Sio2 over polymer-based sealant

F

FrankR

New member
Preface: I put CarPro Elixir over the existing (3-months and going strong) Fast Finish base the other day, looks great (hasn`t rained yet, so don`t know about beading).

So, as you can see from the above, I did the unthinkable. In many forums, I`ve read implicit and explicit advice that Sio2 products go on coatings only; put polymer products on polymer (that is, I should have put Beadmaker over FF, not EliXir). But I`ve never seen it explained why. My google-fu is merely yellow sash level, but have not found an explanation, just the advice, repeated in many threads, that Sio2 products should go on coatings only. I couldn`t find any explanation as to the science (e.g., the Sio2 will eat through the polymer, the Sio2 won`t bond to the FastFinish so will just wash off first rain, etc). I couldn`t even find any bad anecdotal stories. I only know one anecdote: I put EliXir on Fast Finish and it looks great, although we`re only 3 days in.

I`d appreciate any pointers, links to threads, first-hand anecdotes, or scientific or informal explanations as to why I might have made a terrible mistake (if in fact, I did). Very much appreciate any help!

Frank
 
I think you are safe. As far as I know all SiO2 infused QDs have polymers in them. The SiO2 is supposed to increase hardness and gloss. Most SiO2 containing products have only around 5% SiO2 in them.
 
Ive put ceramic sprays over Duragloss, Klasse, and another cleaner sealant that I dont remember the name, and Ive had NO problem at all.
 
I’ve got a different version of elixir on my wifes. It is
2oz HydrO2
2oz EchO2
2 oz Reload
26oz water.

That is on top of 2 week old Blackfire Sio2 spray sealant that is on top of maybe 4-6 week old UFF and I’ve had no issues.

If you applied a wax yesterday and then tried to put elixir on I could see it being an issue with potential binding but if it’s seen a wash or 2 I can’t see the harm.

You may not get the max life out of it but most of us here apply LSP a lot more often so is it really a big concern?


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If you expect lots of beading, you are not going to be pleased
These new "spray on" ceramics, be in Mequiar`s, Mothers, Adams, etc, etc create a strong protective, gloss/shine and most important, they "sheet" the water off.
Beading only creates the opportunity for "water spots", depending on the dust or such on the surface or mineral content of the water/rain.
 
Wax or any beading product, may contribute to acid etching if there is additional moisture and "heat".

To understand the simple science of why beads may create damage, consider two known facts.
1. The "fracture point" of the wax/sealant- IE when it is soften and starts to evaporate from the surface. The "bead" works the same as how a magnifying glass works. Ever use one to burn up an ant or such? How quickly the heat is magnified at the focal point of the direction of the glass
2.What is the amount of dust, pollen, minerals, acids in the water that creates the "bead", and important is to understand how raising the "heat" is increasing the "reactivity" of any chemicals in the water bead.
3.Proof is in front of you, summer, warm months, water spotting is a concern, yet in cold winter months, any "water spotting" washes right off.
4.Heat reactivity is why the box of laundry detergent has "water temp" directions on the container. Want "whiter t-shirts", etc wash in hot water, but the increase in the heat reactivity will shorten the fabric`s usable life.
5.Under right conditions, the paint film may reach, at the bottom of the bead over 300F until it evaporates the bead. Waxes and most of the common sealants have given up before that temp.
 
I’m really glad that’s not a huge concern where I live now but where I used to live I used to see lasting damage from acid rain fallout
 
minerigger said:
I’ve got a different version of elixir on my wifes. It is
2oz HydrO2
2oz EchO2
2 oz Reload
Click to expand...

Isn`t Hydro2 supposed to be rinsed off, the other 2 wiped off? Which do you do?

You may not get the max life out of it but most of us here apply LSP a lot more often so is it really a big concern?
Click to expand...

Definitely no ````s given
 
Ron Ketcham said:
If you expect lots of beading, you are not going to be pleased
These new "spray on" ceramics, be in Mequiar`s, Mothers, Adams, etc, etc create a strong protective, gloss/shine and most important, they "sheet" the water off.
Beading only creates the opportunity for "water spots", depending on the dust or such on the surface or mineral content of the water/rain.
Click to expand...

HOnestly, in the end I just wanted to see what all the fuss was about, starting with all the glossiness (which I can confirm that part). But, I do expect beading -- I saw this direct comparison of Beadmaker and EliXir, and the water properties seem nearly identical, with perhaps a little more sheeting on the Elixir side? Either way, I`m fine with how it turns out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7i0g5im-0c But will keep an eye out thanks for your response
 
FrankR said:
Isn`t Hydro2 supposed to be rinsed off, the other 2 wiped off? Which do you do?



Definitely no ````s given
Click to expand...

I use it just like you would Ech2o and reload or elixir. I spray on and then buff in and use a 2nd towel to buff to a streak free shine. Worked good.m, at least at 40-45* in my garage. I need to do my work truck like this.

I have 10 min paint sealant in it currently.

Want to test Elixir vs Ech2o/Reload vs Ech2o/Reload/HydrO2

Compare gloss, ease of use, protection yada yada.

But it’s cold out and I’m unmotivated right now due to that but the wifes came out great with the 3 combinedIMG_0134.jpgIMG_0135.jpgIMG_0136.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
FrankR said:
Preface: I put CarPro Elixir over the existing (3-months and going strong) Fast Finish base the other day, looks great (hasn`t rained yet, so don`t know about beading).

So, as you can see from the above, I did the unthinkable. In many forums, I`ve read implicit and explicit advice that Sio2 products go on coatings only; put polymer products on polymer (that is, I should have put Beadmaker over FF, not EliXir). But I`ve never seen it explained why. My google-fu is merely yellow sash level, but have not found an explanation, just the advice, repeated in many threads, that Sio2 products should go on coatings only. I couldn`t find any explanation as to the science (e.g., the Sio2 will eat through the polymer, the Sio2 won`t bond to the FastFinish so will just wash off first rain, etc). I couldn`t even find any bad anecdotal stories. I only know one anecdote: I put EliXir on Fast Finish and it looks great, although we`re only 3 days in.

I`d appreciate any pointers, links to threads, first-hand anecdotes, or scientific or informal explanations as to why I might have made a terrible mistake (if in fact, I did). Very much appreciate any help!

Frank
Click to expand...

As stated above most sio2 sealants have less than 10% sio2. Elixir could be 1-2%. I think ultimately has to due with durability. Elixir would last a week were as UFF would last 3 mo. No problems. You would not want to coat with say cancoat which can be 6-12 mo durability as the base under it would deteriorate thus leading to coating deterioration. Not a scientist nor a Detailer just basing it of off things I have read in the past. Hey someone coat something with something quick!


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That makes perfect sense. I actually get 6 months easy with UFF, and probably longer -- I strip it off every 6 months and re-apply, so don`t know how long it could go. No sense putting a full blown coating on top of UFF. But an SIO2-based topper? Unless it`s going to just run right off for something -- which it hasn`t, from what I can tell -- it doesn`t seem like a terrible mistake
 
FrankR said:
That makes perfect sense. I actually get 6 months easy with UFF, and probably longer -- I strip it off every 6 months and re-apply, so don`t know how long it could go. No sense putting a full blown coating on top of UFF. But an SIO2-based topper? Unless it`s going to just run right off for something -- which it hasn`t, from what I can tell -- it doesn`t seem like a terrible mistake
Click to expand...

You are fine. I have done numerous rinseless washes with Ech2o on Sonax PNS, with no I`ll side effects.
 
I don`t think a ceramic would last as long over a wax type of product. Over a true polymer product it probably would work fine.
 
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