Spot Buffs Kit - WARNING!!

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AL-53 said:
The hex may be be there also to un loosen the adapter after use..with the thread being right handed..and the rotation being clockwise..the adapter should tighten tighter than a bulls A$$..so the hex head may be needed to undue the adapter...and the plastic washer being a compression washer to lock in..also to not have a metal to metal bond...could be a million reasons why it failed...pads threads may be over sized due to a dirty tap on the production press...

worked in a machine shop a few years..and doing QC on production run parts ..you grabbed one to check it on a optical comparator to see if spec's are variant..and believe it or not..you get parts out of spec..due to wear on taps..dies...brooches...carbide cutters...and tool chucks due to build up.

it is just like cars..some get a sweet heart..some get lemons....

and Autogeek is in no way part of this...it is a manufacturer's responsibility to enforce QC .

I am suprised LC did not ask to have piece sent to them to examine them to rule out a defect...

I work as a mechanic now for the Post Office and see bad machining all the time and wonder how it lasted that long before it finally broke...

Al
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Thank you. My thoughts exactly. I couldn't believe that they would just dismiss my issue without seeing the actual BP and adapter in person. There's only so much you can learn from a picture.
 
Sorry, I would also like to thank Dwayne for being Switzerland in this war. It was unfair of Eric to put Dwayne in the middle of this.
 
Hey guys, and Happy New Year.

Well, I wasn't going to say anything, because I felt it was just me.
But after reading Mikeyc's post, i have to say he has my support, because
the exact same thing happened to me. I attached everything securely
(or so I thought), and went to work on a small sections of a client's
decklid @ 6. Halfway through, i started to feel an odd vibration. I thought
it was just the PC messing with my hands again, so I steppeed down
the speed to 4, but I still got the vibration. I stopped and checked the
pad, and it was fine. But the backing pad was loose on the adpater. I
re-tightened everything again, and again I got the same thing. Eventually
I just went with my rotary, small backing plate, and Megs Sof buff. In
the long run, I accomplished more with that setup than futzing about
with the PC, spotbuff and the the adapter.

Personally, I think I was very lucky that I caught the problem in
advance, otherwise, I would be in the same boat as Mike. But it would
have probably cost more since the car wasn't mine (and there are a lot
of customers out there that wouldnt think twice about putting the screws
to someone doing work for them).

Ths Spot Buff pads are great, and I use them all the time. But after reading
about Mike's situation, I am even more uncomfortable about using the
adapter and the backing plate. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but
at this stage, having had the thing loosen up twice, I'm not going to
take any chances.
 
USDM,

Thanks for sharing your story. I was inclined to believe that I couldn't be the only one with this problem. Manufacturing a product over and over again does not result in the production of the same item continuously. There are variances in mass produced products. Clearly you and I have received products which have manufacturing problems. However, Lake Country has failed to acknowledge our problem. Luckily, it did not result in monetary loss to you or your business.

I on the other hand am out $540 due to the failure of their product. Unfortunately, what LC failed to realize is that I am currently out of work and $540 means even more to me right now than it normally would. Especially when it's $540 I shouldn't have had to spend. Since I have no job and nothing but time on my hands I've also posted my story on several other websites and have already told the story to several acquaintances in person. Everyone learns in marketing 101 that a happy customer tells a few people, but an unhappy customer tells everyone.

I hope that Lake Country continues to monitor this thread and that other Spot Buffs users with problems continue to come out of the wood work. I also hope anyone who buys the Spot Buffs kit reads this and knows to wrench tighten their adapter before use and to pray that it stays put.
 
Mikeyc said:
If the problem is that the adapter needs to be wrench tightened then IMO it's negligent not to put instructions in the kit indicating this.
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:yes: Very True. LC needs to add instructions on what speed, torque, & wrench type can be used for the Bp's. After more than one person goes thru this can we imagine how many people don’t say anything. :censored: Mike I know how you feel. I would honestly make it worst but I know that you are an honest person that has just been a victim of neglect from Lake Country. IMO I also don’t like that E-mail that was sent. That shows unprofessional Customer Service to a client that is a DC contributor. If there were no instructions then we might have a more complicated issue that can legally be solved. But im sure that will not be the case. Unless if Mikey is still mad
( which I know I’d be ) Also I’m mad @ LC because after having to read this thread it would at least be a moral obligation to give the customer a compensation.

I too like the way Autogeek transfered you to the LC people.


Can you guys imagine the Makita with no instructions. :yes:
 
Mikeyc said:
USDM,

Thanks for sharing your story. I was inclined to believe that I couldn't be the only one with this problem. Manufacturing a product over and over again does not result in the production of the same item continuously. There are variances in mass produced products. Clearly you and I have received products which have manufacturing problems. However, Lake Country has failed to acknowledge our problem. Luckily, it did not result in monetary loss to you or your business.

I on the other hand am out $540 due to the failure of their product. Unfortunately, what LC failed to realize is that I am currently out of work and $540 means even more to me right now than it normally would. Especially when it's $540 I shouldn't have had to spend. Since I have no job and nothing but time on my hands I've also posted my story on several other websites and have already told the story to several acquaintances in person. Everyone learns in marketing 101 that a happy customer tells a few people, but an unhappy customer tells everyone.

I hope that Lake Country continues to monitor this thread and that other Spot Buffs users with problems continue to come out of the wood work. I also hope anyone who buys the Spot Buffs kit reads this and knows to wrench tighten their adapter before use and to pray that it stays put.
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LC should of been testing your polisher not running some tests in his back room as he said he did with some other polisher. I'm with you on this one ,but I do dissagree with one comment you made. A HAPPY CUTOMER TELLS A FEW,
well in the normal world I would agree with you but the people on this site I feel are above normality as they are the kind of people that DO TELL EVERYONE when they are treated well or find a qualty fender or product ,and the world needs more people like that. Its easy to get mad and xxxxx but to praise when praise is diserved is above being normal and people here do that. Think of the praise LC could of had!!!!
 
glen22 said:
LC should of been testing your polisher not running some tests in his back room as he said he did with some other polisher. I'm with you on this one ,but I do dissagree with one comment you made. A HAPPY CUTOMER TELLS A FEW,
well in the normal world I would agree with you but the people on this site I feel are above normality as they are the kind of people that DO TELL EVERYONE when they are treated well or find a qualty fender or product ,and the world needs more people like that. Its easy to get mad and xxxxx but to praise when praise is diserved is above being normal and people here do that. Think of the praise LC could of had!!!!
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It's funny that you wrote this post. I was actually holding out on starting this thread until I heard LC's final answer. If they had re-imbursed me for the damage caused by their product, this thread would have sung their praises and lauded them for their great customer service. In the end it turns out their customer service is crap and I've expressed that.

In the end, these threads have made me feel a little better about the situation. I've been able to vent my anger and among the various threads several people have popped up who have had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. The only difference being that they caught the BP spinning off before it had completely come off. It happened so fast with me there was no way I could have caught it.

This thread will be here when anyone searches this site (and several others where I've started the same thread) for Lake Country or Spot Buffs. It will be a continuing reference to anyone considering buying the Spot Buffs Kit or Lake Country products.
 
Mikeyc said:
It's funny that you wrote this post. I was actually holding out on starting this thread until I heard LC's final answer. If they had re-imbursed me for the damage caused by their product, this thread would have sung their praises and lauded them for their great customer service. In the end it turns out their customer service is crap and I've expressed that.
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Or once folks read here and on Autopia where you posted this as well, those who had this kit could claim damage on their car in a spot they wanted body work done. My driver's side door has a nasty dimple. Bam, I nick my door with the adapter - now pay for the damage your product caused. You did it for Mikeyc.

Lord knows how many of these adapter have been sold. How many have caused problems? LC does produce high quality products. How many sponsors here sell their pads? How many sponsors have LC silk screen on their company information to the pads?

LC customer service was awesome with me regarding some older style pads that were coming apart. I received free, new pads, no shipping charge sent to my home.

I'm sorry what happended to you. It totally blows. But just because it isn't resolved the way you want, mean that you were correct to begin with or bemoan the fact on 2 detailing sites.

My adapter works great on the PC and drill. Sounds like user error.
 
So true StinkPinky! So true. Talk about a lynch mob!

I went to the Autogeek.net link that Mickeyc posted and no where on that pad kit page does it mention Lake Country Manufacturing. On the label of that kit box it has a PBMA logo that stands for Palm Beach Motoring Accessories. Is passing the buck an admirable trait these days?

It looks like they boxed this foam pad kit and did not include instructions. Then, when a customer that claims he doesn't take putting things on his paint finish lighty had an issue, they passed it off to the manufacturer of the pads.

There are numerous people here that should learn a lesson from this.


#1 Mickeyc - Don't assume anything when it comes to using power tools on your vehicle's paint. if no instructions were included, you should have asked questions. You could have gotten advice from Autogeek and Lake Country BEFORE the damage happened. THEN, if you had issues that resulted in damage, you would have more of a leg to stand on.


#2 PBMA/Autogeek - Looks like you guys packaged this kit and put YOUR name on it. There should be detailed instructions on how much to tighten the adapter included. You have to remember who you are dealing with here. Right or wrong, it's human nature for people to assume things. You need to put things in black and white to cover your backside. (Remember the controversy in December when you ran a special and said no $1.00 orders but you didn't really specify a minimum order requirement? $1.01 would have been a qualifying order unless you specify.)


#3 Lake Country Manufacturing - I think these guys are getting the shaft here. You cannot expect a company to pony up $540 when #1 and #2 could have taken steps to prevent this.


I propose a resolution that all three parties accept 1/3 responsibility and pay $180 and call it even. Now THAT would be fair to everyone involved and would teach #1, #2 and #3 all a very valuable lesson.
 
Leyland said:
#2 PBMA/Autogeek - Looks like you guys packaged this kit and put YOUR name on it. There should be detailed instructions on how much to tighten the adapter included. You have to remember who you are dealing with here. Right or wrong, it's human nature for people to assume things. You need to put things in black and white to cover your backside. (Remember the controversy in December when you ran a special and said no $1.00 orders but you didn't really specify a minimum order requirement? $1.01 would have been a qualifying order unless you specify.)




]
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very true i find it Hilarious on how PBMA/Autogeek puts their name on the prodcut & then transfers you to the original manufacturer. :rofl i hope the same doesnt happen with futute foam guns thay plan on selling.
 
Personally, I think PBMA simply sends LC a file with their logo and LC packages the whole deal and adds the logo for them. It's not an uncommon practice.

Also, people continually seem to feel that it was user error because I should have known to tighten the pieces with a wrench. This is a load of :horse:. Do any of you use a wrench to tighten other BPs to your PC???? I sure know I just use the inlcuded wrench to hold the nut in place while I hand tighten the BP. I did the same with this kit. Other BPs have never spun off. So, why would I assume this one should be any different???

Also, I've posted this thread on many, many websites and am continually searching for more places and methods to share my story. I'm irrate. I would take them to small claims court, but after filing fees, etc. I'm sure I wouldn't be getting the money I deserve. So, instead I've taken my case to the court of public opinion.

I'm also quite insulted by those who have posted that I may be doing this to get LC to pay for a repaint I would have done anyway. I can assure you my hood was flawless before the "Spot Buffs incident." I had some light marring that I was trying to remove at the time and that was it. Please don't put me in the same boat as that lady who put a finger in her Wendy's chili.

IMO there were only two possible problems here:

1. LC is negligent for not including proper instructions in the kit indicating the necessity of a wrench. Yes I blame LC and not PBMA because I believe LC packages the kit.

2. I am the victim of a manufacturing variance. LC testing another kit would yield different results because manufacturing variances rarely show up in a significant manner on a significant number of the manufactured parts. It's even possible that it was the washer that failed. However, it flew off and I'm not going to get on my hands and knees looking for this teeny tiny thing in my 2+ car garage.

Personally, I felt LC's investigation was very superficial and to this point no one knows what the actual cause of the incident was. I can tell you this was an opportunity for LC to get some great PR and to gain a lifetime customer. It was also an opportunity for them to learn more about their product and to improve it. Instead, they fell on their face with their superficial investigation and insulted me with the insinuation that I am so mentally challenged that I am incapable of screwing two pieces together with any modicum of tightness.

To those of you who have had positive customer service interactions with LC, I am very happy to hear that. Every one of your stories however has been about replacing a pad which probably costs them $0.50 to manufacture. I'm sure someone asking for damage re-imbursement in the amount of $540 is treated differently.

One last thing. A lot of people seem to have the impression that my thread is intended to state that all LC products are garbage. This is not the case. I have many, many 6.5" LC pads and other backing plates with fixed screw posts which function perfectly fine. My only statement here is that the BP/adapter I have from the spot buffs kit is either defective or I was not properly instructed on its use. However, I'm certainly not buying any additional products from a company that doesn't do a better job of customer service than this.
 
Mikeyc said:
Please don't put me in the same boat as that lady who put a finger in her Wendy's chili.
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Nobody is. But when you post it all over the Internet as you're trying to do in your one man rage, out the many hundreds of folks who read it, a handful of pinheads may get that idea if you reported that LC footed the bill for your screw up.

If the kit had PBMA logos on it, then deal with them. They're the ones re-badging that product with their good name on it. They should re-paint your car!
 
Mikeyc said:
Personally, I think PBMA simply sends LC a file with their logo and LC packages the whole deal and adds the logo for them. It's not an uncommon practice.[/QUOTE}

Thinking and knowing for sure are totally different things.

Mikeyc said:
Also, people continually seem to feel that it was user error because I should have known to tighten the pieces with a wrench. This is a load of :horse:. Do any of you use a wrench to tighten other BPs to your PC???? I sure know I just use the inlcuded wrench to hold the nut in place while I hand tighten the BP. I did the same with this kit. Other BPs have never spun off. So, why would I assume this one should be any different???
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So you do admit that you use a wrench to hold the nut in place on the PC while using a traditional backing plate setup but that you did not see the need to secure the backing plate to the adapter? Why would you assume that this concept would be any different? The key word here is assume. You should not have assumed anything since you do not take polishing your paint lightly.



Mikeyc said:
Also, I've posted this thread on many, many websites and am continually searching for more places and methods to share my story. I'm irrate. I would take them to small claims court, but after filing fees, etc. I'm sure I wouldn't be getting the money I deserve. So, instead I've taken my case to the court of public opinion.
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You'd lose your case in front of a reasonable judge.

Mikeyc said:
I'm also quite insulted by those who have posted that I may be doing this to get LC to pay for a repaint I would have done anyway. I can assure you my hood was flawless before the "Spot Buffs incident." I had some light marring that I was trying to remove at the time and that was it. Please don't put me in the same boat as that lady who put a finger in her Wendy's chili.

IMO there were only two possible problems here:

1. LC is negligent for not including proper instructions in the kit indicating the necessity of a wrench. Yes I blame LC and not PBMA because I believe LC packages the kit.[/QUOTE}

Are you assuming this or do you know it as fact?

Mikeyc said:
2. I am the victim of a manufacturing variance. LC testing another kit would yield different results because manufacturing variances rarely show up in a significant manner on a significant number of the manufactured parts. It's even possible that it was the washer that failed. However, it flew off and I'm not going to get on my hands and knees looking for this teeny tiny thing in my 2+ car garage.
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Since you do not have it and do not want to locate it, you have not proven that you installed it in the first place.

Mikeyc said:
Personally, I felt LC's investigation was very superficial and to this point no one knows what the actual cause of the incident was. I can tell you this was an opportunity for LC to get some great PR and to gain a lifetime customer. It was also an opportunity for them to learn more about their product and to improve it. Instead, they fell on their face with their superficial investigation and insulted me with the insinuation that I am so mentally challenged that I am incapable of screwing two pieces together with any modicum of tightness.
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Well, you weren't all that capable of finding the washer so why should we think that you tightened the parts properly?

Mikeyc said:
To those of you who have had positive customer service interactions with LC, I am very happy to hear that. Every one of your stories however has been about replacing a pad which probably costs them $0.50 to manufacture. I'm sure someone asking for damage re-imbursement in the amount of $540 is treated differently.
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There is a risk of damage everytime someone uses a power tool around a paint finish. It is up to the end user to ensure that all precautions are taken. Sorry about the damage. I'm sure your hurting for money and I hope you find a job soon.

Mikeyc said:
One last thing. A lot of people seem to have the impression that my thread is intended to state that all LC products are garbage. This is not the case. I have many, many 6.5" LC pads and other backing plates with fixed screw posts which function perfectly fine. My only statement here is that the BP/adapter I have from the spot buffs kit is either defective or I was not properly instructed on its use. However, I'm certainly not buying any additional products from a company that doesn't do a better job of customer service than this.
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Leyland said:
Well, you weren't all that capable of finding the washer so why should we think that you tightened the parts properly?
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Are you f-in' serious?!?!?!? What on earth do you want me to do comb my garage with a magnifying glass trying to find this tiny little washer which for all I know could have broken into pieces?!?!?!

All I know is that LC's investigation was cursory at best. The only thing it proves is that they were able to successfully use another copy of the pad kit in their own offices. Congratulations.

Yes, I do use the wrench that came with the PC to attach my BPs. I hold the nut in place with the wrench, grip the BP, and turn with the hand holding the BP. I used the exact same procedure with the SB kit. Gripping the BP and the wrench should have tightened both screw joints.

Also, please people this is a website for logical discussion. Not assinine, sarcastic comments about linking one's ability to find a washer in a couple hundred square feet of cluttered garage and the ability to turn a screw.
 
You know...if you sell an item, even re-selling, to the consuming public one should have liability insurance and if you sell in Wal-Mart / K-Mart / AutoZone it is required. So technically PBMA is passing the buck and not bucking up....probably because they are to busy repackaging other people's products.
 
Mikeyc said:
Also, please people this is a website for logical discussion.
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As well as not a place to continue to whine and moan like petulant, little school girl. It's enough that this thread is beat on like a nerd in middle school over at Autopia, but here too?

But, Leyland has been quite logical.

Go complain to the site sponsor Autogeek. It was their marketing all over your kit, not Lake Country. Nowhere is LC mentioned on Autogeek's site when it comes to this product. You say they're "awesome" simply because they forwarded (passed the buck) to LC?!

My keyboard went out on my new Dell. You know who replaced it? Dell! Why? Because #1 they sold it to me and #2 they didn't pass it off the manufacturer of the keyboard (which is not Dell).
 
Mikeyc: I feel you. * i think that LeyLand is flaming you knowing that you were a victim of a bad product. leyland SHAME on you ! :chair: This is no place for a Pseudo Lawyer.
 
MikeyC has had something unfortunate occur.
He voiced his problem, and he feels that his problem wasn't resolved to his satisfaction.

What I am asking is instead of name calling, be a bit understanding.
I'm sure that any of us here would be upset if this happened to their car.

I am not taking anyones side, all I am asking is that we can maintain a peaceful dicussion

Thank You,
"J"
 
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