swirl removal WITHOUT filling with oils.

H

Hawkeye_TDI

New member
Is there actually a product which will remove swirls without using a filler? It seems to me that this product, if it exists would be the most preferable for sealants like Zaino and Bf. Any glaze or filler will eventually evaporate revealing the swirl it was filling. Zaino will amplify this defect while wax and or GEPC will hide it.



Does anyone know of such a product?



For instance, SMR has some fillers. It seems to me that after a few washes (with Zaino on top) the swirls reappear. I use the anal method of washing 2 pails, yada, yada, yada.



Any ideads?



Bruce
 
You may also want to look at 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze. Geekysteve wrote an interesting review some time back. I'll be comparing PI III MG and Menzerna Intensive Polish in the next few weeks. Both have good reports.
 
You have a very interesting situation Bruce. If the swirls are returning after several washes because it appears the fillers in the SMR you are using has disappeared where is the Zaino that should be "locking" these fillers in. Either the Zaino is not bonding well with the SMR product or regimen you are using, the Zaino is wearing away after a few washes ( doubtful) or you are creating new swirls, even with proper washing technique, in the Zaino protective layer. I too found it hard to maintain a swirl-free with Zaino even though the finish seemed well protected ( tight beading).

I believe that Zaino is very prone to surface marring during washing and QD'ing even with the best of precautions. :nixweiss



If you have not tried the 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze it might be worth a try. I love this stuff and it is suppose to eliminate swirls rather than fill them. Very easy to work with using a PC. :xyxthumbs
 
Yet another vote for 3M PIII Machine Glaze . . . :up I've found it to be almost as agressive as Finesse-It II, and much, much easier to use with a PC.



From the front of the bottle: "Swirl mark remover (non-filling)"



Tort
 
Any compound, polish, cleaner combination can remove all of the swirls. The problem is that the fillers/oils hide the remaining marring. After using your final cleaner/polish do a good wash with a detergent to get rid of all fillers/oils and do a close inspection - using an obsession light if you have one, or in direct sunlight if you don’t. If there is any micro-marring remaining, then polish and wash again.



It would be convenient if there were filler/oil free products with the aggressiveness of SMR and GEPC, but there isn’t a very large market for these products. Out of the millions of car owners, there are very few that demand a swirl free surface. Most don’t care, and many are content with just hiding the swirls. Those of us who want to remove the swirls rather than hiding them are a relatively small group of <S>a</S><S>nal wierdos</S> appearance hobbyists - not a very large market.



Putting Zaino on top of any product that contains fillers and oils can be tricky. The residual oils from the SMR, GEPC, etc. must be removed or the Zaino won’t bond and the marring will reappear. If you’re too aggressive in removing the oils, then you will also remove the fillers. What has given me the best results is to spritz the newly glazed area with a mild Z-7 solution and wipe it off, then repeat with Z-6. Then top with at least two layers of Zaino with either accelerator (Z-1 or ZFX). Even this doesn’t always work!



With Zaino (actually with any protectant) the best results will come from getting rid of (not hiding) all surface marring.
 
This is where things get weird for me. The is so much overlapping usage of terms that it gets confusing. A product that is labeld as a glaze does not leave fillers? That's exactly what a glaze is. It fills in swirls, not removes them like an abrasive. I'm not saying you guys are wrong who say that machine glaze removes swilrs, since I have never used it, but the descriptions on this post of what this product does are contrary to what a glaze does. I'm confused.:nixweiss
 
3M's machine glazes contain abrasives as well as fillers. In my experience IHG is the only "glaze" that is abrassive free.
 
I believe Menzerna's Final Polish has no fillers.

When I spoke with CMA about the 3M SMR vs. Menzerna's Final Polish, I was told that while Final Polish has no fillers, it's alot more abrasive when compared to 3M SMR.
 
hubris63,

Join the club. Unfortunately, many manufacturers interchange the word glaze with polish for products that contain both oils, fillers, abrasive or all. One must investigate the product to see what function(s) it performs.



Examples:

3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze is a polish with very little oil content but very fine abrasives and no fillers. Perfect for an SMR for us "anal" hobbist. ;)



Mother's Sealer and Glaze is a glaze with oils, fillers and solvents



3M IHG is a glaze with oils, fillers and solvents



Megiuar's #9 is a glaze with mild abrasives, oil, fillers and solvents.



My point is that the word "glaze" has many meanings ( per manufactures) from its probable original definition. :wavey
 
Another product to try would be Einszett Paint Polish. It is supposed to not contain any oils or fillers, and removes the swirls, rather than fill them in. I used it for the first time last weekend and I loved it. Very, very easy to use, removes swirls and oxidation quickly, and the gloss it leaves behind is the best I have seen after using an abrasive. I like it better than my old favorite, 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze (which is still a fantastic product). I believe that the PI-III is a bit more aggressive though.



Mike
 
Thanks Malibu,

That Einszett Paint Polish sounds like something I will like trying to add to my multi-step polish routine.



Finish with PI-III Machine Glaze, Einszett Paint Polish ( from your description less aggressive the PI-III MG) and conclude with P21S GEPC. :xyxthumbs



What is the product # and exact name please.
 
blkZ28 -



Here is the link to it at the Autopia Store: Einszett Paint Polish. I do believe that it is less aggressive than the 3M PI-III (although I don't think all that much less aggressive), however, the gloss and ease of use is definitely superior (and I consider the PI-III MG excellent in both these respects). It'd make a great step between the 3M and P21S. :up Although, on most of the cars I do, I think I will be using it as a replacement for the 3M.



Mike
 
The following was copied from the EinsZett USA web site:



Metallic Polish

Metallic is designed for use on all types of paint finishes including new cars and paintwork that is well treated with very minor surface issues. Cleaning action safely dissolves the toughest surface grime while conditioning oils produce unmatched depth and gloss that enhances the paintwork.

<font color=red>Abrasive Level: Low</font>



Paint Polish

General purpose polish for lightly oxidized paintwork in good condition. Cleans, polishes and protects in one application with a film and streak-free finish. Reduces swirl marks. Provides a weather-resistant seal. Delivers a shine which lasts for months. Special silicone ensures long-lasting gloss.

<font color=red>Abrasive Level: Moderate</font>



Ultra Paint Polish

Aggressive cleaner for dull and weathered paintwork with aggressive polishing action. Removes oxidized paint layers and light scratches and restores depth of color. Cleans and protects. With weather-resistant protective agents and a streak-free result. Special silicone ensures a long-lasting shine. Not recommended for use on new cars.

<font color=red>Abrasive Level: High</font>



It appears that all three of their polishes contain oils and/or fillers.
 
Thanks guys.:bow



Malibu, Easier than 3M PI-III MG. WOW!!



Nick,

a little filling and oil will be okay for me. I just desire now too alleviate this filling to the bear minimum.

Black will always need some sort of make-up on a driven vehicle.;)
 
Here's an Autoint product that doesn't contain fillers:



Machine Polish/Swirl Remover



I specifically called Autoint before using this, and was told that it does not contain any fillers. The instructions say not to buff the pad dry, and I found that using this method with a CMA white pad left some hazing. I'm not the most experienced person with a PC though, and that was a year or so ago. Here's a quote from my Zaino/Blackfire comparison :



After the ABC wash, I wanted to prep the finish as well as possible for the Zaino, so I used some Autoint Machine Polish Swirl Remover to take out the existing imperfections. The main reason I switched from 3M SMR is that the Autoint SMR contains no fillers or oils; it's part of their "body shop safe" line. I didn't want any oils or fillers to get in the way of the Z5 bonding to my paint. I started out using a CMA white pad at a speed of 4 on the PC, but that was leaving haze. I stepped up the speed to 5, and then followed up with a black pad at speed 5. This gave a satisfactory finish, but I wasn't completely happy with it. As with the 3M SMR, the Autoint SMR took out many of the washing mars, but I could still see some. It also didn't have that deep, wet look that I thought it would when I got through. One caveat: I was doing this at night, under the new 1000W halogen light tree that I had just bought, so I'm sure this made everything look it's worst! I'm pretty inexperienced with the PC, so maybe that had more to do with it than anything. I have some other polishes (3M, AIO, BF polish, One-Step) but I opted not to put any of these on because they all have fillers or polymers that could get in the way of the Z5 bonding.
Click to expand...



But at $6.79 a bottle, this may be worth a try...
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Yet another vote for 3M PIII Machine Glaze . . . :up I've found it to be almost as agressive as Finesse-It II, and much, much easier to use with a PC.



From the front of the bottle: "Swirl mark remover (non-filling)"
Click to expand...



Nick T. said:
3M's machine glazes contain abrasives as well as fillers.
Click to expand...



So which one of you guys is telling the truth?
 
I'm just gonna hand all these products to a 600lb gorilla...whichever he says is the right one is the one i am gonna go with....you don't argue with a 600lb gorilla :D
 
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