Should the government bail-out include domestic automakers?

Should the government bail-out include domestic automakers?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
MikeWinLDS said:
Seeing all the past plant closures and outsourcing just to make a buck at the expense of American lives, no, I hope those greedy pigs go down.



How about we try and change the corporate culture here so the workers don't have to go down with the greedy pigs? How about we all lean out the window and yell "I'm fed up and I'm not going to take it anymore!"...
 
From what I can find, it seems that GM's employment is down to about 66,000(39,000 hourly and 27,000 salary). I presume that's just in the US.
 
I am truly conflicted by the proposed bailout. For one, I beleive in a free market economy and "bailouts" by nature unduly affect the due course of unprofitable/mismanaged companies. It essentially rewards failure, while profitable companies are not given any other incentive than their own ingeniuty.



The collapse of the mighty GM/Chrysler/Ford is ironic in that the companies are actually collectively producing better quality cars. (even using Consumer Reports reliability ratings, American vehicles have improved greatly that the least reliable vehicle in their rating system is substantianly better than similiar vehicles five years ago). The UAW has agreed to a landmark agreement to absorb the healthcare costs of its retirees. (it is estimated that future UAW plants ( 3 to 5 year timeframe) will have a comparable cost structure as the Non union Toyota plants.



While there is legitimate blame to go around for all the follies of the Big 3, one must remember the importance of the auto industry to the US (and Canadian) economies. A collapse would not only affect auto employees, but countless suppliers, towns in immediate veicinites, ancillary businesses, and another loss of capital goods production in the NA continent.
 
MotorCity said:
Regardless if you feel that they should receive some of the money on a moral basis the facts are that if they go under the ripple effects will devastate this country



You're right about that Jason. Imagine how much worse things could get for not only Michigan, but the entire country. I think the only ones to gain from it would be the non-Big 3 American car companies.
 
The Honda Ridgeline doesn't compare and it's never going to compete with the domestic trucks. It's a light truck and FWD and built on a car chassis IIRC. The real comparison (and one which domestics almost always lose) is against the Toyota Tundra. It's quicker than my Bimmer 0-60!
 
I'm for a bailout if they agree to meeting some very stringent CAFE standards. Everytime the standards are raised, they piss and moan how they can't possibly meet that mileage requirement. Because they couldn't they are in the current predicament. I'm also in favor of reviewing management pay structure for any company under government bailout. If your company is tanking, you aren't worth millions.
 
They shoulg get a bailout... if the big 3 go down, it woin't be a ripple effect, it will be a nuke going off in every community in America.



The fat cats who run the companies should bite the bullet and take a salary no more than the average worker. Someone who makes $16.5 million a year can afford it... when Lee Iacocca went to the feds for loan to save Chrysler in the mid 70's he took a salary of $1 a year.
 
I saw a statistic that 1 in 10 jobs in the US is related to the auto industry. I would like to exec pay reduced and retired union workers have to give their "no cost" health care benefits. All the salaried workers are losing their no cost benefits.
 
There was another thread on here recently, when one of our American friends jokingly talked about Canada being socialist, re. our medical system paid for by taxes. When does it take away from the capitalist, free market system when the govt. bails out companies in trouble. It almost becomes the govt. running the business? On the other hand, as mentioned in other responses here, it is a huge part of the American economy. In the real world today, the government should be there for the good of the people, and compromises in the system may be necessary.
 
David Fermani said:
You're right about that Jason. Imagine how much worse things could get for not only Michigan, but the entire country. I think the only ones to gain from it would be the non-Big 3 American car companies.



Yep, estimates are the the big 3 generate Approx 10 MILLION jobs (OEM, Dealers, Suppliers, Logistics, Service Industry that supports workers, etc) creating $330 BILLION in annual income that alone is STAGERRING, then you also need to factor in the taxes that each plant contributes to the city/town in which it operates...



DaGonz said:
The fat cats who run the companies should bite the bullet and take a salary no more than the average worker. Someone who makes $16.5 million a year can afford it...



Agreed



DaGonz said:
when Lee Iacocca went to the feds for loan to save Chrysler in the mid 70's he took a salary of $1 a year.



Ha ha, Lee was no fool... Dont be fooled, He did VERY well that year after stock options/bonus'.... The $1 pay was all smoke and mirrors
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if the government bails out GM where does the government get the money? taxpayers, you and me? Same thing with Fannie and Fredie Mac the taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the greedy CEO's lending money out to people who couldn't afford it.
 
taki0187 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if the government bails out GM where does the government get the money? taxpayers, you and me? Same thing with Fannie and Fredie Mac the taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the greedy CEO's lending money out to people who couldn't afford it.



The current proposal is to provide $75B to the Big 3, estimates are that if JUST ONE of the big three dissapear it will cost us * $175B in just the first year.....



* Based on a report on NPR
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Rewarding industry for failure yet again. Hooray?



Tort

(shakes head in disgust)





I agree its just ridiculous. I'd rather go through the 5-10 year pain of all that unemployment and money loss than give them a dime. These companies were/are run by the same people that were there when oil went scarce in the 70's but less than two decades later they did the same thing all over again and their only pathetic excuse is they just built what Americans wanted:mad:

If they go down I truly believe that out of the ashes of the devastation would come a better America. Let it happen.
 
Does anyone have a list of the companies that have asked or did receive a bailout recently.



Paul Harvey on the radio yesterday said AIG is asking or received? another 40 billion, to make it 100 billion total, while all the big wigs were caught at a fancy resort, lying about who they worked for.
 
Given I don't live in the US I'm not directly affected by this, but I feel for you guys. I would seriously feel kicked in the balls if my government was going to use my tax money to support companies that got themselves in trouble for producing ****** inferior product for most of the last ~15 years (not to mention get themselves in too deep with crappy UAW deals).
 
the big whigs that made the real choices should not be compensated anymore than a white collar manager - It digusts me to see these guys still get their normal salary/incentives whilst running an organization into the ground. I am hopeful that the leverage the feds will have by granring the cash infusion will result in the head honcho's getting some serious pay slashes.3



when you take into consideration the below, to me the decison becomes more palatable



1) The impact it will have on our economy to let them go under

2) What it will cost the country (you and I $75B to infuse these companaies with what is needed to keep them afloat until they can re-tool and until union contracts turnover to relieve them of some legacy costs VS. what it will cost the country (again you and I $175 in the first year alone)
 
MotorCity said:
...estimates are that if JUST ONE of the big three dissapear it will cost us * $175M in just the first year.....



* Based on a report on NPR



Seems to me, if we saved the billions of dollars per month we're spending on wars, we could easily offset the 14.5M per month (=175M/yr) in that estimate.



We're fighting a losing battle by bailing out all these companies. Now that our government has bailed out the financial institutions, any other company can piss and moan, "me too!"

If the executives can't run their business profitably, then they need to change their ways or face the consequences. When small businesses with 10 employees are at risk of going under, do they have a right to use taxpayer money to bring themselves above water? Where do we draw the line? Just because a company is large enough to affect a broad population, they deserve better treatment than smaller businesses?



WE ALREADY HAVE NO MONEY. Why don't we stop spending so d*mn much and start looking at ways to save some? The government seems to have the same money management training as these failing CEOs.
 
Back
Top