Sonus Ultra-fine clay ?

M

mpmiller37

New member
How can this ultra-fine clay claim:



"In fact, Sonus SFX Ultra Fine Detailing Clay is so fine that it will not remove most waxes"



Yet it removes:

- Road grime (tar, grease, tire rubber)

- Bug and bird remains

- Rail and brake dust

- Fine paint overspray

- Road salts

- Hard water deposits

- Factory fallout and acid rain



If it can remove those things, then it certainly will remove the wax. Am i missing something ? Has anyone used this product ?
 
I dont know with certainty how it works, but think about it this way. Paint is the base layer, the wax is the next layer, and then the contaminents are the top layer. The clay will just remove the top layer. How it does it, im not sure, but like Mr. Pontiac said, DavidB should be along sometime and answer your question for you :dance
 
Clay is an abrasive contaminant remover whether you are using a fine or medium grade. Since it shears/pulls using mechanical action, it will remove some of your wax/sealant. The medium grade would be more aggressive than the fine and is usually recommended for paint overspray removal. If you clay aggressively, you will remove more wax.
 
Gotta differentiate between claying off contamination that's in the paint and contamination that's in the LSP. Here, the assumption is that the paint was clean/contamination-free before you LSPed it and the contamination is stuck in the LSP.



As I'm always saying, if you clay gently enough (big "if") most clays (e.g., Sonus green and gray, Mother's, Griot's) don't remove an appreciable amount of LSP. Having used clay for about 15 years, I'd have noticed by now ;) The Sonus green is very mild and thus easier to use in a nonaggressive manner. It's so mild I sometimes reach for the Sonus gray.



The Sonus green (or any mild clay that's used very gently) appears to clean contaminants off/out of the LSP itself. You're shearing the contamination off the surface of the LSP with the clay floating above the LSP in a layer of lube.



If you get tar/etc. on your LSP you can remove it with the Sonus green and there does not appear to be any practical effect on the LSP (done it at every wash since this clay came out). If it removes any LSP (and it probably does), it's not enough to notice.



OTOH, if you wax *over* some contamination, you'll have a *VERY* hard time claying off both the LSP and the contamination with the green clay. It's so mild that it will only cut through the LSP with very aggressive (too aggressive IMO) technique and a lot of work. I experimented by putting various LSPs over contamination and then claying with the green stuff until the contamination was gone. It took a lot of claying to get through *any* of the LSPs I tested with. Even Meg's #5 took a bit of doing to cut through!
 
Well, if the clay is getting the contamination out of the LSP, then why bother with clay, just use a paint cleaner product to clean the paint and reapply LSP. I have a hard time understanding the concept of "contamination in the LSP". That basically sounds like a dirty car that needs washing, as the LSP is merely a thin soft coating not to be compared to contamination in the clearcoat (which is a hard material). Not sure if I'm buying into this clay that does not remove wax. If it doesn't remove wax then it sounds like its washing the LSP clean but I know that this clay does have abrasives, even if they are very mild. Just my thoughts as I have no experience with this product.
 
I think the idea is that clay will remove any contamination ABOVE the paint/wax layer. Since wax is a smooth layer (provided it has no contamination within it), the clay should not have an effect on it. Any contaminants will be sticking above the wax surface and thus will be sheared off by the action of the clay.
 
mpmiller37 said:
Well, if the clay is getting the contamination out of the LSP, then why bother with clay, just use a paint cleaner product to clean the paint and reapply LSP...
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I don't want to redo my LSPs. Once I get the finish the way I want and my LSPs layered, I want things to stay the way they are. Plus, using the clay as I wash is quick and easy, adding only a few minutes onto the wash process.



.. I have a hard time understanding the concept of "contamination in the LSP". That basically sounds like a dirty car that needs washing..
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Since I wash very gently, dirt that's really stuck to my vehicles doesn't always come off in the wash. So I use the clay to *very* carefully remove it. This might not be the right approach for everyone, but it works well for me- better than any other approach I've tried.



Maybe I should put it this way: Any contamination that's in/on the paint should be dealt with long before you apply the LSP. Once your paint is prepped and waxed, the contamination *will* be in the LSP. It won't eat through the LSP and stick to the paint unless it's some nasty stuff that's left on the vehicle for a long time. In that case, yeah, you're looking at a completely different situation and you'll be redoing things in that area.



Not sure if I'm buying into this clay that does not remove wax. If it doesn't remove wax then it sounds like its washing the LSP clean but I know that this clay does have abrasives, even if they are very mild. Just my thoughts as I have no experience with this product.
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If clay removed LSP I'd have to redo the LSP on my vehicles more frequently than I do- much more often in the areas I frequently clay as opposed to the areas I seldom clay. As I said, I've been doing this at *every* wash for a long time, so even if I might not know exactly *why* it's happening the way it does I do know *what's* happening. It's pretty obvious when something does/doesn't strip off the LSP. I can clay without removing LSP and I can tell when I clay more aggressively that it *is* removing LSP.



Consider that abrasives can be so mild as to be *functionally* nonabrasive, and don't forget the effect that the lube has. The clay is floating above the LSP until it runs into the contamination, which it shears off. The clay isn't really touching the LSP much, it's touching the lube.



But it's not like everyone has to use the same approach. If things are going fine with what you're doing that's cool with me; I'm not trying to talk everybody into doing this stuff my way. Maybe I sound a bit too enthusiastic about this :o because it's worked so well for me so I hope I don't sound all :argue:
 
Great input. I'm only asking because I was thinking of using the product so its good to hear from someone with experience. So you use the Sonus ultra-fine or some other brand ? I'm assuming you use no pressure at all on the bar (beside the weight of your hand) and let it glide or do you apply a little pressure ?



Thanks
 
mpmiller37 said:
So you use the Sonus ultra-fine or some other brand ? I'm assuming you use no pressure at all on the bar (beside the weight of your hand) and let it glide or do you apply a little pressure ?
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These days I only use Sonus clays and I almost always try the green one first. I try to use no pressure and that's what I always recommend people do, but to be honest I will sometimes put a bit of pressure on it. Just "not too much" and what exactly that means I can't explain :o Sometimes you have to press a little bit or nothing happens but try to keep a feeling of "there's lube between my clay and the panel". The green with a *little* pressure seems to still be milder than the gray with *no* pressure.



It would be pretty hard to exaggerate how mild the green clay is when you use plenty of the Glyde lube (and I use this clay *only* with the matching lube). There are plenty of situations where I use the gray stuff instead because the green won't do it, and even then I don't strip off my LSP. If anything, the green might be too mild for a lot of people, even for the intended application.



If you have to press much with the gray (regular) clay, then you might want to put a quick coat of LSP on the area just in case you did abrade/compromise it.



Yeah, yeah, "don't press at all!" I say it too, but in the real world that's not too feasible....
 
Accumulator said:
It took a lot of claying to get through *any* of the LSPs I tested with. Even Meg's #5 took a bit of doing to cut through!
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:confused: What do you think the #5 left on there that you were cutting through?
 
Setec- Heh heh, that's a good question and I don't have a good answer! :D Must be the trade secret oils or whatever the "paintable", "body shop safe" stuff is. #5 definitely leaves *something* behind as you can readily tell when fresh paint has been treated with it. #5 can even last through a rainstorm or two, even if it won't last through a wash. It not only looks shiny and feels somewhat slick, it beads differently from untreated fresh paint.



In this case, I had two little specs of tar (?) behind the L rear wheel on the MPV's repainted rear bumper cover. I went over one of these specs with #5 while treating the bumper cover and didn't go over the other. Then I compared claying away the two specs. The uncovered one came right off with one/two passes. The one with #5 on it took a few strokes before the clay "hit tar" and I assume it was gliding over the #5, gradually abrading it away until it got to the tar spec, which then came off with one/two passes just like the uncovered one.
 
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