I've not yet dabbled into machine polishing (It seems to be almost a moot point with a daily driver, but it's swirled enough now to probably warrant it), but I've always thought you just start with a PC. However a friend of mine; who just uses a rotary suggested not even going for the PC and just get a rotary and learn it from the get go. The one thing I've looked at is that a rotary seems to get you more "machine" for just a little bit more outlay. about $60 difference between a PC and a Dewalt or Makita and it seems like you'd be getting a much more substantial machine. Just wanted some opinions... Thanks
Start with a PC or Rotary?
- Thread starter duke4ever
- Start date
wascallyrabbit
New member
conventional wisdom says start with a da pc/meg/griots as it is less likely to burn the paint. with todays mf pads and new polishes you probably don't need a rotary. i did learn the basic on a rotary some twenty years ago, didn't really have da's back then like today.
Dan
Well-known member
One slip with the rotary and you'll reduce your cost savings to nothing. When you slip up with the DA and hit some trim, nothing happens. A rotary will burn a hole in the paint in less than a second. The new DA's are so powerful you really don't even need a rotary unless you are in a hurry or do lots of cars.
That said, if your friend is so confident, perhaps you can ask him if you can practice with his rotary on his car. I'm guessing his tune will change pretty quick.
That said, if your friend is so confident, perhaps you can ask him if you can practice with his rotary on his car. I'm guessing his tune will change pretty quick.
tom p.
Active member
I started with a rotary and would not recommend it today given the alternatives available. Listen to the above suggestions. They are rational and make sense, Duke.
If you feel the need for more horsepower down the road, just grab a used Makita to have available.
If you feel the need for more horsepower down the road, just grab a used Makita to have available.
DaGonz
Autopia fire/rescue.
I first started detailing with a rortary, learning how to use one while working as a "gofer" at a body shop.
I own 2 of them... and my go to polisher is my PC. I think I've use the rotary only twice in the last couple of years.
I own 2 of them... and my go to polisher is my PC. I think I've use the rotary only twice in the last couple of years.
the other pc
New member
Dan said:
:har:
.
Accumulator
Well-known member
Same advice here....I first used a rotary back in '78 and I have two of 'em. Hardly ever touch them these days.
I'd get the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital.
I'd get the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital.
Lowejackson
New member
Well, I am going to go against the sensible opinions which have been presented for several reasons. Firstly, a rotary is not a fire breathing machine which will destroy the paint in the blink of an eye, modern pads and polishes are really quite forgiving. I am not suggesting that someone can be careless or not pay attention but merely to see the rotary for what it is, a useful power tool. The second issue is the rotary does not vibrate to the same level as a DA, which is obvious but it also means there is less vibration entering the hand/arm which can cause numbness and other problems. Thirdly, the rotary is a lot quieter, maybe not a big problem for an occasional short session but prolonger use of high levels of noise is simply not good for your ears. Finally, I am not anywhere near an expert on the rotary but I have gain higher gloss with less work compared to my old PC. I have not tried the new types of MF pads and I don't doubt their effectiveness but I do think the rotary can be a good alternative as a first polishing machine.
Of course, the type of paint can be a big factor, my Alfa has ultra hard paint and so a rotary is an appropriate tool but if you have very soft paint, a DA might be a better option
Of course, the type of paint can be a big factor, my Alfa has ultra hard paint and so a rotary is an appropriate tool but if you have very soft paint, a DA might be a better option
hamza7
New member
I started with a rotary but just this march because I wanted to make the time and effort to get it right btw I also purchased a spare door to practice on. I just ordered a pc because it's a more versatile Machine. I will use both but I guess I'll use the pc more
Dan
Well-known member
Lowejackson said:
How long will the paint on a bumper last if you touch it with the edge of a polishing pad? I've been using a rotary since 1996ish and I still make mistakes every once in a while. My last big slipup was two years ago on my bumper, I was buffing the tailgate, the pad skipped and jumped onto a part of the bumper I had not taped up. With modern pads, compounds and DA, there simply is no reason to use a rotary. But then again, you said it yourself, you were going against the sensible options.
JohnKleven
New member
If you are already proficient with power tools a rotary will be a breeze to pick up on. If you have a good teacher, or are given good direction it can be learned quite quickly. A D.A. polisher is definitely easy to use, and there is not much chance of causing any damage, but it is definitely a lot slower, and is limited to certain paint types, and level of correction even with the greatest of polishes now on the market. Since you're in PA give Barry Theal a call, I think he's attempted the usage of a rotary once or twice, and he may even give you some pointers. The most important part of a rotary polisher is having complete control at all times, this means you need to have an adjustable throttle (I recommend the new DeWalt), good backing plate (I recommend european 3M) and quality pads (I recommend Lake Country CCS Curved). Having bulky pads and a jumpy throttle can lead to burning paint and costly mistakes. Best of luck.
Dan said:
when i first started using a DA, i thought to myself that one day there will be products/pads that will change paint correction. sure enough look what we have available now and with new technology advancing, who knows what will become available at any given time. i always look forward to what's ahead with open eyes and ears...
Barry Theal
New member
BigAl3 said:
Its amazing to say the least Al. For me I was a long time Rotory user. I reach for it now and then if I need some wool, but its amazing how things have changed. The future will hold to many great things as well. Trust me on that. Pretty soon its gonna be one step for everything. Imagine going from sanding 2000 right to an lsp ready surface with a Dual Action movement. I've witnessed it first hand. I think what you'll see more and more is people using paper to remove defects then one polishing step to clean it up. I see the trend starting now with some sand papers out there. Pretty soon the ? will be, Should I sand the defects or can I work them out.
SuperBee364
New member
Lowejackson said:
I hate to argue, but I gotta disagree. Whole heartedly and with much vim and vigor. Your position is supported by an assumption of the average person's ability to use a power tool correctly. You can't assume that *anyone* can pick up a particular power tool and learn to use it safely on something as valuable as a vehicle right off the bat. Especially when that person has never used a machine polisher of *any* type prior. There's just way too much potential to inflict serious and expensive damage. There's no reason to stack the odds like that when it's not necessary; today's polishes and pads have made the DA so effective that rotary skills are no longer required to be an effective and proficient paint polisher.
Honestly, I just can't recommend a rotary to any weekend warrior anymore. You can get just darn near as much done, in a *MUCH* safer manner, with a DA.
Edit: To see the effectiveness of a DA on your hard Alpha paint, give M105 with a SurBuf pad a spin.
Even on hard paints, the DA is capable of some pretty amazing (and SAFE(er) ) correction than a rotary. 
Accumulator
Well-known member
SuperBee364 said:
Yeah, most people don't really have the knowledge base or the mindset to avoid an "oops!"; a lot of people will indulge in momentary lapses of focus, or moments of imperfect control, or will fail to consider some significant factor. In other words, they'll make a mistake that is more likely to be unfortunate with a rotary and with a random orbital.
Ya know...I can only think of *one* time that I've damaged paint with a rotary, and I've actually done far worse damage with a PC! But that's just me.
Since I do Audis on a regular basis, and do *NOT* need a rotary to correct them, I just don't see the point in taking on the added risk and the tougher learning curve. And all this talk is leaving out the whole issue of finishing out hologram-free.
Barry brings up a good point- gentle wetsanding is often safer and quicker than rotary work, and easy enough to follow up with a random orbital. Yet lots of people would *NEVER* consider wetsanding their paint for fear of messing it up.
Junebug
JAFO
A rotary has it's place. If you do boats, aluminum or gelcoat - you WILL need a rotary unless you just have to have Pop-eye like forarms. And some detailers, I'm thinking Todd Helme, use a rotary and a finishing pad to jewel the paint, I think someone did an experiment and proved that the rotary did produce a higher gloss. Not that much, but it was measurable.
So IMHO, the pro's to a rotary are:
far less vibration
faster cutting with wool
ability to jewel the paint
The cons:
heavier
a little steeper learning curve
usually requires at least 2 steps to correct/polish paint
can be messy with splatter and wool in the air and everywhere you didn't tape
can lift the paint right off a piece of plastic trim (been there-done that)
Me? I have one, wouldn't part with it cause like I said, when you need it, nothing else will do. But, I'd advise anybody starting out or even in this for a while to heed Barry Theal's advice. I did, and one brutally crap-tastic Crown Vic was knocked out in 1/3 the time it would have took had I ONLY had a rotary. How? After claying, I wet-sanded all the really sh!tty areas - RIDS and scratches, then I went at it with M105/Uno v3 and MF pads. It was a little longer one step, but it turned out great.
So IMHO, the pro's to a rotary are:
far less vibration
faster cutting with wool
ability to jewel the paint
The cons:
heavier
a little steeper learning curve
usually requires at least 2 steps to correct/polish paint
can be messy with splatter and wool in the air and everywhere you didn't tape
can lift the paint right off a piece of plastic trim (been there-done that)
Me? I have one, wouldn't part with it cause like I said, when you need it, nothing else will do. But, I'd advise anybody starting out or even in this for a while to heed Barry Theal's advice. I did, and one brutally crap-tastic Crown Vic was knocked out in 1/3 the time it would have took had I ONLY had a rotary. How? After claying, I wet-sanded all the really sh!tty areas - RIDS and scratches, then I went at it with M105/Uno v3 and MF pads. It was a little longer one step, but it turned out great.
An interesting note, I was watching a Meguiars video on YouTube where the instructor is demonstrating wet sanding and vehemently states that you cannot take sanding marks off the paint with a DA, you need a rotary. He then goes on to show the work of a rotary vs a DA on the wet sanding marks. It however makes sense to me what Barry is saying; and aside from that I usually just look at videos like that cautiously erring on the side of "they're trying to sell me something"
Barry Theal said:
you know.. there are always nay-sayers and will think that the DA can't produce or do work that of the rotary, and that's okay. it was just a matter of time where there would be products to adapt to the physics of DA (you knew it was going to happen at some point or time) where it would make it just as efficient to get as good or better results and who knows what's next. i would like to thank you barry for being part of Autopia and sharing your incite and skills to help educate others. people like you, fermani, tdekany, scottwax, gmblack3a, accumulator, kevin brown, etc. (plus a few others that i trust opinions on), that makes Autopia the place that it is and the best auto car care enthusiast forum around...