Surbuf Pad paired with M105 and PC is a defect killer!

Try this link:

Surbuf Products :: R Series



They offer some different styles for woodworking, but I wouldn't worry about them. The R Series is the kind you want.





For some reason, it took a while for the pads to ship out. I ordered them back in November and it took a little over two weeks for them to arrive.
 
Kevin Brown said:
Yeah, that [SurBuf balding]has also happened to me. I probably treated the pads the exact same way you likely did... I used them as if they were just like foam. Turns out that a light touch yielded superior results...
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Maybe that *was* it...though I thought I was being pretty gentle :think: I'll have to revisit them sometime, not on the Jag though ;)





.. I do enjoy writing about detailing and the related fields. It allows me to share the knowledge I have gained through watching, listening, and doing...
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Heh heh, you sound like me :xyxthumbs



Oh, and yeah, you sure *are* getting the hang of your software!



And nothing but praise for the two Meguiuar's-Mikes from me too, even if I don't always see eye-to-eye with them on everything.
 
I ordered 2 of the 7" on Sat and they arrived today via firstclass mail. They shipped from Bigfork, MT and I did not get charged sales tax in GA.



I might give them a try tomorrow on a blue BMW, will see how bad the defects are first. If not they will get some use on a black land rover next week. I have seen the defects on that one and its not pretty.
 
First quick attempt on this Mystic Blue 04 330i.



The defects are not horrible for 105k miles, but not very nice either. Now this is my first Mystic Blue, but most of the metallic colors from this era are usually pretty hard IME. If anyone else has found Mystic Blue to be on the softer side let us know.



Subject as it arrived:



img0790.jpg




Random defect shot:



img0803z.jpg




Quick before shot of the rt side of the hood. Sorry that both are a bit distorted but I cropped them out:



img0799d.jpg




After shot of the left side of the hood.



7" surbuf/old M105/PC6 1 pass

LC black/M205.PC4.5



img0801d.jpg




I had spritz'd the surface lighly with water since I did not have any of the QD that Kevin used.



Even thought I pressed the pad into a MF after priming it appears that I had to much polish in the pad. So I followed Chris's advice wiping the polish off after a few passes and going back at it without adding more polish.



I was watching the polish as I passed with the pad, it appeared that the fingers where laying down but not excessively.



You are using MUCH less pressure with the surbuf pad then an orange pad.



The surfaces looked pretty good after the M105 step, sorry no pic of that.



I got to get back to it as the client needs this car back tonight.
 
gmblack3a- Thanks for posting that. Big thing I noticed was that you were using a 7" SurBuf on the PC, so yeah, you must not've been applying much pressure. Pretty impressive that it cut so well!
 
Accumulator said:
gmblack3a- Thanks for posting that. Big thing I noticed was that you were using a 7" SurBuf on the PC, so yeah, you must not've been applying much pressure. Pretty impressive that it cut so well!
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Actually after talking to Kevin again, you can apply some pretty good pressure with the 7" pad. Still not like the pressure required to do the KBPCM.
 
gmblack3a said:
.. you can apply some pretty good pressure with the 7" pad. Still not like the pressure required to do the KBPCM.
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OK, guess there's a wide range in what different people think of regarding the amount of pressure. You know, the "plenty of pressure but not so much that it merely jiggles" sort of thing.



Maybe I'm just used to being able to really lean on the Cyclo, but I have to watch that I don't overload my PCs by pressing too hard, not that *that* oughta be a problem since the SurBufs apparently cut so well (let alone with M105 in the mix).



EDIT: It occurs to me that the SurBufs are just so *different* from regular foam pads that the whole pressure thing is probably a different ballgame altogether.
 
Accumulator said:
OK, guess there's a wide range in what different people think of regarding the amount of pressure. You know, the "plenty of pressure but not so much that it merely jiggles" sort of thing. ...
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Bingo!

It is very difficult to express a thing like applied pressure in writing.

I am having this problem in with the method paper.

I mean, if it is to be the guide to using a specific procedure, there should be no gray area, right?

All I can do is identify pressure as light, normal, moderate, or heavy. I have weighed my G100 with a 6.5" polishing pad in the past. It was somewhere around 6-1/2 pounds. Then, I grabbed ahold of it firmly. Its weight registered around 12.5 pounds. I added a bit of pressure, mimicking what I thought to be normal. I came up with about 15 pounds. So, that's normal to me. Moderate pressure is something like a 50% increase, so 22-23 pounds. Heavy would be 23 to 30, which is a lot.



If anyone knows of a better way to relay pressure, I certainly would be interested to hear about it.



BigAl3 said:
I apologize if it's already been mentioned, but has anyone tried using these pads with the Flex?...
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My friend Mike has. He's the guy that bought the Dynabrade Dual-Action Buffing Head: http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/116649-dynabrade-dual-action-buffing-head.html



Anyway, he used the Surbuf on a powder blue Porsche and a black BMW.

He says he paired it with the Flex 3401VRG and M105, and it works very well.

Then followed up with the G110, Meguiar's So1o yellow pad, and Meguiar's M86 So1o Cut and Polish Cream.

He says it turned out fantastic.



At least with the Flex you won't have to concern yourself with watching the rotational speed, as it will keep that constant.

I just wonder how well the Flex handles virtually no-load on its drive mechanism.

If the balance mechanism is as it should be, it will probably be fine.



This is a pretty new procedure, so it is only going to benefit from added experimentation. :buffing:
 
Kevin Brown said:
It is very difficult to express a thing like applied pressure in writing...I am having this problem in with the method paper...there should be no gray area, right?
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I certainly sympathize with you there!



I grabbed ahold of it firmly. Its weight registered around 12.5 pounds. I added a bit of pressure, mimicking what I thought to be normal. I came up with about 15 pounds. So, that's normal to me. Moderate pressure is something like a 50% increase, so 22-23 pounds. Heavy would be 23 to 30, which is a lot...If anyone knows of a better way to [relate] pressure, I certainly would be interested to hear about it.
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Not having tried actually polishing my scale ;) I'd say that's a good set of guidelines. Especially the 20 = moderate, seeing as how 20 lbs. is sorta the rule of thumb AFAIK. 30 lbs. seems like a lot, possibly enough to bog it with some pads :think: I suspect that the (bogging-related) effects of increased pressure are not linear but that's just a guess.



I just wonder how well the Flex handles virtually no-load on its drive mechanism.

If the balance mechanism is as it should be, it will probably be fine.
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I somehow suspect that the Flex 3401 will deal with near-no-load at least as well as it will handle more-than-moderate pressure. Consider the failures that've been reported and the presumed necessity of lubing the felt ring (which apparently never occurred to the folks at Flex, who must've tested the thing under what they considered normal conditions).
 
Accumulator said:


Not having tried actually polishing my scale ;) I'd say that's a good set of guidelines. Especially the 20 = moderate, seeing as how 20 lbs. is sorta the rule of thumb AFAIK. 30 lbs. seems like a lot, possibly enough to bog it with some pads :think: I suspect that the (bogging-related) effects of increased pressure are not linear but that's just a guess.
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Yes, thirty is a lot. Some panels won't like it nor require it.

Also, consider that anything higher than moderate should be applied briefly and concentrated (tilt the pad on edge a LITTLE). Slightly tilt and push, back off and inspect. Repeat as needed and occasionally feel the surface for heat. A tilt of the machine better concentrates the applied downward pressure to the defect being attacked, so at least the whole panel isn't being 'brutalized'.



I can only imagine the force being applied to a patch of paint that is being got after with a rotary and a grabby pad.

Downward pressure and sideways twisting force must be substantial if buffed in an aggressive manner.



Accumulator said:


I somehow suspect that the Flex 3401 will deal with near-no-load at least as well as it will handle more-than-moderate pressure. Consider the failures that've been reported and the presumed necessity of lubing the felt ring (which apparently never occurred to the folks at Flex, who must've tested the thing under what they considered normal conditions).
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True. One thing nice about the random-orbital is that it is able to handle the pressure, and do so without steering your pad all over the place. It's a real fight when downward pressure is increased over normal. As long as the R/O is not flat-spotting the pad due to lack of rotation, things are good. That's why I wish there was a way to make a machine offered just a tiny bit of forced rotation. I don't want the pad steered for me, but I do want rotation to continue. So, a brief lift of the pressure, let the pad rotate a bit, an I continue polishing. Plus, if heavy pressure causes a stall of rotation, it sometimes can even reverse the random rotation (depending upon the shape of the panel, pressure, angle of the buffer, slipperiness of the panel, etc.).



Hey, as long as the pad is not flat-spotting, I don't mind.
 
Kevin Brown- You and I sure seem to be on the same page a lot these days :xyxthumbs I find myself nodding my head and saying "yeah...uh-huh...right.." a lot.



I haven't tried really leaning on the Flex yet (well, at least it didn't seem like I was at the time), but yeah, having to get *really* aggressive with a rotary can be a struggle.



Heh heh, hadn't thought of the term "flat spotting" in this context.



Have you worked with a Cyclo much? Even without forced rotation it behaves quite differently under load than machines like the PC.
 
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