Swirl Marks - 3M Perfect it Paste Rubbing Compound

M

MTO44

New member
Would like your opinion on this Recipe for removing swirl marks and minor scratches on a less than one year old clear coat.

1) use PC 7336SP with a white polishing pad.

2) buff 2' by 2' foot sections with 3M perfect it Paste Rubbing Compound Fine Cut (1200 grade) for no more than 30 seconds on each section in various directions (don't push down, let weight of PC work in the compound), speed no greater than 2. Wipe off with micro fiber towel.

3) Buff out haze made by compound with Meguiars No 3 Machine Polish using PC and another white polishing pad. After this process you should not see any swirls and your finish should look great.

4) follow up with 3MIHG and Soverign Wax. Car should look great???



OK Autopia experts, let me know what you think. Will this work? If not, why? Main goal is to get rid of these minor swirls that I can only see in the brightest of lighting and most importantly, not do more harm to my paint...:xyxthumbs
 
Sounds a bit much for "swirls"... unless they are actually scratches. What you got there is a way to bring back rather abused paint.



Also, you're up there on product agressiveness, but you're still using a polishing pad. I'd use some sort of cutting pad (CMA Yellow, or stronger... perhaps a 3M Waffle). Also, I'm not sure what 3M compound you're using, but when I used 3M FCRC it didn't leave any haze.
 
I agree it does sound aggressive but a person on the phone at CMA said the combo worked great. The swirls would be gone. So I purchased the Perfect-it Paste Rubbing compound Fine Cut. I have not used it. I can always send it back. Thought I would throw the question out there to the auto-pia experts like yourself, NY detailer, David B. and others and see if the recipe was one that would work or be a recipe for disaster. Hopefully people like yourself will respond and help me out. :nixweiss
 
I tried to do the exact same thing you are wanting to do. I ordered the PC and all the pads and ended up buying the following products Megs Scratch-X, 3M SMR, 3M Finesse it II, and 3M Fine cut rubbing compound. I started out with 3M SMR and tried every speed on the PC, didnt even touch it. Then I tried the 3M Finesse it II with the same results. Next I try the Scratch-X still NOTHING! Now I break out the 3M fine cut rubbing compound, after working it for about 45 minutes you could tell that it barely is starting to do something. Keep in mind that I have tried every speed on the PC with each of these products and the marks are not going away, I spent a total of 9.5 hours that day foolin with the PC and all of these products only to have shinnier swirl marks. I just broke out the Dewalt rotary buffer with 3M Finesse it II and 5 minutes later they were gone!
 
Well that sucks. So what you are saying is the rubbing compound did help out very little but you still needed a rotary to really work them out. There has to be a formula out there that works with a pc at removing Swirl marks. I need to hear success stories. If anyone has them, please share. From what I heard, 3MSMR is really only a filler, you need some abbrasive to correct the swirl mark problem. Can you damage your paint with my system - PC and compound fine cut and then Machine Polish 3 to shine up work, or like you said, just have shinnier swirls. Please help.
 
I'm no expert by any stretch, but this has worked well for me.



I've got a lot (and I mean alot) of fine scratches in the clear coat of my F150 as well as the really fine, circular scratches (marring maybe?) from washing. I don't really have the "swirls" that are caused by buffer use.



I used the PC in the following ways:



1. White pad that came with the PC and FI II - not much success.

2. Yellow cutting pad (Buffmaster) from local paint shop and FI II - removed some of the fine scratches, but didn't touch the washing marks.

3. Yellow cutting pad (Buffmaster) and Perfect It II RC - very good success removing the fine scratches and removed most of the washing marks. Any leftover marks were just not visible enough to warrant taking more clear coat off.





Now, that said, PI II RC is more than abrasive enough to cause actual "swirling marks" in the finish so:



1. light swirled areas get Meguiars #9 SMR in a straight line, front to back by hand.

2. other areas get FI II with PC and polishing pad (lightly) and then the Meguiars #9 SMR front to back by hand.



This is not regular maintenance work for me, the previous owner marked it up pretty good and it needed some TLC. I wouldn't subject the finish to this on a regular basis, practice good washing and hopefully all you need is some minor work with SMR or FI II in the future.



My final step is a few coats of Klasse.



Hope this helps.



Darcy
 
Thunderingbird said:
I tried to do the exact same thing you are wanting to do. I ordered the PC and all the pads and ended up buying the following products Megs Scratch-X, 3M SMR, 3M Finesse it II, and 3M Fine cut rubbing compound. I started out with 3M SMR and tried every speed on the PC, didnt even touch it. Then I tried the 3M Finesse it II with the same results. Next I try the Scratch-X still NOTHING! Now I break out the 3M fine cut rubbing compound, after working it for about 45 minutes you could tell that it barely is starting to do something. Keep in mind that I have tried every speed on the PC with each of these products and the marks are not going away, I spent a total of 9.5 hours that day foolin with the PC and all of these products only to have shinnier swirl marks. I just broke out the Dewalt rotary buffer with 3M Finesse it II and 5 minutes later they were gone!
Click to expand...



Wow, you've just rendered the PC entirely USELESS... Countless numbers of people from this forum have great success with it...I hate to break it to you, but you're obviously doing something wrong.



I agree with what someone said above, you're using a very aggressive product with a polishing pad, doesn't seem to make sense. I had great success this weekend with 3M FI-II with a yellow cutting pad...on speed 6, with moderate pressure. Took out swirls and some fine surface scratches! And I only spent ONE hour on my trunk and roof!!! Worked for me!:nixweiss
 
Is the Yellow cutting pad from the CMA kit safe on newer cars with light swirls? What is more aggressive, 3M Perfect II Fine cut Rubbing compound or Finesse it II? How aggressive is the Meg Dual Action cleaner polish some people on this site have recommended for taking out swirls? Which 3M product is comparable to this dual action polish? Thank you everyone for helping me with my decision which is getting more and more confusing as time goes by.:scared
 
FI II is a finishing compound so it should be less agressive then the FCRC. Rub each one on your fingers and see which feels more gritty, I'm pretty sure it will be the FCRC.



While I don't own one, the yellow foam pad should be fine for Clear coat, I think clear coat was one of the main "drivers" behind foam pads becoming so popular.



I can't help you with the DACP, but just about everything I read about it is positive.



Can't help you for a 3M product comparable to the Meg's.



Darcy
 
Chris S said:




Wow, you've just rendered the PC entirely USELESS... Countless numbers of people from this forum have great success with it...I hate to break it to you, but you're obviously doing something wrong.



I agree with what someone said above, you're using a very aggressive product with a polishing pad, doesn't seem to make sense. I had great success this weekend with 3M FI-II with a yellow cutting pad...on speed 6, with moderate pressure. Took out swirls and some fine surface scratches! And I only spent ONE hour on my trunk and roof!!! Worked for me!:nixweiss
Click to expand...
Well Chris for me the PC is entirely useless! I cut my teeth on a rotary some 23 years ago so I'm not scared of it. I bought the PC because of all the high praises of it on this site. Chris I assure you I'm not new to this and I do know how to use the products properly. I used cutting pads with all the products. The only time I got any results period was with the fine cut rubbing compound the PC on speed 6 and putting ALOT of pressure on the PC, and still it took 45 minutes to get the marks shinier on half the hood! Dont get me wrong the PC may be good for someone that is affraid of a rotary or does'nt want to do anything other than apply light polish's and wax's to mostly perfect finish's. However it cannot even begin to hang with a rotary when trying to remove imperfections in paint. I dont know maybe I have some type of new hybrid paint that is composed mostly of steel,but I was VERY dissapointed with the PC's performance considering all the raves and claims that I read on this site.:nixweiss
 
MTO44 said:
Well that sucks. So what you are saying is the rubbing compound did help out very little but you still needed a rotary to really work them out. There has to be a formula out there that works with a pc at removing Swirl marks. I need to hear success stories. If anyone has them, please share. From what I heard, 3MSMR is really only a filler, you need some abbrasive to correct the swirl mark problem. Can you damage your paint with my system - PC and compound fine cut and then Machine Polish 3 to shine up work, or like you said, just have shinnier swirls. Please help.
Click to expand...
Well from what I've seen about the only way your going to hurt the finnish on your car with a PC is to take the PC and beat the daylights out of your car with it! Like I said before I got NO results until I used fine cut rubbing compound and by then I was so mad I was trying to burn the paint off[I'm NOT kidding]and only then it barely made any difference! The PC just DOES NOT create the friction or the heat needed to remove scratch's or swirls. Save yourself some money and buy a rotary, learn how to use it and you will be way ahead of anybody using only a PC.:D
 
I've had good results with the CMA yellow pad and the 3M FCRC as the first pass using the PC as well as Pi lll and the yellow pad. I've had good results with 3M SMR and the yellow pad as both a secondary pass and as a final pass before sealing. The maroon and pink Meg's pads work good and are easily interchangeable with CMA's during a detailing session using the PC. In MTO44's case that might work just fine, ( the FCRC I've thought from time to time could be used as just a step above a general polish using the right pad) but for less than a year old car you might want to tone down the level of abrasiveness a bit and step it up on the pad. Try it both ways and see which yields the best results. I polished by hand for years until last year when I bought the Porter Cable, I wish I had bought it years ago. If the correct combination of PC, pad and polish isn’t working then you might want to look at your technique. Seems to me there is a wide range of technique possible with the PC and some may get disheartened when they get less results than what they expected right away. I think SMR has minor filling properties at most and Pi lll claims to be filler free and I believe it is from my experience but it does powder up quite a bit. I’m looking forward to trying the Meg’s DACP that seems to working well for some, I read some where here that it doesn’t leave a lot of powdery residue.
 
Let me try and understand what V85097 and Thunderingbird just wrote. Even though the 3m PERFECT IT Paste RC (Fine cut) is up on the abbrasive scale, it is a product that will work with my PC and I should get the results (Swirls be gone) out of my hood and trunk. Per Thunderingbird, there is no way I can damage the clearcoat with the rubbing compound and my pc unless I throw the PC against the hood. V85097, Ford Guy and Chris S (happy PC users) if I use the white polishing pad with the fine cut rubbing compound and then follow up with the Meg No. 3 polish to take any haze out, should that work. Or should I def use the yellow pad with the rubbing compound, then the white pad with the polish. The guy at CMA said to use the white pad with the Rubbing compound. Do I need to throw a step in with the 3M Swirl remover or would that be overkill. Still somewhat confused. Why can't they put paint and clearcoats on cars that don't swirl or scratch. Thanks everyone for the helpful advice.:nixweiss
 
The FCRC will certainly work with the PC and you can put it on any pad you like. How effective the FC and the white CMA pad will be will depend on variables such as the cars paint and condition, the pressure you apply and how long you work it for etc...The FC and yellow pad will be stepping up the overall abrasiveness for sure. From the sound of your paint's condition and being newer to the PC, you should experiment in the area of low abrasiveness to begin with. Try the SMR with the white pad to begin with, you may not have much of an impact with it but it will help you get a feel for the machine.
 
OK Autopia experts, let me know what you think
Click to expand...



Ok..First you say to apply the FCRC with a speed of 2 and a polishing pad, using no weight. Then, you say to remove the haze youll create..



Well, let me tell you, 2 wks ago, I had some hood clear coat scratches I need to get after....I used the FCRC, the Yellow Meguires Polish pad, and the PC....Since nothing was happening, I went to a speed of 6, and used some of my own weight....And even then, not only was there absolutely no hazing, but not much was happening with the scratches either...Then, I got wise, and put on a Wool pad. Then, using the speed of 6, and some of my weight, and I was finally able to start knocking the scratches down...But, it was a Very slow process, and in the end, some of them still remained, although the edges were rounded over and they looked much better. But my point is, even then, there was NO hazing or micromarring caused by the RC which need to be removed further..I was able to go right to the wax.



So I dont think you need to worry about any scratching being caused by this step. Youll probably find you may need to go to a stronger pad, like I did, depending on teh severity of the scratch...Mine couldnt be 'grabbed' with a fingernail either!
 
Now I break out the 3M fine cut rubbing compound, after working it for about 45 minutes you could tell that it barely is starting to do something. Keep in mind that I have tried every speed on the PC with each of these products and the marks are not going away, I spent a total of 9.5 hours that day foolin with the PC and all of these products only to have shinnier swirl marks. I just broke out the Dewalt rotary buffer with 3M Finesse it II and 5 minutes later they were gone!
Click to expand...



I think this is pretty typical of what guys will find when using an orbital, even one as good as the PC with 6000 orbits per second max, for removing paint scratches...And Im not talking about scratches you can grab with a fingernail either....Im talking about scratches that are slightly deeper than surface swirls...I like to differentiate scratches as those that are either ON the clearcoat, like surface-most swirls, vs those that are IN the clearcoat. Anything deeper I would consider being IN the color coat, and Im NOT talking about these.



Anyway, for scratches IN the clearcoat, the only way Ive found the PC to be effective, is with a Wool pad, and the 3M FCRC. The foam polishing pad did not a thing, as was found in the above quote, no matter how much speed or weight I used. Luckily, I did find the PC on a speed greater than 4.5, and leaning into the polisher, did work with this pad. I havent tried it yet with a foam Cutting pad, and I wonder whether it would be as effective as the Wool cutting pad...Ill have to try it, or maybe someone who has compared the two will post here.



I dont think any of this is meant to imply that the PC is 'useless', as someone implied...Its an excellent tool for applying and removing wax, glaze, SMRs, and for removing some scratches IN the clearcoat, provided you use the proper pad.



If your scratch is IN the clearcoat, and is still not being levelled even with the cutting pad, wool or foam, and FCRC, Id stop banging my head against the wall, and whip out the rotary, for a quick result. I use my rotary only for spot duty, when the PC just cant do the job...So far, I havent found any of this type of scratch that the PC and the correct products cant level....But, Im sure they exist, and thats what the rotary is for...And again, none of this degegrates the PC.
 
Well MTO44,



This is all I can offer being pretty new to this myself. The white pad that came with the PC is very mild. If you really want to be safe and learn what works best for you and the way you handle the PC ('cause everyone does it a little different) you'll have to try many of the combinations mentioned.



I would probably relegate the white PC pad to SMR duty and nothing else. If you are trying to get swirls out only, this will probably work. I rubbed my wifes Maxima by hand to take out rotary swirls and it turned out great so I would think the pad should too. My preference is to use SMR by hand, but its a lot of work.



1. Try the yellow pad with FI II first.

2. if that doesn't work, try it with the 3M PI II RC (either FC (39002) or the MC I use (05973)). I haven't tried the FC, it might have worked just fine for me. Bear in mind that that pad should then only be used with the most agressive product you tried. This way you always know the level of abrasiveness the pad will have. You shouldn't mix abrasives on the same pad. I figure its okay to try it this way because you're getting more abrasive, not less.



Try each combination with a slight pressure on the PC, maybe enough to slightly compress the pad.



I know this means you would have to buy 4 different products, but you're need the SMR and the FI II anyway. You're really only gambling on the RC.



If the yellow pad doesn't work with either one of the RC you've got some pretty good marks in the finish. I used a yellow pad (not CMA) with the PI RC (05973) and there are still some marks that won't come out, but the finish looks a heck of a lot better. I'm not going to push my luck getting those deeper ones out.



Long message I know, but if you want to hear a little more about things I tried, drop me a PM. We can post our final results on the thread to help out some others.



Darcy
 
3m fine cut compound on a 5" wool bonnet covered pad chucked up in an electric drill will get any swirl out real quick like. So long as the drill can do at least 2500 rpm, you're fine. Use the edge. Just remember- don't go through the clear coat/paint.



The pc should be able to take it from there.



Hey- I'm editing here- I don't know where I got 2500 rpm from- my drill is only 850! so maybe I was thinking of the 'do not exceed' speed embossed on the backing plate.. duhhh
 
So long as the drill can do at least 2500 rpm, you're fine. U
Click to expand...



Id agree that for a localized scratch or two, the drill with the wool pad and FCRC can be an excellent solution, and one that's at almost everybody's disposal. But I would disagree with the speed.



When people use an expensive Rotary with a wool or a foam pad, the ideal speed for car finishing work is in the 1000 to 1500 range...So, why would it be any different when using your method? Youre just using a drill to mimick the action of a small rotary, utilizing both heat, and constancy of coverage to your advantage....Just as 2500 is way to fast for most rotary work on today's finishes, so would it be with the drill.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top