Sound proofing to reduce road noise

Second Skin and Raammat seem to be the concensus choices for quality materials at a much, much lower price than Dynamat Extreme. Both carry products that are full butyl materials with no asphalt. Below is a summary of info I've gathered from lurking on various boards.



Second Skin Damplifier has an adhesive that can be repositioned if only lightly applied, and then sticks very well once tamped or rolled into final position. It has a relatively thick aluminum foil constraining layer. This may be helpful in vibration control. It is also a bit tougher on the hands during cutting and installation. Second Skin also carries various other sound barrier and absorption mats. The owner, Anthony (ANT), is said to be really helpful. Look on caraudioforum.com, caraudio.com, toyotanation.com, yotatech.com for news of discounts for forum members. These discounts may be old info, as ANT now has his own forum on his website, and membership provides a discount. Sound Deadening Materials for Noise Reduction from Second Skin



Raamaudio is likewise owned by a fellow said to be very personable and helpful. While Second Skin offers a range of materials, Rick McCallum at Raamaudio keeps it simple with two main products: raammat and ensolite closed cell foam sheeting. Prices are excellent. Raammat is a butyl mat of the same thickness as Damplifier's main product, but the foil is thinner and has a poly film above and below it. People having used it say it is easier on the hands and easier to cut, but it is unclear if there is any effect on vibration constraint. Also, the adhesive really grabs, so take care not to touch it to a position that is not its final home. RAAMaudio - Quality and Value in Automotive Sound Deadening
 
eDead from Elemental Designs is also a very popular Dynamat alternative and the guys from ED are known to be extremely helpful. They also have their own forums as well.
 
There have been some posts saying that eDead's matting fell off vertical surfaces in summer heat. This may be an older version of the material. Also see the sound deadener shootout, for which the url is provided earlier in this string.



If they have brought out a new version of the product that doesn't have the adhesion problems, this could be a really cost-effective way to go.
 
If you are keeping your car long term make the investment and go with Dynamat Extreme.

You'll be glad that you did.

I didn't insulate mine to enhance the audio since I rarely turn on the stereo in my car.

I did it for the sound deadening properties and there is a definite difference.

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Thump rrr

Want to post more pics of your process, and what you observe as the result?



In particular, I'd be interested in what you found difficult, what you found easy, and what seemed to make the most difference, if you did things incrementally.



Personally, I'm intimidated by the thought of ripping out my entire interior. How long did that take you?
 
Sherri Zann said:
Thump rrr

Want to post more pics of your process, and what you observe as the result?



In particular, I'd be interested in what you found difficult, what you found easy, and what seemed to make the most difference, if you did things incrementally.



Personally, I'm intimidated by the thought of ripping out my entire interior. How long did that take you?
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I actually didn't take anymore pictures I only took that one because someone thought I was B.S.ing them that I had the interior torn out of the car.

Removing the interior took about 2 hours in total including the center console and center stack.

I took my time over 2 evenings and completed the whole floor from firewall to under the rear seats. I really underestimated how much material was required.

There is nothing difficult about it if you do it thoughtfully.

Most interior trim pieces on modern cars don't even have any fastners in them.

I probably removed 30 screws and bolts in total including the seats and seatbelt anchors.

The rear seat comes out in 20 seconds and weighs less than 8Lbs.

The front seats only have 4 bolts each holding them in place + 1 wiring harness for the power seats and 1 for the airbags.



I did mine incrementally with the floor and trans tunnel being first.

I have longtube headers on the car along with an aftermarket K-Member and very firm urethane motor mounts and it reduced the sound, vibration and especially the amount of heat that was coming into the vehicle through the floor.

With the car having folding rear seats the next area which will be tackled will be the trunk area since I installed the new mufflers last fall.
 
Messing around with sound insulation is like pissing in the wind vs a good set of quiet tires like Goodyear Comfortreds for example.I've got them on my Benz and they're the quietest tires i've ever owned.
 
M54 said:
Messing around with sound insulation is like pissing in the wind vs a good set of quiet tires like Goodyear Comfortreds for example.I've got them on my Benz and they're the quietest tires i've ever owned.
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Driving on a set of comfortreads is like driving on tires made of jello. I'll stick to my Michelin Pilotsport PS2 thanks.

Road noise isn't the only thing people are trying to abate by adding sound deadening material.
 
thump_rrr said:
Driving on a set of comfortreads is like driving on tires made of jello. I'll stick to my Michelin Pilotsport PS2 thanks.

Road noise isn't the only thing people are trying to abate by adding sound deadening material.
Click to expand...





Well what else on the car touches the road?
 
M54 said:
Well what else on the car touches the road?
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Check again what thump_rrr said: "Road noise isn't the only thing people are trying to abate by adding sound deadening material."



Tires are the only thing that touch the road, but NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) in the cabin comes from much more than just tires alone. For drivers that are performance-oriented, sacrificing handling for a quieter ride isn't going to be acceptable. This thread is (mostly) about what can be done to quiet the cabin *other* than swapping out tires.



Tort
 
Sherri Zann said:
I'm looking to see if Autopians can clarify the issue of how to efficiently reduce noise in cars. This is one of the best sites on the web for intelligent inquiry about cars, and this is a topic with a lot of half-baked posts on other sites.



I've been doing a lot of research on noise reduction in cars. On many sites, the Dynamat or other heavy matting is put on every square inch of interior door skins and floor panels. Maybe a thin bit of closed cell foam is then put on top of this.



But when I look at scientific research on auto noise reduction, it looks like recent computer models are showing how to REDUCE the amount of metal damping to optimize weight/noise. In Europe, they discovered that they could get better sound damping and save both bulk and weight by using thin layers of dense and less dense felt to absorb sound. Here's a press release about an interesting recent study by the EU: Smart sound insulation in cars leads to lower environmental emissions



I just used old yoga matting in the A-pillars of my civic to reduce squeaks and deaden the sound.



Anybody here have ideas about efficient and effective noise reduction in cars?
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Start with the main source,tires!



The right tires will have more impact than a 100lb's of dynamat would.
 
Yeah, I thought the super soundproofing web site was interesting, too. But it looks sort of jack leg, and I wouldn't feel comfortable spending $80-some without knowing someone who used the product and said it was worth it.



Anyone here used this hoodliner, or any other?
 
thump_rrr said:
I really underestimated how much material was required.
Click to expand...



I'm looking at doing the same this year. Roughly how many sqare feet did it take to do the floor? did you do the doors and roof too?
 
nonsensez9 said:
I'm looking at doing the same this year. Roughly how many sqare feet did it take to do the floor? did you do the doors and roof too?
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Almost 40 sq ft for the floor alone.

I haven't done the doors or roof yet.
 
I have a question, A lot of noise i get is mostly wind noise as my saab is pretty well insulated from road noise.



I'm guessing most of this is from 14 year old seals around the doors and such, and would putting caulking stuff behind the strips (making them a little thicker) create a better seal with the door against the frame and quiet wind noise down a lot? Or does that sound silly?
 
Acoustic deadening such as fleece and other materials has been done alot with home audio, in sound rooms, and in movie theatres for a LONG time. The problem is that you have to have a certain thickness to absorb certain frequencies. When you add a deadener to to metal it adds mass to it. If I'm not mistaken some high end car manufacturers even use sand to fill in the floorboards to reduce outside noise. Butyl based and asphault based deadenerss are used alot in car audio and it isn't uncommon for some vehicles to have 8+ layers of this stuff inside. I have 4 layers in certain places in my truck along with a material called ensolite which is a foam that works as a sound barrier as well. I even know of guys that have lead sheets sewn into their floor matts to reduce vibration. It really does make a huge difference inside the cabin. As mentioned though....tires to make a big difference as well. Don't expect a truck that has 35" super swampers on it to greatly benefit from this.



Here is some neat info if you wanna do some reading:



Sound Deadener Showdown





My Truck:



deadener1


deadener2.jpg


deadener3.jpg


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So, extremecustomze, did you do any spl measurements on that truck before and after? And did you notice any gasoline mileage reduction after all that deadener was added? Looks like it would add 50-75 pounds of weight.
 
Boon 4376, if you are talking about the foam rods that are used to cram into spaces prior to caulking big gaps (sometimes called 'backer rods'), I think that might be a pretty good idea to get a better seal.



There was a fellow who experimented with small diameter rods like that to get a better seal on his windows. He also found that most of the noise was from the small corner where the window met the door frame, and that a very small bit of the foam stuffed in that corner solved it. But many folks felt that the foam backer rod really helped seal out noise.



$5 foam tube + rubber door seals = less wind noise? - Club Lexus Forums This is the thread. "$5 foam tube + rubber door seals." Go to the third page or so, and there is an improved method suggested by another poster. Also, if you just read the beginning, you will buy 3/8 inch foam, which is probably too large, as folks were cutting it in half length-wise to get the seals to fit back on properly.



Frankly, the seals on my 2003 Civic are like new, but I still think that they should be tighter to limit wind noise better. So I think even with like-new seals, this method could be helpful.
 
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