Steve posts final results on wax test at RoadFly...
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imported_RIC
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I think the problem with Steve's Tests is that he does not use scientific methodology like Alex Ruiz uses in his evaluations...i.e...the Alex Ruiz finger test
"The finger test
I don't know what the paragraph title suggests, but it is not what you think I have this bad manner that with every new product I get, i have to open the bottle and smell it. Also, I like to feel the consistency with my finger, and I usually pick the remainder of what is trapped in between the cap and the bottle itself. Then, I apply it to a surface with my finger, and then remove with a microfiber.
The most important "test" done with the finger, however, is removal. Once the product dries in my finger, I wipe it with a microfiber, thus leaving my finger "waxed". Then, I proceed to wash my hands. First, regular hand soap, then dish soap, and if it fails I use APC direct. Some products are removed by the hand soap alone applied twice (megs old gold class), some of them require one application of dish soap (turtle ultra), and in one case 3 applications of direct dish soap had to be followed up with APC: collinite 476S. Glare had a good laugh at the dishsoap applications, and even the APC had a hard time taking it out of my finger. This "fast" durability test kind of indicates me how good it will fare against the elements. Taking the product out of skin should be much easier than from paint as proper bonding because of natural skin oils and perspiration is not allowed. "
"The finger test
I don't know what the paragraph title suggests, but it is not what you think I have this bad manner that with every new product I get, i have to open the bottle and smell it. Also, I like to feel the consistency with my finger, and I usually pick the remainder of what is trapped in between the cap and the bottle itself. Then, I apply it to a surface with my finger, and then remove with a microfiber.
The most important "test" done with the finger, however, is removal. Once the product dries in my finger, I wipe it with a microfiber, thus leaving my finger "waxed". Then, I proceed to wash my hands. First, regular hand soap, then dish soap, and if it fails I use APC direct. Some products are removed by the hand soap alone applied twice (megs old gold class), some of them require one application of dish soap (turtle ultra), and in one case 3 applications of direct dish soap had to be followed up with APC: collinite 476S. Glare had a good laugh at the dishsoap applications, and even the APC had a hard time taking it out of my finger. This "fast" durability test kind of indicates me how good it will fare against the elements. Taking the product out of skin should be much easier than from paint as proper bonding because of natural skin oils and perspiration is not allowed. "
I'm beginning to think that the only thing that'll fix this is some pictures. This thread is littered with complete LUNACY!
This is what Steve (may) consider a 10:
This is what all you bliterhing idiots are comparing his 10 to (no offence to any of the products, really):
Note the distinct differences.
Cindy: no nascar shirt, no cigarettes, no cabbage patch. Nice curves, easy on the eyes.
Now, of course you could look at it like "damn, cindy is high maintenance so you are saying zaino is high maintenance".. but that's what I'm getting at, tools.
This is what Steve (may) consider a 10:
This is what all you bliterhing idiots are comparing his 10 to (no offence to any of the products, really):
Note the distinct differences.
Cindy: no nascar shirt, no cigarettes, no cabbage patch. Nice curves, easy on the eyes.
Now, of course you could look at it like "damn, cindy is high maintenance so you are saying zaino is high maintenance".. but that's what I'm getting at, tools.
RIC said:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quick to find it, aren't you?
I have NEVER used the "finger test" to OBJECTIVELY report the durabilty of a product (I CHALLENGE you find a post where I have). The ONLY time I reported about my very personal approach to FORECAST product durability as a subjective PREVIEW was in the glare introduction, and you took it seriously. But now thinking it twice, what is wrong with the finger test as "predictor"? I use it myself for that purpose ONLY, PREDICTOR. I repeat it, I challenge you to find where I have reported durability objectively using the finger test?
Alex
Mindflux said:
You obviouskly didn't read this "any product that is finicky when you apply it not very thin, has a long flashing (drying) time on the paint and smears / streaks because you removed it too soon IS NOT a 10 for application / removal, period."
And what has Cindy to do here? Are you implying that the products that looked better are Cindy because the need to apply them more often means "high maintenance", and the winner, which got outperformed in initial appearance (read, not as attractive to the eyes) but lasted longer is low maintenance yet appealing because likes nascar ?
Bobsealant
New member
GoodnClean said:
For someone who whines incessantly (like a little girl) about the 'tone on autopia', and how there are 'bad posters who must go', you do very little to set a positive example. This post IS a flame directed at yet another member who is unable to defend themselves (This must be an autopia thing). Saying Steve lacks objectivity and is a 'z-head' is insulting. Who are you to make those types of statements? Who are you to question his integrity? I guess its ok since you said you 'liked him'. But that's just your way of weaseling out of your flames. If I were to call you a 'p-head' (considering your sig has been a never ending advertisment for poorboys) you'd probably cry to DavidB to get me banned.
Bottom line, I'm sick and tired of you and your hypocrisy. Get over yourself, and GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bobsealant
New member
L33 said:
Instead of ear wax, why don't we take some of your menzerna stock and test it out on a panel? Oh wait, scratch that, I don't think it will spread very well....
imported_RIC
New member
Alex, I just posted what you posted.
"I repeat it, I challenge you to find where I have reported durability objectively using the finger test? "
I don't think I stated in my post that you did...I just copy and pasted your finger test nonsense verbatim. It is the most ridiculous test or "predictor" as you now call it that I have ever read. How do you "prep" your finger? Dawn wash, 50/50 alchohol/h2o wipedown, or prepsol?
"I repeat it, I challenge you to find where I have reported durability objectively using the finger test? "
I don't think I stated in my post that you did...I just copy and pasted your finger test nonsense verbatim. It is the most ridiculous test or "predictor" as you now call it that I have ever read. How do you "prep" your finger? Dawn wash, 50/50 alchohol/h2o wipedown, or prepsol?
imported_Intermezzo
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RIC, I just shot my morning coffee out of my nose with your posts!! LMAO!!
Sorry Alex, but I think RIC's got you by the ba!!$ here!
Sorry Alex, but I think RIC's got you by the ba!!$ here!
RIC said:
You posted what I wrote, but conveniently forgot the context in my glare thread. When I wrote that preview I wanted to be as broad as possible in the introduction of a bashed product. I even added the comment of a "personal" mania I have, and I always pointed it to be exactly that, a mania. You brought it here with the sole intention of being sarcastic, and because I critized the methods of someone who happens to like the same product than you, so just wanted to have something to defend the product you like.
If you consider my personal forecast predictor "the most ridiculous test", bro, nobody is pushing you to think otherwise. I think some other people would also laugh at it, heck, even I do laugh at myself sometimes because of it. However, as many others that have very personal manias (waxing just to smell the souveran) it is just that. Just keep it in the context of what it truly means. I critize Steve results in a review, my original glare thread was even titled "product preview", so don't lose perspective. Your intention was to defend your product by bashing the critics, no other. Am I wrong? If you prefer a product over other because of its combination of virtues that makes it the best option for you, that is perfect, that is the WHY we are here. Just keep the true perspective
Alex
PD. None of them. APC 1:1 in some cases, in some others paint thinner works better, and in some others gasoline cleans my finger the best
Intermezzo said:RIC, I just shot my morning coffee out of my nose with your posts!! LMAO!!
Sorry Alex, but I think RIC's got you by the ba!!$ here!
I would agree IF his intention was different. Heck, I would also be laughing my @$$ in a different context, as I agree, I am such a dork for doing things like that (still a kid, have to touch the candy with the dirty hands....) :grinno: :grinno: :grinno: :grinno: :grinno:
However, his intention was different, he just cannot accept that not all of us consider "the most awesome detailing product" godly stuff. Don't take wrong, it is top notch and is considered the becnhmark for a reason (very well rounded, maybe the most durable, among the best looking, easy application) but it doesn't mean that you have to accept it as the absolute best that obliberates everything else in all he categories contundently. It is the most durable? consensus says yes. The best looking? for some yes, for some not. The easiest to apply? Not at all. Is is that hard to accept it?
Edit: How about making my "finger test" the quote of the month? Do I win a gift certificate to the autopia store? Do I at least win the extreme detailing silliness of the month?
Alex
PD. I accept samples to peform the "finger test"
By the way, thanks for the nomination to the nobel prize.....
imported_RIC
New member
Alex I disagree with many of Steve's results. For example, I have never got better than 6 weeks of durability with S100. I also think collinite looks better than he rated it.
His reviews are subjective, he used his own set of testing criteria trying to be objective as possible and he got the results he got. Nobody is going to agree with all of his results and thats OK. I read CR on a regular basis and I often disagree with their results also.
I am not trying to defend any products, just defending the hard work someone put into trying to test products as objectively as possible. If you don't agree with his results that is fine.
What I find ironic, is that someone that would even consider using something as ridiculous as a "finger test" and have the nerve to admit to using it would be criticizing someone elses product reviews.
P.S. And I am not your "bro"
His reviews are subjective, he used his own set of testing criteria trying to be objective as possible and he got the results he got. Nobody is going to agree with all of his results and thats OK. I read CR on a regular basis and I often disagree with their results also.
I am not trying to defend any products, just defending the hard work someone put into trying to test products as objectively as possible. If you don't agree with his results that is fine.
What I find ironic, is that someone that would even consider using something as ridiculous as a "finger test" and have the nerve to admit to using it would be criticizing someone elses product reviews.
P.S. And I am not your "bro"
1st off many wax companies say beading is not a measure of protection or durability of the product. The time to rewax a car is if a MF towel does not glide over the suface easily. I just am curious on the durability of this test as I have never seen almost any product last less than 3 weeks on my cars and they sit outside 24/7 in hot LA sun. To say products like NXT, WG last only 2 weeks is a joke. They test the old GC with more durability and that was a bad durability wax by many autopians. I have to say that this test is rather biased. I have to agree with Alex when a product is so finiky on drying time, application thickness, streaking does not deserve a 10.
RIC said:
We agree here
RIC said:
I don't think anyone has developed a truly accepted standard for testing waxes.
RIC said:
I even bolded the first paragraph in my first post in this thread "Steve deserves recognition for the effort, even if we don't agree with methods and observations. Remember, as with any product review his results will not match what others see because of environment conditions, surface prep and other factors. " Didn't you read that?
RIC said:
So what? Many people here do things such as waxing the shower doors, polishing the dryer and many others that would look ridiculous to many other people. Someone went as crazy as melting #16 and P21S waxes...... However, all that crazyness has NEVER been used to give a FORMAL review or assessment of how a product performs. I have the nerve to admit that I touch the products I get because I am curious and I don't have to hide it. Steve's writing was a formal review, an assesment of how products can perform. My "finger test" was part of a product presentation. I challenged you to find where I wrote "based on the objective and scientific evaluation of the finger test, I can safely attest that product xxxx performs as expected, getting top marks for durability on bare skin...." I am still waiting for such post. You don't like it? Fine, just don't lose the perspective. ALL the ones who have done crazy stuff are in fact the ones whose evaluations should have more validity, they are the ones curious to experiment, they are the ones looking for truth, they are the ones not settlign down, they are not the ones accepting that just because xxxx product is liked by many people it is the ultimate.
RIC said:
Your loss. After finding exactly how you are I am glad you are not.
Alex
PS. I am still waiting to see where I evaluated formally a product using the finger test......
Edit: And your product still got outperformed in the beauty categories.... specially by a can of cr@ppy turtle wax
Edit 2: If you wanted to highlight my methods and thoughts, here is a thread a I started. Why didn't you point to that one? It should be ironic too, it should be ridiculous too
jetskie said:
Everyone's a critic but I don't see any of you "Autopians" stepping up do develop a test that takes into account all the variables. What about you "Autopians" with PhDs in Chemistry? Any of you willing?
All of you have problems with the test Steve conducted but none of you care to question why the concrete in Texas is bleach white.
Alex, your finger test is a great idea. Would you please write up what finger works best and what angle to hold it? I may like this finger test so much that I will have to order extra fingers from David B. I may even have to have my testing finger clear coated.
Great job Alex, science always has room for bro's who push the envelope of wax testing. Wes
Great job Alex, science always has room for bro's who push the envelope of wax testing. Wes
l33
New member
Bobsealant said:
not sure what that means? :nixweiss :nixweiss :nixweiss
if you referring to fmj, zaino is a .000000000001 when comparing ease of use. Not even close.
fryebaby said:
Single stage painted works as good! If you run out of fingers you can always use your toes..... just remember that they are exposed to different contaminants so claying them before the polsih is a good idea. Alex
PS. I should charge for every laugh each reader got at the finger test.
By the way, to get the full scope of the finger test read the original therad where it apeared for the first time. I was the first, so I got dibs, patent pending
Glare therad
fryebaby said:
The only finger test I ever get is the middle one. ...and I'm always on the receiving end of the test!!! :nixweiss
Seriously, though, this thread needs to tone it down a notch.
Insults cast about "Autopians", "Steve", and product "XYZ" need to be removed from the conversation. There's plenty of room for everyone to have their own thoughts and bias.
Now... off to do some testing. An unsolicited box of Z-mist stuff just showed up. Hmmm... is this a hint? Odd thing is, it looks and smells like my new Sonus Super Polymist (or whatever I'm going to call it). :woot:
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