Sonax Polymer vs Carnuba Waxes(single stg paint)

Without knowing your process, it is difficult to help you..
Are you keeping the (which pads?) clean between each set of passes? How are you doing that ?
How many pads of each color are you using ?
Were those few scratches already in the paint, before you started ?
Perhaps you have not gotten down to them yet ?
Keeping the work just a little moist during the correction process? How are you doing that ?
What speed/s are you using start to finish of each set of passes on the spot on the panel ?
How much downward pressure are you putting on the work through the process ?
Dan F
 
Well this was a frustrating last hour! It might be a pad issue seeing as I don’t have a lot of them. I’m using the blue ones with the 2500 menzerna and the red finishing pad on the 3500.

I work the compound on speed 1 on the makita rotary and don’t apply any pressure on the machine.

After each pass- I grab a towel and rub them into the pad to clean off the residue.


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Striker said:
Well this was a frustrating last hour! It might be a pad issue seeing as I don’t have a lot of them. I’m using the blue ones with the 2500 menzerna and the red finishing pad on the 3500.

I work the compound on speed 1 on the makita rotary and don’t apply any pressure on the machine.

After each pass- I grab a towel and rub them into the pad to clean off the residue.


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Striker,
I average 6 pads of each type (correcting, finishing if needed) at the minimum. Sometimes more, sometimes less..
When the Hydro-Shreds start goofing up the work, I change them out.. A clean pad will always improve the work performance.
They are made to absorb less product, moisture, and keep it on the working surface longer

I clean all of them by hand using Lake Country Snappy Clean, and I never have any issues with this product, or problems with the pads in 15 years.

I like to get everyone acquainted with Speed-1 on my Makita, and after a bit, turn it up to Speed-2 = 900 rpm..
Always press down on the work, with good lights, looking at it, and adjusting as needed to correct that spot.
The 10lb Makita has never been enough for me to get what I want, so I keep the pad flat, and press down a little and that helps things go faster and get better results at the correction stage and if needed, the polishing stage..

I can work these Hydro-Shreds long enough to be able to do the work, then polish, then clean up almost all the residue, so there is always very little to wipe off and risk scratching the work on that spot on the panel..

Have to look at the pad faces each time before you put in on the paint, and also the nice, clean, microfibers, to make sure you don`t introduce something that is not wanted on the paintwork..

I get the best all-around control of the Makita using the 9:00 o`clock side handle. To me, it gives me pretty even - leverage - to keep the machine doing what I want it to do, and the best balance for my needs..
I leave the small metal spacer on it and never take it off, so I can easily switch to a smaller backing plate/pad combo for those little things.
And having the machine farther away allows me to see everything better - nothing is hidden from view because of the size of the machine..

If this was in my Shop, I would measure the spot in microns, and decide if it was going to be ok to try to work that stuff out or not.. From the pic, as far as I can tell, its just defects however they got there, in the paint.. But I would always measure that total thickness before, and during the work.. I strive to never remove more than half a micron..

From the Lake Country Website, regarding their Hydro-Tech pads --
""Closed cell pre-polymer foam
Closed cell foams reduce polish absorption into the pad keeping polish on the working surface for optimum performance of both pad and polish. High strength, tear resistant foam.

Benefits:
Color: Cyan – Heavy polishing foam designed for compounding and swirl removal. Used to restore oxidized and heavily swirled paint.
Color: Tangerine – Light polishing foam for light to moderate defect removal and polishing. Slightly less aggressive than our Orange foam.
Color: Crimson – Ultra finishing soft foam designed for applying waxes, glazes and sealants.""
DanF
 
I’ve given up attempting to remove the scratches in the above pics. Paint all around them is immaculate, more or less.

Which colour pad with what product would you use, what speeds and how big of a surface area do you fix per pass?


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Striker said:
I’ve given up attempting to remove the scratches in the above pics. Paint all around them is immaculate, more or less.

Which colour pad with what product would you use, what speeds and how big of a surface area do you fix per pass?


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Striker -
You are doing an outstanding job of getting clarity and gloss out of that paintwork!

If I was doing that panel, I would always use the L/C Hydro-Tech Cyan (Blue) 5/1/2" pad on a 5" backing plate..
For just that little area, I might go to the 4" size parts, just to not disturb all the area around it..

I would moisten the pad just enough, and work the product into the area on Speed-1, then 2, with downward pressure, then back off the pressure, and finish polishing, and allow the pad to clean up what very little is always left on the paintwork..
This is another reason why you need a lot of pads, because I make them clean up the panel, so they get dirtier faster..
But the results I get are always stellar..

Make sure you are not heating up the panel too much; that never really helps in my experiences.. A little heat will always be there because you are using Rotary Power, you just have to be aware of it and manage it, ok ?

If you have the Tangerine (orange) Hydto-Tech pads, you could experiment with that combo as well..

I use C/Guys Pad Conditioner to prime the pad and keep everything just moist enough so I get a longer working time, and there is no danger of micromarring the work which seems to come from scraping dry or drying product across the paintwork..
Another advantage of keeping it moist is that I never, ever, blow - compound, polish, etc., - dust - everywhere and then have to clean that all up..

You are and have been doing a great job !

That Black Mustang will be a rolling Black Mirror, going down the street !
Dan F
 
So I’m in the garage as we speak- and it appears that a 3 step seems to be getting me the results.

Albeit a lot more aggressive then I thought I’d need-

- Tangerine w/Menz 2500
-Cyan w/Menz 3000
-Cyan w/Menz 3500

I’m gonna see if I can skip the middle


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Striker -
Wow ! Amazing clarity and gloss !!
I have a set of halogens like that but mostly use my big Scangrip LED`s now..
The Halogens will always be there, because sometimes, you need that level of light to pick up things that the brighter lights wash out, etc..
You did it !! Great job !!!
Dan F
 
Sorta.

Just disappointed I can’t figure this out to work with two steps :(


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I haven`t used my rotaries since forever, and I`ve never used them with Menzerna, but speeds 1-2 sound awfully low to me for anything but finishing out.
 
One thing with Menzerna is that you need to be working through it so it breaks down properly. With lower speed setting you can need to be doing a couple of passes more per sections or a really low armspeed. Otherwise the step to the finishing polish can be too large. In a perfect way you almost polish the medium polishes and compounds until they are clear and also just until they dries out. This that is left is almost nothing if you have the right amount of polish on the pad. Know this take some time to get used to. But if you don`t see it goes clear after 3-4 passes you can reload with one less drop of polish on the next section. If it goes clear too soon as after 1-2 passes you either have a to high of speed on the polisher or armspeed or too little of product on the pad. Cause if you overwork the polish your pad and residue creates more work for the next step. The cutting part is not so much of impact on. As long as you don`t goes over to the extreme in either case. So take a look at how the polish is behaving and you can often see the tell to what to adjust if necessary.

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Then perhaps I’m using way too much product on each pass because I have to grab a towel and clean the residue off!

My arm speed is low- I’d say real low. As to how many passes- I probably do 5-6 slow passes per section.

With slow arm speed


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SWETM- Heh heh, those "how-to" things that you gotta get right are part of why I`m not a Menzerna fan. And you`re absolutely right about the need to break their stuff down; that was, IMO, a factor in how/why the [individual] ruined my Jag with 3500 via rotary.
 
Again, the key that has always worked for a lot of different products from even 50 years ago is to keep the pad and product moist enough to let you work long enough to break everything down..
Putting on a bunch of product in lieu of adding a little moisture, and blasting all down at high speeds to drying on the pad and paint is just to me, a disaster and all that powder is now gone into every crevice around the work..

Yes, back 50 years ago, the process was to use higher speeds than what I use today, and that was because all of us working in Shops had to absolutely turn out a bunch of vehicles every week..
But it was never the ideal in my opinion, and after getting out of that trade, and doing things in my garage/shop, I figured out a process where slower speeds with downward pressure, - especially with Menzerna on German paint, worked great..

It was slower, yes, but learning how to make the pad do all the work in its ability, and using just enough moisture, made for less steps afterwards.. These were the days of diminishing abrasive products, and later even with those non-diminishing products.. But in the end because I could do it all in perhaps no more than 2 steps, sometimes with 1 step, I actually spent less time, less product, less pads, getting the clarity and gloss at the highest level for the price point..

I studied Menzerna a long time, and decided that if anyone would go to the trouble to actually - mill - their own abrasives on site, and not just purchase them as everyone else did, they must be on to something here..
And all their work with Mercedes to allow the infamous Ceramic-Clear Black paintwork to be perfectly cleared of defects, told me these guys are not just out to make a quick buck, but must be committed to doing long term..

I use Menzerna for everything, every vehicle`s paintwork, and have been able to make it work just fine..
And the same goes for Meguiar`s M105/102/205 with even Lake Country Purple Foam Wool.

The key to unlocking the real potential of all these products will always be for me, keeping it all just moist enough to do the work, polish it, and clean it all up with the pad.. And yes, with slower speeds and downward pressure, this can be done with Rotary Power all day long.. :)
Dan F
 
Well I just put my small collection of pads for a clean and waiting for them to dry.

Dan when you say keep it moist- are you suggesting just a couple of shots of water on the pad ?


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Accumulator said:
SWETM- Heh heh, those "how-to" things that you gotta get right are part of why I`m not a Menzerna fan. And you`re absolutely right about the need to break their stuff down; that was, IMO, a factor in how/why the [individual] ruined my Jag with 3500 via rotary.
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Mi Hermano !
I am so sorry to hear what happened to your Jaguar..
Believe the problem was the "individual" was not experienced enough.
I personally don`t know how anyone can damage paint with a product (Menzerna 3500) that has a Cut of 3 and a Gloss of 10, unless they are totally inexperienced with the process..
Dan F
 
Striker said:
Well I just put my small collection of pads for a clean and waiting for them to dry.

Dan when you say keep it moist- are you suggesting just a couple of shots of water on the pad ?


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Striker,
In my experience, pads take around 24 hours or more to be dry depending on the ambient temp in the garage, etc.., unless they are very thin..
The first design Hydro-Techs were thick compared to the thinner model they sell today because they want to capture all those using random orbitals..
Forget about Rotary people, yeah, that`s it.. :)

Yes, a little water in spray bottle to wet the entire pad, then go over the pad with your finger to make sure it`s even all the way around is what I do...
Then, put a little product on the pad, spread it all the way around.. Using it with this extra moisture also means you need less product..
Once you get this down for that paint, it will be just fine..

I started using Chemical Guys Pad Conditioner years ago because it was inexpensive and regardless of what it really is, it worked just fine and did not do anything bad to the pad, the product or the paintwork.. Autopia or Geek does not sell it.. It should be available at the C/G nutty website if you want to get some, someday..

The process is to allow the products, pad, paint to have a nicer day getting acquainted, and then the pad polishes with less or no downward pressure, and you have a beautiful spot with hardly any wipe up, and move to the next spot..
Dan F
 
So you’re saying wait the full 24 hours before attempting to use the pads?

One thing I noticed once I finish with my cyan+Menz 3500 is the finish looks flawless. Until I give the label an ISO wipe down and the tiny little imperfections come to surface!

I guess 3500 definitely has some fillers in it


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