely worth the $170, and MUCH better than doing the entire car by hand....plus, you will get better results with the machine.
 
Scottwax said:
Take it from someone who polished cars by hand for nearly 10 years professionally before using a buffer, invest in a quality buffer like the Porter Cable or the UDM. You cannot polish as deeply and evenly by hand than you can with a good polisher.
Click to expand...



You really did that? I didn't have the patience. I tried polishing by hand once on a BMW clear and gave up and ordered a proper buffer.
 
Holden_C04 said:
[ScottWax] really did that?
Click to expand...



And note that he was doing it as a well-booked pro too, this wasn't a case of a DIYer spending days doing a by-hand correction now and then ;)



rmzalbar- Sounds to me like you just need to use something milder than the TW Polishing Compound. I dunno what an OTC solution would be, but it's not all that unusual for a harsh product to leave light hazing that is then removed by following up with a milder (yet still abrasive) product.



In the future (besides avoiding TW-branded products ;) ) you might want to use a less/non-abrasive paint cleaner for jobs like that. Even the commonly available Meguiar's Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner might've done the job. No point in using abrasives unless you're correcting marring (scratches/swirls/etc.).



Oh, and Welcome To Autopia!
 
Accumulator said:
In the future (besides avoiding TW-branded products ;) ) you might want to use a less/non-abrasive paint cleaner for jobs like that.
Click to expand...



+1. Reminds me of liquid sandpaper and creates a big ole mess somebody's gonna have to clean up [cringe].



Get a machine, get gentle products, enjoy a beautiful finish :)



Welcome aboard, RM !
 
One over the counter polish that works pretty well is Mothers Power Polish. It's pretty mild compared to some others, and you don't usually hear much about it, but it worked well for me when I first got my PC. I've since found others that work faster for me, but I had to order those online.
 
first off:



Welcome to the forum!



Secondly:

I used the same compound as my first starter and I really dislike the stuff. On soft paint, I would assume your cars paint is soft, it marred the finish. I think there are better choices that are more userfriendly.



If you want to keep your car looking good I would follow the advice of the others above, get a machine and some pads, and some samples of polishes from people here. You will quickly learn we are all full of opinions and advice around here.



Cheers,

GREG
 
'Guys, thank you for all the replies and welcoming me to the forum.\r\n\r\nI took a brief stab at trying to photograph the swirls but haven\'t been able to - they must be pretty fine. I\'m the only one who notices them.\r\n\r\nThe paint cleaner suggestions are also much appreciated. When I walked into the auto store I didn\'t see anything that suggested to me it would make a good paint cleaner, so I figured whatever seemed to be the mildest abrasive and not a filler/glaze/wax crap would be good enough. I wish there was some way to tell what something actually IS through the marketingspeak on the back of the container.\r\n\r\nI tend to pick up micro-hobbies, go after them intensely for a while, then drop them completely after I achieve some degree of mastery. It annoys everyone around me, but being aware that I do this, I\'m hesitant to buy a machine I\'ll only use once or twice on my own car. Also, the dentist needs to get most of my spare dollars.\r\n\r\nBut I do need some simple work to do to occupy me - and I\'m curious to see how hand-polishing will go. Menzerna FPII maybe?'
 
Thank you for the replies, guys.



Turns out my roomate wants me to learn the ropes and then do both our cars plus his bike, so with his partial backing I have a UDM starter kit (with several pads from orange to blue) and a menzera IP/FPII combo kit on the way to add to what I already have.



His car is a red, clear-coat (multi-stage repaint by unknown body shop) and looks like it's been sandpapered with all the swirling he put in it somehow. i was able to get ~85% of the swirling out on a test spot with a few hand applications of megs scratch-x. I hope this is doable.



His bike's fuel tank (lightly flaked BLACK) came perfectly swirl-free with scratch-x, so I know that one will turn out allright!
 
rmzalbar- The UDM/Menzerna oughta serve you well. And I think you'll find that you get plenty of use out of this stuff. In my case, it's not really a hobby but rather an occasional chore, and having a good machine will help make that chore easier for you to do (besides the better results). Heh heh, I'm kinda the Autopian Heretic because I don't really find this stuff enjoyable, but if you gotta do something you might as well do it right.
 
Haha, I'm with you Accumulator. I love seeing a perfect finish at the end, and I do enjoy waxing, but to me the polishing is just a pain in the butt.
 
I just learned firsthand what a pain in the butt black finish is.



Did my roommate's bike (superhawk with black flake tank, black tail and nose fairings) with UDM. had SFX-1, menzerna IP and FPII, SFX spot pad kit.



I played around a lot and found that SFX-1 has better cut than IP, but breaks down very quickly with the UDM. It actually finishes down nicer than IP! I was able to skip the IP step and go straight from SFX-1 to FPII.



After FP-II the finish is so clear that touching it with your hand, fingers, a towel that's not impossibly clean puts fine swirls you can see, swirls you'd never have noticed if you hadn't finished with FPII.



I couldn't even apply KAIO/SG without introducing swirls. Maybe instead of doing it by hand I should try a finishing pad on the UDM to apply it, and a brand new bonnet to remove.



Looks awesome though. My roommate can't believe I was able to do this to his bike.
 
DON'T throw out the Scratch X as someone suggested. Thats a good product. You just need to inspect your work carefully with this, as it has lots of fillers/oils, and its hard to tell how well you are actually doing. Scratch X on a Meg's foam pad is great around door handles.



Accumulator I'm actually like you. I don't enjoy detailing. But I love the end result. Actually, I still LSP by hand, as I like that step, and I do find that kind of therapeutic as there are no machines running. I enjoy treating leather seats too. I collect as many leather conditioners as some guys collect waxes :)



RMZALBAR There really isn't anything from Turtle wax worth getting. I hate saying this, as Im open to all brands, but I have found nothing in TW's lineup that was a standout at its pricerange. Their glass polishing towels are good, and easy to find, so that may be one. But even their newest synthetic paste is eclipsedaway by NXT. NXT lasts longer and hides more. And now theres NXT 2.0.



When you are starting with a machine, take your time and learn the basic principles of polishing. You'll progress much quicker then if your main focus is products.
 
rmzalbar- Sounds like it's one of those paints I call "stupid-soft" :D You should be able to LSP it with a nice soft applicator, just skip the AIO step as perhaps its (incredibly mild) abrasives are too much for the post-Menzerna finish.



Sounds like maybe you need a softer applicator (like the finishing pads for machines) and perhaps softer/new MF buffing towels too.



Grease- Oddly enough (for a guy who hates polishing), I kinda enjoy LSPing by Cyclo! I can occasionally appreciate hand-waxing the Jag, but for most vehicles I actually get a bigger kick outta machine-LSP application/removal. Heh heh, yeah, I'll admit it's kinda weird :D
 
Tank (speckles are a kind of soft flake reflecting the flash. Finished with KAIO and P21s. The P21s gave it a sort of smeary look..) Used SFX-1, IP, FPII. UDM with SFX 4" yellow and white.



Tail (Plastic, no flake, some sort of SOFT paint(ish) finish. Finished with KAIO and KSG only.) used SFX-1, FPII. UDM with SFX 4" yellow and white.



I used a powerful LED flashlight held a few inches away from the surface to inspect for micromarring, polish residue and LSP hazing. This worked really well - you don't look at the reflection of the light image, but the diffuse spot painted directly on the finish by the flashlight, the way it would put a spot on a wall. The more reflective you get the paint, the more that spot disappears.



Excuse my very poor photography. There really isn't very much light in the garage..



There are deep scratches and chips on the tank and the cover on the tail from carrying bags and such that unfortunately nothing can be done for.. too deep. I wet-sanded a couple of the medium ones out on the tank, but am wary of breaching clear. This is my practice vehicle with a variety of difficult finishes on it. Clearcoat, single stage, plastic, flake, BLACK, red, varying damage.



It's a little to small and curvy to practice rotary work though :)



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