Swirl Removing Becomes Over Polishing? Your Advice Please

H

Harry Houdini

New member
Helloo Everyone

I had my M6 for over 6 months now and it is Saphire Black, I have kept

swirl marks to minimum sueccessfully as I can't see any new Swirls for a long time now.



I do take my Time washing using grit guard and all as will as foam gun, merged that

with Accumulator method and it worked great for me so far.



I bought halogen lights and I was amazed at how many fine swirls on that paint ! ! !

They are every where, very fine to medium swirls.



the Car had been polished by a detailer twice in only 6 months but I don't think he

did it right, he used fillers to get the job done fast, thats why I didn't go back and decided

to take matters on to my own hands.



My Question is

1 - Is it safe to polish very soon from now, full polish that is?

2 - Menzerna IP for swirls, and to remove hazing I will use FPII and then AIO and Collinite for LSP?

3 - What’s the proper way to use the PC on very tight, small curves of the body of the

car, as those small curvy parts have swirls?

4 - What’s the measurement on how much is to much cut of the clearcoat? Without using paint reader?



5 - Which is very important!; Under Halogen Lights Every thing shows up, When should I

be satisfied with the results without cutting to much of the clearcoat under Halogen Lights?

I don't want to be polishing more than needed especially that Halogen exposes EVERYTHING! :)



I am so comfortable with my washing process that I want to get a defect free paint

and maintain it like that for a long long time :)



My process will be as followed

Wash

Clay, paint and then windows/wheels.

Dry

Polish with IP White Pad first and if it does not work Will go to orange after trying my best

to work the polish in with white pad.

FPII with white pad to remove any hazing or mirages

AIO or Pinnacle paint cleanser.

Collinite ### forgot the numbers :grinno:



Thanks For Any Advice from our expert members!:2thumbs:
 
Your process sounds fine. Don't worry about a paint meter or removing too much clearcoat with a PC. It's safe to polish whenever you want to. No reason to wait. Use your halogens to see your progress. If you don't want to take out every single swirl, then you can glaze before you wax.
 
David703 said:
It's safe to polish whenever you want to. No reason to wait
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Thanks for the advice but, polish whenever you want to? That’s is to much of a untrue statement :hmph:



Any advice from expert members is greatly appreciated :)
 
I'd say its safe to do mild polishing twice a year (OP, IP and FPII maybe), or heavy polishing once a year(OC, DACP, etc.). There is an old thread on MOL where Mike Phillips states that you could use DACP with a PC twice a year for ten years, I don't really know how valid that statement is.
 
Harry Houdini said:
Thanks for the advice but, polish whenever you want to? That’s is to much of a untrue statement :hmph:



Any advice from expert members is greatly appreciated :)
Click to expand...



You asked



My Question is

1 - Is it safe to polish very soon from now, full polish that is?



I said you can polish whenever you want to. No need to wait because the dealer did it. What does it matter if you polish it the next day after the dealer did or the next year. The same amount of clear would still be there. :think2
 
Harry Houdini said:
Helloo Everyone

I had my M6 for over 6 months now and it is Saphire Black, I have kept

swirl marks to minimum sueccessfully as I can't see any new Swirls for a long time now.



I do take my Time washing using grit guard and all as will as foam gun, merged that

with Accumulator method and it worked great for me so far.



I bought halogen lights and I was amazed at how many fine swirls on that paint ! ! !

They are every where, very fine to medium swirls.



the Car had been polished by a detailer twice in only 6 months but I don't think he

did it right, he used fillers to get the job done fast, thats why I didn't go back and decided

to take matters on to my own hands.
Click to expand...



Heh heh, if you're :eek: by what you see under halogens, don't try incandescents ;) They *really* show everything, you wouldn't believe the difference. But anyhow...



If the marring bothers you, *and* if you're confident in your wash regimen being marring-free, then I'd remove it. But that "if it bothers *you*" is the big thing. If you don't really mind it that much you might be OK to just use a polish with fillers/glaze before the Collinite (no AIO to clean off the fillers) and leave it at that. One of my frequently-expressed Autopian Heresies is that perfect finishes just aren't feasible for a lot of people, even the kind of people who really care.



1 - Is it safe to polish very soon from now, full polish that is?
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The more frequently you polish the sooner you'll run out of clear. But as noted, you have plenty to work with so it's not a biggie *now*, especially since the PC doesn't take off much (or at least doesn't take it off fast).



2 - Menzerna IP for swirls, and to remove hazing I will use FPII and then AIO and Collinite for LSP
Click to expand...



That's the general idea. But depending on how bad the marring (really) is you might be doing a lot of work with the IP and you might even need something stronger. I'm going through a lot of H-T EC on my '97 M3 and that's even with the rotary!



Note my previous suggestion to use products that do a little filling. The products you mentioned, while very good, are unforgiving in that you really have to get things perfect or you'll still see the defects. Well, OK, the Collinite will hide a tiny little bit, but not much at all. Maybe replace the AIO with a glaze. See what happens after you polish for a few hours (if you already have the products) or consider 1Z Polishes instead (if you don't already have anything).



3 - What’s the proper way to use the PC on very tight, small curves of the body of the car, as those small curvy parts have swirls?
Click to expand...



Use the edge of the pad or do them by hand.



4 - What’s the measurement on how much is to much cut of the clearcoat? Without using paint reader?
Click to expand...



There isn't any way to tell. By the time you do anything visible you'll have taken off too much. Pick a sorta-bad scratch that you think is safe to remove. Stop before you completely remove it and say "good enough". Then don't do more than that anywhere else. This gets back to avoiding the temptation to strive for literal perfection.



5 - Which is very important!; Under Halogen Lights Every thing shows up, When should I

be satisfied with the results without cutting to much of the clearcoat under Halogen Lights?

I don't want to be polishing more than needed especially that Halogen exposes EVERYTHING! :)
Click to expand...



What I said at the beginning ;) FWIW I have two vehicles I try to keep as close to perfect as possible, but quite a few more that aren't nearly that good (and I don't mind their imperfections). FWIW#2 the ones I keep "perfect" (notice quotes ;) ) I don't polish for years on end, no marring from the wash, no problems. I don't even have to repolish the others very often. Polishing every year is fine, so if you've got the wash sorted out maybe you oughta go for it.



I'd wash it and then pick a single panel and try to get it perfect, see how it goes. Then after the next wash, inspect the previously (near)perfect panel and see if it's still OK. Then pick another panel or two and do the car piecemeal this way. Don't underestimate how long it might take. Doing a limited area will keep the job manageable.
 
Bigpoppa3346,



Thank you for your knowledgeable advice, it is the safest I can think of twice a year

for a black clear coated car.



David703 said:
You asked



My Question is

1 - Is it safe to polish very soon from now, full polish that is?



I said you can polish whenever you want to. No need to wait because the dealer did it. What does it matter if you polish it the next day after the dealer did or the next year. The same amount of clear would still be there. :think2
Click to expand...



david, No offence but I asked the dealer not to lay hand on it and took the car with

plastics on it! but the detailer I have been dealing with does alot of work for dealerships

and he is in that state of mind of getting as much cars done as possible for ovious reasons.

his stuff made those swirsl on the paint.

thanks for the clear up :)
 
=Accumulator=



Thanks allot for you advice as always very valuable to everyone here :thx



I also have OCP or optimum Polish, Should I consider that as a more aggressive

polish than IP?



As for my inventory I have VM and RMG as will as Zaino Z5 and all of the zaino line

including 3 bottles of each Z6 and Z8 for after each wash, I also have Sonus Paint Work

Cleanser and Nattys Paste Wax, I also have the PS21 Products "I love there Wheel cleaner" Oh and all of my towels are from shak pak and I just ordered Boars Hair Brushes.

I also have Sheepskin Wash Mitt which needs to be replaced soon.



As of now I have the full Zaino process done on the car X3 of Z2 and done X2 of Z5

and did X1 last week Z5.I did this for winter only, I like the look of Wax’s more than

sealants but it is for winter only. I want to strip that to replace with Collinite



when I need to polish the car for the swirls, should I use down mix with Alcohol in the foam gun to remove the zaino? lets say X2, first time is regular wash, second time is

Claying with the suds, sounds good enough?



As for doing every panel at a time, sounds great, but how can that be done as far

as leaving the paint exposed to environment? Should I do one panel / Polish / Wax or Seal?

and what about the rest of the car, should I leave it stripped of any protection until I

get the job done?
 
Not sure how helpful I can be as I'm not familiar with most of the products you mentioned.



Dunno about the OCP/IP but I'd guess that the IP is more aggressive. Everyone *I* know who used the IP (including one of my painters) follows up with something milder but plenty of people get a ready-to-was finish out of OCP, so I suspect that's a clue.



The Zaino oughta see you through winter just fine, so I'd try to ignore the marring until spring (heh heh, yeah, I know that's not always easy).



I wouldn't run the IPA through the foamgun. I'd do the stripping and panel-at-a-time in a more limited/controlled/manual fashion: Wash the car and pick a panel; wipe said panel down with IPA and a MF; polish/etc. that panel; treat rest of car (and maybe also the panel you just did, depending on the products in question) with a LSP-boosting QD to help it stay OK until the next time, when you can do another panel or two; repeat until you've done the whole vehicle, inspecting the redone panels after every wash to help evaluate your wash technique. If you finish the whole car (using this method) in a month or so, you oughta be able to just redo the LSP (whole car) and be OK, though you just might need to do a little *very gentle* spot-claying/spot-correction depending on what gets stuck to/done to the finish during the whole, drawn-out process. Note that there are compromises involved, but life's full of trade-offs ;)
 
here is my yearly routine...



wash once a week, or twice

OC twice a year, then sealant wax, (process done every 6 months)

OP, red moose glaze, carnauba pinnacle souveran done twice a year



essentially:

january get OC process

april gets OP process

June gets OC

september get OP



OP is not doing too much besides bringing back gloss, with minor paint correction

OC is removing swirls

glaze fills in what OP doesnt remove

sealant provides a barrier

carnauba brings back wetness



oh and I use OCW after every wash too, excessive yes, but worth it too
 
I would actually wait until after winter, as salt has a good time screwing up paint jobs. You'll wind up polishing only to polish again when it wasn't necessary the first time.
 
i heard that the d/a polisher doesnt remove any clear at all is that true??im hearing mixed opinines on this.i bought my dual action poliser onlin at rightlook.com and i asked them does it remove any clearcot and they said no not at all?even with compounds and polish . are they mis leading me? they said you can only remove clear witha rotory!!
 
trhland said:
i heard that the d/a polisher doesnt remove any clear at all is that true??im hearing mixed opinines on this.i bought my dual action poliser onlin at rightlook.com and i asked them does it remove any clearcot and they said no not at all?even with compounds and polish . are they mis leading me? they said you can only remove clear witha rotory!!
Click to expand...

Completely false. Polishing is just that: removing the damaged part of the clearcoat to allow for fresh paint to be shown.
 
If you want a truely safe system of polishing, I'd recommend the Sonus Swirlbuster.



It has a very mild abrasive and after you finished working with it it lays down an Acrylic filler which can definately last much longer than your average silicone filler.



Swirlbuster can remove light swirls then fills the rest in, which lets you polish without worrying about removing too much clear.



the best thing about it is after you are done, the paint is ready for a pure sealant like klassy grey or a pure wax like p21s



Swirl Remover Car Polish -- Sonus SwirlBuster Polish

Sonus SwirlBuster Foam Polishing Pad
 
Accumulator's done it again. Top advice

My car has the tiniest swirls in some spots, none in others and mild on the rest

In the past I have Menzerna IP, FP, Pink moose and sealant



Back in august - prima swirl, VM, Jeffs Prime & AJT

The best result yet, this week I will be doing the car again with Blackfire SRC 3000 then VM, Prime & AJT and from then on, only four star paint cleanser, poorboys pro polish or other chemical polish like carlack 68 or ultra gloss

Four star's quite effective by machine with an edge white pad. Takes baby swirls out and gives great gloss.



Don't care how much paint I have left, that's enough medium polishing work for mine. It's 8 years old and been machined three times so that will do.



Basically, master your wash technique and use as many wash mitts as you can. I like to use five and took five washes before I got about four baby swirls

I have learnt to live with some swirling, it's so fine that even new cars washed once by an inexperienced detailer would have about half that much.



Good advice re : swirlbuster. Good stuff.
 
Any pictures you can provide us???

Something that might be bad to you may be minor for us, or the other way around. A picture would give us an idea of what each person thinks of it and also the process.



Chris
 
Accumulator said:
I'd wash it and then pick a single panel and try to get it perfect, see how it goes. Then after the next wash, inspect the previously (near)perfect panel and see if it's still OK. Then pick another panel or two and do the car piecemeal this way. Don't underestimate how long it might take. Doing a limited area will keep the job manageable.
Click to expand...



This is what I've started doing in recent months, and it's taken a lot of stress and frustration out of my detailing regimen. You can love your car, and you can love detailing, but can you love detailing your car for 16, 20, 24+ hours?
 
fitzski said:
You can love your car, and you can love detailing, but can you love detailing your car for 16, 20, 24+ hours?
Click to expand...



Yeah, that's what sometimes gets to me too. I'm sorta taking it to extremes lately :o but I'm not getting burned out and that translates into fewer mistakes. After hours of work it's easy to slip up and miss something.
 
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