SOLD the Porter Cable and

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Ocean-Side M5

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Bought one of T:scared h:scared e:scared s:scared e Of course, I bought it somewhere else where I paid only $ 168.00



I took the M5 below as far as it would go with the P C Random Orbital Now it's time to use what the Pro's use. I have been doing research at Autopia.com and hope to get the deep mirror-like concourse shine I'm a seekin Below are results with the PC. In 2 weeks I will post pics of New Shine
 
Might want to also go grab a body panel from a junk yard to practice on.



I have found the rotary is the only way to get rid of spiderweb swirls.



725-1008-33505.jpg
 
I strongly suggest you practice for a very long time before you polish your car, especially since it's black. Make the wrong move with a rotary and you will create damage that can't be fixed.



With a black vehicle and a rotary you need to be using proper speed, product/pad combo, proper angles, etc or you will not like the swirled mess that it will produce.
 
Show, Al, Intel Thanks a buncha for the tips and suggestions.:xyxthumbs i am grateful that you chimed in and sent over the reading material. I too have done some research, but have come to the realization that I must practice before tackling the BMW. I will go the the parts place and grab a hood to practice on. I will post pics of hood before and after. :shocked
 
I'll probably have a lot of people 'go against' what I'm about to say, but....



I've found that with the proper technique and products, the PC can do about 95% of what a rotary can do. The problem that I encounter most often with people who use a PC and expect miracles is that they aren't patient enough.



For example, a friend of mine borrowed one of my PC's (still has it, actually) and he called to report that the thing was "junk" - didn't remove anything. I went over to watch him use it and quickly realized the problem: he'd work a panel for about 1 minute, then buff it off and say, "See? It didn't do anything!"



If you're in a hurry, a rotary will usually make your life more miserable because as SRL has indicated, it can cause irrepairable damage. Don't get me wrong - I like rotary's and they're wonderful tools, but 9 times out of 10 they bite more than they help... :)



So, as others have suggested, use extreme caution, keep the speeds low, practice on some junk panels and be sure to share the outcome/results with us!
 
geekysteve said:
I'll probably have a lot of people 'go against' what I'm about to say, but....



I've found that with the proper technique and products, the PC can do about 95% of what a rotary can do. The problem that I encounter most often with people who use a PC and expect miracles is that they aren't patient enough.



For example, a friend of mine borrowed one of my PC's (still has it, actually) and he called to report that the thing was "junk" - didn't remove anything. I went over to watch him use it and quickly realized the problem: he'd work a panel for about 1 minute, then buff it off and say, "See? It didn't do anything!"



If you're in a hurry, a rotary will usually make your life more miserable because as SRL has indicated, it can cause irrepairable damage. Don't get me wrong - I like rotary's and they're wonderful tools, but 9 times out of 10 they bite more than they help... :)



So, as others have suggested, use extreme caution, keep the speeds low, practice on some junk panels and be sure to share the outcome/results with us!
Click to expand...



yhea, but after you learn how to use a rotary they are like 10x faster than trying to use a DA buffer to do the work.



Sure a DA can do similar work that a rotary can do but it woul take a long time.



I say for working on real pigs like I see you need a rotary. If you regularly take care of your car, then I think you could have probably stuck w/ the PC.
 
geekysteve said:
I'll probably have a lot of people 'go against' what I'm about to say, but....



I've found that with the proper technique and products, the PC can do about 95% of what a rotary can do. The problem that I encounter most often with people who use a PC and expect miracles is that they aren't patient enough.



For example, a friend of mine borrowed one of my PC's (still has it, actually) and he called to report that the thing was "junk" - didn't remove anything. I went over to watch him use it and quickly realized the problem: he'd work a panel for about 1 minute, then buff it off and say, "See? It didn't do anything!"



If you're in a hurry, a rotary will usually make your life more miserable because as SRL has indicated, it can cause irrepairable damage. Don't get me wrong - I like rotary's and they're wonderful tools, but 9 times out of 10 they bite more than they help... :)



So, as others have suggested, use extreme caution, keep the speeds low, practice on some junk panels and be sure to share the outcome/results with us!
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting this Steve. This is also what I understand about the nature of the random orbital PC vs. a rotary. There seems to be quite a large gap between the performance of even the PC compared to a rotary. Problems that can take hours by PC take only a fraction of the time by rotary because of the huge amount of heat it builds. It still takes a while to work products with the PC (take carguy's FI II job for example!) but you still get better results faster than if you worked it by hand (unless you're Scottwax of course :p). With all the praise a lot of people give to the PC there is the risk that people will expect too much of it, as your friend did.



Disclaimer: I don't speak from direct experience, but it's something prospective PC buyers may have read about and should be aware of.



EDIT: still typin' slowwww.... :p
 
I completely agree - in professional applications, with experienced users, the rotary is second to none. But, I've seen too many new users damage their cars with rotary's; and, I've seen too many bodyshops and detail shops introduce newer, more severe swirls with their rotary's.



When guys like NYD, Intel, SRL, BretFraz, etc. use rotary's, I don't doubt for a second that the work is impeccible. My fear, though, is that folks see those pics and think, "Wow! I need a rotary! Surely my PC can't do anywhere near that level of quality!"



But then I see the pics from Brad B., CarGuy, etc., and then people say, "Wow! I need a PC! Surely I can't do hand work anywhere near that level of quality!"



And then comes Scottwax and that's when the arguments for PC's and Rotary's become somewhat moot.



The main point that I'm trying to make is two-fold: rotary's are not as dangerous as they once were, especially if you're using slower speeds and foam pads, but, conversely, PC's are a heckuva lot safer and *can* do nearly as much as the rotary with a much larger safety margin. But to think that a rotary is the magic bullet for any unfamiliar detailer is an often deadly mistake, and that's what I try so hard to prevent from happening. :)



{edit}

This was done with a PC (and was previously swirled):



saab_side.jpg




{/edit}
 
geekysteve said:
When guys like NYD, Intel, SRL, BretFraz, etc. use rotary's, I don't doubt for a second that the work is impeccible. My fear, though, is that folks see those pics and think, "Wow! I need a rotary! Surely my PC can't do anywhere near that level of quality!"



But then I see the pics from Brad B., CarGuy, etc., and then people say, "Wow! I need a PC! Surely I can't do hand work anywhere near that level of quality!"



And then comes Scottwax and that's when the arguments for PC's and Rotary's become somewhat moot.
Click to expand...



LOL Good point



Rain really sucks for my biz...
 
geekysteve said:
I completely agree - in professional applications, with experienced users, the rotary is second to none. But, I've seen too many new users damage their cars with rotary's; and, I've seen too many bodyshops and detail shops introduce newer, more severe swirls with their rotary's.



When guys like NYD, Intel, SRL, BretFraz, etc. use rotary's, I don't doubt for a second that the work is impeccible. My fear, though, is that folks see those pics and think, "Wow! I need a rotary! Surely my PC can't do anywhere near that level of quality!"



But then I see the pics from Brad B., CarGuy, etc., and then people say, "Wow! I need a PC! Surely I can't do hand work anywhere near that level of quality!"



And then comes Scottwax and that's when the arguments for PC's and Rotary's become somewhat moot.



The main point that I'm trying to make is two-fold: rotary's are not as dangerous as they once were, especially if you're using slower speeds and foam pads, but, conversely, PC's are a heckuva lot safer and *can* do nearly as much as the rotary with a much larger safety margin. But to think that a rotary is the magic bullet for any unfamiliar detailer is an often deadly mistake, and that's what I try so hard to prevent from happening. :)



{edit}

This was done with a PC (and was previously swirled):



saab_side.jpg




{/edit}
Click to expand...



Is that a door ding I see about an inch (relative to the reflection) behind the GTI :D :D :D
 
geekysteve said:


This was done with a PC (and was previously swirled):
Click to expand...



Also, I'm not doubting it was swirled and the swirls were removed but at that angle and lighting you couldn't see swirls if the surface was covered with them.
 
Yup, it's a green Saab 9-5. "Eagle Eye" BW wins. :D :cool:



There are actually two dings in that door, courtesy of the idiot parkers at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport. :rolleyes: :mad:



Swirls galore all over the car as I had not detailed it all summer. Thanks to Steve for PCing them out with DACP and GEPC. Three coats of Z5 and you get beautiful results like that.
 
IMO......A rotary is not really a weekend detailing tool the way a PC is. The polishes and tool itself are agressive and tend to eat up a good deal of paint. A rotary is mostly mean to knock down and level an uneven or damaged finish. Lots of pros use it to get the paint perfect and then turn to the old PC or hand to lay down the finish wax or polish. If you plan on using it as part of the weekly or even monthly detail I'd suggest against it. Also, in my opinion if you are planning on using the detailing favorites mentioned here Klasse, Zaino, Gold Class, blitz, etc.. etc.. instead of the rotary specific chemicals your results will be less than you expect. there is no beneift from using them with a rotary. I havent used my rotary on my rides in 2 years, theres no need to.
 
Great thread and good reality check. I think it is fair to say that tools alone don't make a good detailer any more than a great camera makes someone a great photographer. Success comes from learning, seeing, knowing, experiencing....
 
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