Starting Small.

B

BradUF

New member
I dont know what to do, is there a market for what I have to offer? Right I don't really want to machine buff. Also I don't want to drop 1000's to be able to transport water and power but I would feel stupid asking for water and an outlet for the Vac. I did help a friend detail his car with claybar and wax. His dad said it looked great and that he was trying to get his son to go into detailing and he thought the car looks great and my services were good enough for people to pay for. What should I do? On the plus side I have register a .com domain thats common and easy. I also know html and photoshop, adobe pagemaker and could make a decent website in about a week. Also I work on the rich side of town and I could park my SS Camaro outside with a sign on it infront of my work and I am sure I would get some calls. By the way I live in central FL. Here is my SS.



my.php
 
Sure there's a market. Take a look at your friends dad. He's already told you he'd pay for your work. The problem is being able to target the consumers that fit your niche and selling yourself... which is basically the same for any business.



I'm still pretty new in this industry professionally, but the only difference I see with myself and you, is my fear of telling potential clients, "No, I'm sorry I can't do that." So when I started, I was like a madman researching, investing in my business buying product and equipment, reading. I feel like a retard for coming to this forum so late, because of the wealth of information I've been missing here. But now having so much knowledge (and still soaking up more like a sponge) and practicing, I have the confidence to approach anyone and offer my services and feel like I can compete with the best of them.



You mentioned your web-building skills. My advice is based on personal experience, I have my own domain name and site. It's a nice touch, and can put off an aura of professional appeal, but it's going to be your one-on-one interaction with clients and potential clients that will determine how successful you'll be as a detailer.



As far as using people's utilities, I say whatever. As my business grows I'll supply my own water, but since it's at the earliest stages, I basically charge a flat rate whether they bring their cars to my house, or I go to theirs. I see it all evening out anyway. You go to their house you use gas and time resources. They come to your house (or shop) you use utilities. Besides most people understand that small business owners with the service to go to their home (or business) need to use the owners utilities. Try finding a contractor who will renovate your home using his own power and water. No such thing. Detailing is a different story, but a 'full-on' mobile detailer's services are significantly more expensive.



The most important thing is communicating to the client exactly what you will do and how you do it. If all you do is clay and wax, tell them. And tell them why you clay and wax better than any other detailer out their.



Finally, though, take this as constructive criticism, rather than trying to deflate hopes of a successful business as a detailer. I'm not really one to talk being such a new 'pro' detailer myself... but claying and waxing are two of the easiest things to do IMO. Detailing is a competitive market. If I were competing against you for a client, I'd underbid you for the 'easy' claying and waxing things, and charge whatever I want for the things you can't do. You can target the large market of people who don't care for their cars and don't know much about what a detailer does, but can you convince a person who doesn't give a damn about his car to pay anything at all for you to just wax it? (Think too that this type of car needs a miracle worker more so than detailer) And then there's the fairly large group of people who know a little about swirls and oxidation and will pay a detailer for his skills to remove the defects. The final group is the enthusiast who will know about everything you do. With what you're saying regarding the services I'm thinking you're planning to offer, you can't touch this group.



Brad, you have to at least be able to use a machine. Nobody hand polishes anymore. I think, to be a moderately successful detailer you have to be able to do these five basic things.



1) Wash & Dry

2) Vacuum

3) Wax

4) Polish (Needs a Machine)

5) Dress



... in order of of importance, not sequence.



That's what most expect from a detailer, in my experience anyway.



Anyway, sorry, for the long read, but a lot of this stuff is fresh in my mind as I've only recently started my business in the last couple of months. Like your post title says, you have to start small. But think growth, if you want success. I hope the best for your endeavors. Detailing is an extremely rewarding trade, and I hope you can find enjoyment doing it like everyone else here.



Don
 
1) Wash & Dry

2) Vacuum

3) Wax

4) Polish (Needs a Machine)

5) Dress
Click to expand...



I can do those 5 things, just not at the point where I want to take a machine to another persons car. Also you are not suppose to polish with a machine in the sunlight correct? Its suppose to be in a garage right? Also when you said I have to be able to use a machine, would a orbital buffer be good enough or do I have to learn how to use a port and polish?
 
A porter cable is a kind of random orbital polisher. And it's the best random orbital money can buy. I bought mine back in August and I too was afraid to use it on my paint. However, it is so easy...Use the right products and dont get too aggressive with pads when it's not needed and you will be fine.



As for your other question concerning the sun, you can polish out swirls in the sun using Poorboys SSR's...Im sure more people will chime in about this subject, I usually dont polish in the sun but I would think it might be more difficult to remove the polish, so maybe when removing the polish you might want to spray it with a qd then wipe off?



Hopefully more people can give you some more suggestions, just wanted to tell you, dont be afraid of the porter cable...It will expand your services to a whole new range to removing oxidation, swirls, and applying glazes, sealants, or waxes. :2thumbs:
 
Whether a weekend warrior or a full-time professional detailer, several factors need to be considered if you plan to work on a client's vehicle. First and foremost you need to be insured. This could be as little as a few hundred dollars a year for just general liability or much more if you plan on driving the vehicle at any time or even storing the vehicle at your facility be it a shop, garage, your home, ect. You never know when something could happen, and there is a possiblity of someone attacking your personal assests in a lawsuit. I'm sure you wouldn't want to lose your home because you're uninsured and someone sues you after their car caught fire while in your possession, or something to that effect. Next is you need to be properly licensed. How you set up your business, even if just a one-man-show on the weekends, could also avoid the possibility of your personal assets being attacked if you set up as an LLC or another incorporated manner. And finally, if you plan on working on another's vehicle you need to be aware of OSHA and EPA guidelines. Fines for violations could add up in the thousands of dollars and these guys typically don't care whether you do a few cars on the weekends or 60 cars during the week. If you are operating a business, (and you are if you're charging money and working on other people's vehicles on a regular basis rather than just the "I detail my parent's cars a couple time a year") then you gotta follow the rules, plain and simple.



BradUF, just to answer a couple of your questions. As a mobile operation, sometimes it's necessary to polish and seal a vehicle in direct sunlight, however, I always try to find shade or will sometimes use a canopy. There are alot of products out there that are rated for full sun, and while using those particular products...I've not run into any problems working in direct sunlight. As for the machines, yes, you can make improvements to paint using a DA polisher. That being said, you simply cannot achieve the same paint correcting results with a DA as you can with a high speed polisher in most instances and in the same time frame. Both the DA and High Speed Polishers are relatively inexpensive and can pay for themselves within your first few details. If you're really serious about doing this, I would consider investing in some training and after you build up some funds, consider purchasing an extractor or better yet a vapor steamer. You'll not only see a world of difference in the quality of your details, but will also save you much time and money in the long run. Just some things to consider if you decide to move forward. Good luck.



Matt Williams

Silver Lining Detail
 
Glad SilverLine mentioned the canopy and attending to the applicable regulations :xyxthumbs Gotta be businesslike when you're running a business.



Note that ScottWax worked by hand for a long, long time and he caters to some very high-end clients. MirrorFinishMan, IIRC, still works by hand. Not using machines didn't stop those guys from becoming successful pros. I could be wrong, but I *think* those two also go to the clients (I'm sure Scott does).
 
BradUF said:
I dont know what to do, is there a market for what I have to offer? I don't really want to machine buff. Also I don't want to drop 1000's to be able to transport water and power but I would feel stupid asking for water and an outlet for the Vac.



What should I do?

[/IMG]
Click to expand...



Hey Brad,



First of all, the statements made by gtbaka ('you have to at least be able to use a machine and nobody hand polishes anymore') are completely untrue and not based on fact.



When you are in the beginning stages of starting small, you would be much smarter to think about the things that you could do to make your detailing service just a little bit different than most of the other detailing businesses in your area. One way to be different is to only polish and wax by hand. That's something I figured out in 1986 when I started my own detailing business and that's what I continue to do today. Actually, my customers would never think of having a machine used on their vehicle. They prefer the high quality results that I have been able to provide them by doing everything by hand.



Also, the statements made by SilverLine ('First and foremost you need to be insured) (Next is you need to be properly licensed and you need to be aware of OSHA and EPA guidelines) (If you are operating a business, and you are if you're charging money and working on other people's vehicles on a regular basis, then you gotta follow the rules, plain and simple') are completely untrue and not based on fact.



Let's look at these statements in plain in simple terms. When you are first starting out what you are basically trying to do is turn a hobby into a business. As a matter of fact, in most cases you can operate your hobby for 3 to 5 years before it is actually considered a business. Think about it, just because a child opens up a Lemonade Stand on a warm summer day that doesn't mean they have got to be licensed and insured and follow all of the rules. Hey, it's only a Lemonade Stand. It's hardly a business. In the case of turning a hobby into a business it is no different. The key is to understand from the beginning that you are 'in the process' of starting a business. That process is going to take time. And you will need to go out there and gain the knowledge necessary to completely establish and grow your hobby into a profitable business.



Brad, it's basically up to you to do some research and see if there is a market for what you have to offer. It is simply a matter of finding a need and filling that need. It is really up to you to figure out what need you intend to fill. Once you have got that, then all you have got to do is find the customers that will pay the price and at the same time appreciate the service that you are offering.



In summary, you can do just about anything you want to do. There are no roadblocks.
 
Frank,



My statements about using buffers vs. hand polishing are simply based on my own opinion. I don't think one can achieve the same results by hand as can be achieve by using a machine in most instances in the same time frame. Again, just personal opinion.



Also, my statements on following the rules governing any business were not directed to those that do this for a hobby. In other words, they were not directed toward the enthusiast who works on their own cars and a few buddie's cars for a case of beer and that type of thing. They were however geared toward the professional who does this full time or even part time. Why should a person who is "just starting out" and may only be doing a couple cars a week not have to follow the same guidelines as those that do this everyday? OSHA guidelines, EPA, pay taxes, being insured, ect. Following the rules is just common sense, in my opinion. Your statement of "hey, it's only a lemonade stand" would not work in the context of a detailing business in many instances. For example, if environmental officials dropped in and fined a business who wasn't reclaiming their waste water, you couldn't say, "hey, I'm just a part time detailer. Or, if you really messed up a client's vehicle and because you weren't insured they sued you...you couldn't go to the judge and say, "hey, I'm just a part-time detailer so I didn't think I had to carry insurance". Furthermore, the party involved isn't 5 or 6 years old as such with a lemonade stand; they will be working on expensive vehicles which for most people are the second largest investment they will make besides a home. Therefore, many more issues can arise when dealing with vehicles and people are more emtionally attached. In turn, these attachments can and do bring with them the chance of a lawsuit when problems arise. Why not just do things the right way the first time around and help build the reputation of the detailing industry as a whole.



Just my two cents. I still love ya Frank. :grinno:
 
SilverLine said:
Frank,



My statements about using buffers vs. hand polishing are simply based on my own opinion. I don't think one can achieve the same results by hand as can be achieve by using a machine in most instances in the same time frame. Again, just personal opinion.



Also, my statements on following the rules governing any business were not directed to those that do this for a hobby. In other words, they were not directed toward the enthusiast who works on their own cars and a few buddie's cars for a case of beer and that type of thing. They were however geared toward the professional who does this full time or even part time. Why should a person who is "just starting out" and may only be doing a couple cars a week not have to follow the same guidelines as those that do this everyday? OSHA guidelines, EPA, pay taxes, being insured, ect. Following the rules is just common sense, in my opinion. Your statement of "hey, it's only a lemonade stand" would not work in the context of a detailing business in many instances. For example, if environmental officials dropped in and fined a business who wasn't reclaiming their waste water, you couldn't say, "hey, I'm just a part time detailer. Or, if you really messed up a client's vehicle and because you weren't insured they sued you...you couldn't go to the judge and say, "hey, I'm just a part-time detailer so I didn't think I had to carry insurance". Furthermore, the party involved isn't 5 or 6 years old as such with a lemonade stand; they will be working on expensive vehicles which for most people are the second largest investment they will make besides a home. Therefore, many more issues can arise when dealing with vehicles and people are more emtionally attached. In turn, these attachments can and do bring with them the chance of a lawsuit when problems arise. Why not just do things the right way the first time around and help build the reputation of the detailing industry as a whole.

:
Click to expand...



That's funny and very true. :LOLOL
 
I agree with Matt. You can save yourself a lot of headache by being more informed about what you are getting into.



Frank, As far as hand versus machine buffing. I don't doubt you can polish by hand. Anyone can move a mountain one rock at a time, but it's easier with a bulldozer. I've polished by hand on my own, and unlike you, have not had the same results. Waxing can be done by hand and that's all a lot of people want. However, polishing by hand could be a loooong and arduous task if you're dealing with badly damaged paint. Time becomes an essential variable in business and the machine will save you a bunch of it. It's great that you have a market share of persons who appreciate your methods. Perhaps I should have phrased my statement with a disclaimer: 'you have to at least be able to use a machine unless you are one of the rare breed that still polishes by hand.'



And thus, the question should be directed back to Brad: "Can you hand-polish and compete with the many detailers that use high speed machine buffing?"
 
I’m surprised none of the equipment salesmen has chime-in with, “you need 25k to start� LOL.........



Start as small as you want but START!!!!
 
SilverLine said:
Whether a weekend warrior or a full-time professional detailer, several factors need to be considered if you plan to work on a client's vehicle. First and foremost you need to be insured. This could be as little as a few hundred dollars a year for just general liability or much more if you plan on driving the vehicle at any time or even storing the vehicle at your facility be it a shop, garage, your home, ect. You never know when something could happen, and there is a possiblity of someone attacking your personal assests in a lawsuit. I'm sure you wouldn't want to lose your home because you're uninsured and someone sues you after their car caught fire while in your possession, or something to that effect. Next is you need to be properly licensed. How you set up your business, even if just a one-man-show on the weekends, could also avoid the possibility of your personal assets being attacked if you set up as an LLC or another incorporated manner. And finally, if you plan on working on another's vehicle you need to be aware of OSHA and EPA guidelines. Fines for violations could add up in the thousands of dollars and these guys typically don't care whether you do a few cars on the weekends or 60 cars during the week. If you are operating a business, (and you are if you're charging money and working on other people's vehicles on a regular basis rather than just the "I detail my parent's cars a couple time a year") then you gotta follow the rules, plain and simple.



BradUF, just to answer a couple of your questions. As a mobile operation, sometimes it's necessary to polish and seal a vehicle in direct sunlight, however, I always try to find shade or will sometimes use a canopy. There are alot of products out there that are rated for full sun, and while using those particular products...I've not run into any problems working in direct sunlight. As for the machines, yes, you can make improvements to paint using a DA polisher. That being said, you simply cannot achieve the same paint correcting results with a DA as you can with a high speed polisher in most instances and in the same time frame. Both the DA and High Speed Polishers are relatively inexpensive and can pay for themselves within your first few details. If you're really serious about doing this, I would consider investing in some training and after you build up some funds, consider purchasing an extractor or better yet a vapor steamer. You'll not only see a world of difference in the quality of your details, but will also save you much time and money in the long run. Just some things to consider if you decide to move forward. Good luck.



Matt Williams

Silver Lining Detail
Click to expand...



The way automotive paint is progressing / digressing, I believe the high speed wheel will become a dinosaur shortly. Highly speculative but .........?
 
SilverLine said:
Frank, My statements about using buffers vs. hand polishing are simply based on my own opinion. I don't think one can achieve the same results by hand as can be achieve by using a machine in most instances in the same time frame. Again, just personal opinion.
Click to expand...





There is actually a lot of truth in what Matt is saying. It does take longer by hand to achieve the same results when compared to using a machine. However, the key to owning and operating a successful detailing business is knowing when to use that kind of thing to your best advantage.



Let's face it, most customers are smart enough to figure out that if you charge them $250 for a detailing that takes you 5 hours to complete that you are making $50 per hour. Now listen closely here. When a vehicle requires a bit more paint correction, of course, you're going to charge more for that type of work. And the price will increase accordingly since the job may now take an extra hour or two. Since the job is now going to take more time you can certainly charge another $50 to $100 and still make your $50 per hour. The customer really shouldn't mind, since they are basically just paying for your added time.



Of course, when a machine is used the entire process should take less time and with everything in the above example being equal you should make a lot more than $50 per hour. Hey, there is nothing wrong with making $60 to $70 per hour. It certainly looks good on paper. The problem is going out there and finding those customers who are willing to pay you that much money per hour for you labor.



Along with not having to worry too much about damaging the finish of a car, the above example is probably the biggest reason why it makes sense to do everything by hand. Sure, it takes a little longer, but your customers usually won't mind paying a reasonable price for your time.
 
SilverLine said:
Also, my statements on following the rules governing any business were not directed to those that do this for a hobby.



Why should a person who is "just starting out" and may only be doing a couple cars a week not have to follow the same guidelines as those that do this everyday?
Click to expand...



Most people who have the intention of starting their own detailing business usually begin by doing a couple of cars a week. Until they actually become a registered business, they do not have to follow the same guidelines because they are considered just a hobby.
 
Deleted Post By mirrorfinishman:

"There is actually a lot of truth in what Matt is saying. It does take longer by hand to achieve the same results when compared to using a machine. However, the key to owning and operating a successful detailing business is knowing when to use that kind of thing to your best advantage.



Let's face it, most customers are smart enough to figure out that if you charge them $250 for a detailing that takes you 5 hours to complete that you are making $50 per hour. Now listen closely here. When a vehicle requires a bit more paint correction, of course, you're going to charge more for that type of work. And the price will increase accordingly since the job may now take an extra hour or two. Since the job is now going to take more time you can certainly charge another $50 to $100 and still make your $50 per hour. The customer really shouldn't mind, since they are basically just paying for your added time.



Of course, when a machine is used the entire process should take less time and with everything in the above example being equal you should make a lot more than $50 per hour. Hey, there is nothing wrong with making $60 to $70 per hour. It certainly looks good on paper. The problem is going out there and finding those customers who are willing to pay you that much money per hour for you labor.



Along with not having to worry too much about damaging the finish of a car, the above example is probably the biggest reason why it makes sense to do everything by hand. Sure, it takes a little longer, but your customers usually won't mind paying a reasonable price for your time."

***************



I think one of the most important components to being a successful detail business is to be as effecient and quality-based as possible. If you charge $X to do a service, as long as you deliver the end result properly, the less amount time involved is smarter. As mentioned in another recent post: It's better to produce a good or service with reduced overhead, instead of increased price. With all the technology on the detail market today like QEW(H2O washing substitute), I don't think there will ever be a product that eliminates the total need for a rotary buffer.
 
Interesting thread and responses. I started charging people for details shortly after I got my drivers license (16), and realized what a little bit of polish and wax could do for a car. Most people have no clue about detailing. Even if your service is only by hand, you can find a niche market for it, just as Frank has. I would though, recommend at least an orbital such as a PC or better a Cyclo. The learning curve with these machines is not that steep. When combined with the right pads and polishes, orbitals can remove some serious defects, without worrying about paint damage. You will also save a lot of wear and tear on your arms. It is better to have a business license and insurance, however, one can get by without it. Like I said, I started when I was 16, but did not get licensed until nearly seven years later. I did not get insured until nine years later. During most of this time, I was only detailing part time, and mostly for friends and family. Now that I am doing this full time, it is mandatory. It is risky though to operate without these two things. At the very least get a business license and become an LLC. It is not to difficult or expensive to get these two things. Starting any business is risky. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and spend some money to get started. Personally, I have built up my capital (equipment) over many years. I now have more detailing tools and equipment than I know what to do with. I still dont have the mobile detailing trailer, which would take my business to the next level. I plan on adding that in the next year or two. Anyways, keep learning and practicing he art of detailing. If you offer a good product, you will find a need for it. Hope some of this helps.
 
Where is a place I can get training in FL? I would be willing to pay one of you guys to help me out also.
 
Also what things do I need, so I wont get somewhere and not have a chemical. So far I have..





  • Meguiar's NXT Wax

    Wool mitt

    Turtle Wax Drying towel (5 bucks and works great for me and very reuseable)

    F21 Tire Cleaner (Also cheap, heard F21 was decent)

    Stoner Invisable Glass

    Water Blade

    Mothers Quick Detailer

    Clay Bar

    Lexol Leather cleaner and cond.

    Meguiar's Quick detailer



I know I need car shampoo, I was thinking about Sonus Slick shampoo or NXT just because I can pick that up here and its a much bigger bottle for less (I have a 10% discount at auto stores, So I would prefer to be able to pick anything up I need at PepBoys) I need a wheel brush, Exterior trim dressing, chrome polish. Microfiber towels, how many of those will I need? Hmm is that everything? I am leaning towards F21 interior cleaner.
 
Wow! As soon as I read the first post, I was prepared to write a "book long" post! Then I read the rest of the thread....



My only advice is simply to take the advice you were already given.

:bigups
 
After I wrote the following post I decided to delete it because I thought it focused too much on the process of detailing rather than the subject of Starting Small.



Deleted Post By mirrorfinishman:

"There is actually a lot of truth in what Matt is saying. It does take longer by hand to achieve the same results when compared to using a machine. However, the key to owning and operating a successful detailing business is knowing when to use that kind of thing to your best advantage.



Let's face it, most customers are smart enough to figure out that if you charge them $250 for a detailing that takes you 5 hours to complete that you are making $50 per hour. Now listen closely here. When a vehicle requires a bit more paint correction, of course, you're going to charge more for that type of work. And the price will increase accordingly since the job may now take an extra hour or two. Since the job is now going to take more time you can certainly charge another $50 to $100 and still make your $50 per hour. The customer really shouldn't mind, since they are basically just paying for your added time.



Of course, when a machine is used the entire process should take less time and with everything in the above example being equal you should make a lot more than $50 per hour. Hey, there is nothing wrong with making $60 to $70 per hour. It certainly looks good on paper. The problem is going out there and finding those customers who are willing to pay you that much money per hour for you labor.



Along with not having to worry too much about damaging the finish of a car, the above example is probably the biggest reason why it makes sense to do everything by hand. Sure, it takes a little longer, but your customers usually won't mind paying a reasonable price for your time."

***************
 
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