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dougn

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well i'm happy to have found this site.



i've been experimenting with trying to remove fine (can't feel them) scratches from a late model black porsche. it's a long story and i'm totally new to this but this is where i'm at.



using 3M foam pad glaze for dark colors and the recommended 3M foam pad and a hitachi buffer at 1900 rpm.



i follow the directions and use what i would consider med then lite pressure and i can remove the scratches...



i experimented with the amount of glaze and i'm at the point where i put about a dime sized spot on a saturated rag and wipe it on about a 1 ft square section. most of the glaze will polish off but some spots just seem to harden and i have to use the glazed rag to re work these spots and polish them off.



the resulting finish has visble marks that can be seen in the right lite...bright sun or a halogen flood. i don't want to call them swirl marks...i don't know what to call them.
 
Welcome to the Forum.



Glazes tend not to remove swirls but fill them in with oils and fillers. Most do not have much for abrasives.



I suggest you do a search on swirls and black cars and read a few threads. You may also want to read the e-book as it has lots of tips on using abrasive products.



Good Luck.
 
Are you working the product in? The more you rub the polish in the better it works. Don't over do it but make sure you working it in. If your going to use a machine use LIGHT pressure, espically with your machine and work the product in to the point where it starts to haze as you pass over it.
 
yup it's perfect it foam polishing pad glaze swirl mark remover. it's definately removing the scratches. the problem is I'm leaving very subtle marks but i'm not sure i would classify them as swirl marks.



in the threads I've read i don't hear anyone talking about foam pads. does anyone use them with the 3M glazes? are there other alternatives?
 
Yes, I used only foam pads on my Porter Cable buffer, it's alot easier to treat an entire care and remove more swirls.



I beleive what your referring to is a "haze". There's quite a few post's about this. I have never had this problem so I couldn't tell you.
 
i just noticed you guys refer to a PC which is an orbital buffer. my hitachi has just a circular motion. i wonder if that could make much difference. the 3M directions don't mention anything about using an orbital buffer
 
thanks joed

i'm working the product in but i may not be using enough. i have reduced the amount in order to eliminate flinging. i'm not getting haze. i've had it once using a wax type buffer.



what i'm getting reflects prism colors in bright sunlight and the pattern changes with viewing angle. you might call them swirl marks but they don't look like swirl marks i've seen before
 
Be careful with the rotary if new to using one. You can burn through the clear pretty quickly.



It seems you did not let the abrasives breaqk down enough and you have HAZING. DO a search for carguy and a thread he either started or posted in on using SMR products. Heck I think he put a link in another thread either this AM or last night.



Good Luck.
 
You have a 3D looking effect?



That maybe from bad rotary technique.



Look for a thread about a BMW hood on here somewhere. It has a good picture of what a dealer did to a brand new car with a rotary. I forget the member in question but there was plenty of discussion on to get rid of them and he did and posted some after pics.



I believe he used a PC with SMR type product.



HTH
 
The Porter Cable rubs the polish or whatever your using into the car in a random circular motion. A polisher like the one you are talking about runs only in a round motion, it builds up heat very quickly and can create massive damage as fast as it can repair a massive problem.



Most of us would agree to use the Porter Cable on the everyday car and the Polisher on the touch jobs. If you only have a polisher it's fine, just make sure you operate it with a little extra caution.



:cool:
 
i apply the glaze and run the polisher over a given area with two or three passes and it's pretty much gone. i wonder if i get off sooner it would help because sometimes i let the foam pad friction get pretty high...you can feel it even when you use very lite pressure. i wonder if that's what leaves the marks?
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

using 3M foam pad glaze for dark colors and the recommended 3M foam pad and a hitachi buffer at 1900 rpm.</blockquote>

Woah!!! 1900 RPM is a little high for using a rotary and a foam pad, especially on a black car. You can build up a ton of heat at that RPM, the maximum heat you should generate on modern clearcoats is 115 degrees. At almost 2000 RPM and a foam pad you can easily generate heat of 120 degrees + Try to keep the RPM's around 1200-1500 to stay on the safe side. :up

And never, and I mean NEVER, let a pad run dry on a rotary, you will get into serious trouble in a hurry.

Also don't apply any added pressure when using a rotary, let the machine operate under its' own weight.
 
Depends. But the heat from a rotary is a different kind of heat. With a rotary the type of heat we are talking about it generated from the friction of the pad spinning over the same point on the panel. With this type of heat the clearcoat actually softens up, which is why it's easier to remove major marks with a rotary. Orbitals simply do not generate this kind of heat, that's why they can't tackle tough jobs. But back to the point. The higher the RPM of the rotary (and what type of pad you are using), the higher the surface temp you create. The higher the temp the softer the clear gets and you will remove more clear with each pass, and you can get into real trouble really quick. For this reason you want temp to be held lower so you don't remove to much clear. Lower Temp=Lower RPM.



The best thing you can remember with a rotary is keep the pad "flat" and faster is not better. :up
 
I agree with Showroom 100%. As a long time rotary user technique is everything. Not only will heat remove to much clear coat, but the faster the temperature of the paint raises and the more elastic or soft it becomes. The scratch or imperfection the operator is attempting to remove proceeds to actually move deeper into the paint film as the heat increases.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Guess My Name [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>You have a 3D looking effect?

That maybe from bad rotary technique.

Look for a thread about a BMW hood on here somewhere. It has a good picture of what a dealer did to a brand new car with a rotary. I forget the member in question but there was plenty of discussion on to get rid of them and he did and posted some after pics.

I believe he used a PC with SMR type product.

HTH [/b]</blockquote>
GMN, are you talking about debaser330ci's post?

This is the link to his thread.

Look at my car now! By Debaser330ci

Dougn,
In order to truly remove surface imperfections as opposed to just filling them in, I found the following technique posted by someone that has over 20 years experience using rotaries:

<em class='bbc'>Take a rotary, lambs wool pad, at 1200 rpm, keep it fairly flat to the surface and a mild polish, doesn't make to much difference which kind, just a clearcoat polish and work them out. [/i]

<em class='bbc'>Then switch to a fine foam polishing pad and the same material and do it again. [/i]

<em class='bbc'>You will not remove enough additional clear to cause concerns. [/i]

<em class='bbc'>Then take time with the polish and a PC and foam for one more working of the clear. [/i]

<em class='bbc'>Clean it off with IPA and check it, if looks good , seal it up with a high-quality polymer sealant.[/i]

If your scratches are very light, you might be able to skip the lambs wool pad step. However, the point I'm trying to make here is that (Showroom or Andre, correct me if I'm wrong) after using the Makita, you may very well have some fine visible marks left over which would require further polishing using the same polish with a DA machine.
 
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