Silicone Free Car Wax?

Drummer1

New member
Hello,

My question: Is it ok to use wax that contains silicone? I am only asking because I recently got an estimate to have my hood and roof paint redone and the paint and body shop advised me to use silicone free wax only. He said that the silicone attracts the UV Rays and therefore damages the paint. What waxes on the market don't contain silicone if his statement is true. :rolleyes1:

Thanks,

Dennis
 
He is full of it!

Silicone oils or fluids have been used for years to create water repellant surfaces, are anti-corossive,and ease application of waxes or such.

These silicone oils are a problem for bodyshops as they are very migratory and evaporative, and if not totally removed before a bodyshop attempts sanding and repainting a condition known as "fisheyes" will be created in the applied paints.

The use of "siloxane" resins, a member of the silicone family (to keep it simple) are not migratory, nor highly evaporative, as a result some of these, such as aminofunctional's, polyaminosiloxanes are found in the composistion of todays automotive paint systems.

Most of todays quality waxes and sealants no longer use the old silicone oils, which are less expensive than siloxanes, however the grade of them chosen may affect long term protection and evaporation rates.

As far as his statement that they attact UV rays, it is the opposite, as they produce a "gloss" or shine, which "reflects" the UV rays from the surface, which reduces their opportunity to penetrate into the vehicle's paint film build and attack the film formers/binders of the paint film.

A siloxane resin will provide the same gloss/shine, but since it is not as evaporative and can withstand higher temperatures than a silicone, they provide improved protection.

The industry refers to these siloxanes as amino functional resins.

I would suggest that your bodyshop spend a little time doing some real research, talk to I-CAR, etc before passing out such mis-information.

By the way, among my many abilities, I painted my first vehicle back in the 50's and still paint vehicles and such today, plus before I retired, worked on a daily basis with Ford, GM and Chrysler's body and paint tech centers, as well as paint engineers for PPG, DuPont, BASF and Sherwin-Williams, worked with I-CAR on various paint and corossion concerns, etc as Director of Sales and Technical Services for Automotive International, Inc.

Grumpy
 
Ron,

Thanks for the feedback and the information on siloxanes. I had a feeling that he was steering me wrong. Since you have many years of experience and knowledge with auto paints have you used or are you familiar with De Beer who is owned by Valspar? I got another estimate from a different paint shop that uses this brand of paint.

Thanks
 
Drummer1 said:
He said that the silicone attracts the UV Rays and therefore damages the paint.



I'm going to start selling silicone to the solar panel industry!!!
 
Ron dropping truth bombs again!



yes.gif
 
Just wanted to chime in here.



Polydimethlysiloxane, otherwise known as PDMS, otherwise known as dimethicone, otherwise known as silicone oil. Silicone oils are siloxanes and remain heavily used in automotive polishes, sealants and waxes. Yes, there are more expensive silicone resins and aminofunctional silicones but these often serve different functions to the basic PDMS in a formulation so both are often incorporated. The discussion of 'evaporative' has me somewhat confused because the PDMS typically used will be non-volatile which would mean it is 'non-evaporative'. I would expect volatile silicones may present somewhat less of a problem for painters because they evaporate and do not persist on a surface - in a moderately warm environment, they will evaporate away just the same way as IPA or panel wipes. Whilst on the topic of painting, most modern paints should contain adequate levels of wetting agents to overcome the problems formerly known to result from silicone contamination - this is of high priority when formulating paint products.



Finally, UV. Silicones, as a rule, are quite transmissive, even in the UV. The apparent gloss or shine is a visible artifact, not UV. Unless a silicone has been specifically modified to block UV, one should assume it to have negligible effect. Most of the time, when someone discussed UV and a silicone, it is the stability of the silicone under UV, not its transmission, which they will be discussing. Most certainly silicones will not make the problems worse.



All the best
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Pretty much on target, however due to the audience, I chose to keep it a bit more simple.





It’s often a difficult balance to achieve when providing technical information; it shouldn’t be too simplistic as to insult the readers intelligence and not too complex as to go beyond their level of comprehension. Detailing forums have a readership that comprises both professional and neophyte detailers of alll educational lbackrounds, making it a challenge to find ‘common ground’.
 
No worries! I am comprehending this conversation completely and am very thankful for the knowledge of this topic that you are all sharing. Thank you all again for sharing your knowledge and experience in this area.
TOGWT said:




It’s often a difficult balance to achieve when providing technical information; it shouldn’t be too simplistic as to insult the readers intelligence and not too complex as to go beyond their level of comprehension. Detailing forums have a readership that comprises both professional and neophyte detailers of alll educational lbackrounds, making it a challenge to find ‘common ground’.
 
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