shop or no??? the dilema

Eric another consideration... I see you keep mentioning you want a shop for more volume. Do you have clients in mind already? I have to assume that you're planning on picking up some dealership accounts (or some other form of volume account) I would try to get some of those on the hook before you sign on the dotted line. Pick a location that not only has some traffic count but is realitively close to those volume accounts as well. Because without them there's not much point in taking on all that risk. Start knockin on some doors there man LOL.
 
yeah, that is what I was planning...getting some volume accounts to keep things flowing! I hear ya on the needing clients before opening up shop. BUT, dont you think opening up shop would bring in new clients faster???



Lets say as it sits right now, I had enough income to live on for a year, not working another day for a year stashed away without changing anything I do...take the risk?
 
WAS said:
Those commenting on Eric not being busy: True, you need to be more or less "regularly" booked when you own a fixed location, if you want to be able to make any decent money. More important question to ask though is, why is Eric not fully booked ? Is it because of weather ? Is it because he specializes in "Autopian" details and not run-of-the-mill basic clean-ups ? When you have a fixed shop, unless you have a very specific niche market, half of your details are going to be soccer-mom mini-vans that need vinyl cleaned, stains taken out of carpets, and odours destroyed.



This is an important fact to take note of. If you as the detailer really only love doing it because you get to work on high end cars and make their paint look nearly flawless, then plunging into the fixed shop world might not be for you. When it comes to fixed shop, you have overhead costs, and those costs need to be paid for, whether it's from a Ferrari 360 or a Dodge Caravan.
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partially not booked due to rain, and partially because I dont advertise at all in the right places...I really need to keep doing that. I was slammed for 2 months, and then this month only 6 days are lined up so far with 3 outstanding emails pending...I dont have maintanence accounts just yet.



That is what keeps telling me NOT to. I want to make every car perfect as I can get it given the time frame I have to work on. As I mentioned, I usually am overworked and underpaid LOL, but thats my own "fault" - I get more compliments for being hard working and "honest"
 
You will defiantly get a lot of people just walking through the doors. In general the masses will take you more seriously when you own a shop. Remember the steps of detailers as business owners. 50% are start up hacks with no insurence or DBA's that are here one night gone the next, 30% are dealership detailers and business owners that cater to the dealerships at their location 19% are set location stand alone shop owners that are looked at as actual business owners by the general public and in general are thought to be able to do a better job than the dealership guys and then you have you true eliete detailer that are actually probably less than the last 1% but usually they have their own private clientel and work only on the best by the best etc etc etc... It's really where most of us strive to get to in this business (not all but alot of us) But most of us will just never get there (most of the time you not only have to have the right skills but also have the right break in being in the right place at the right time to make it happen) These are all just general opinions of most people I've talked with over the years and their views and are by no means set in stone accurate but I think most can agree to an extent on it.
 
WAS said:
Those commenting on Eric not being busy: True, you need to be more or less "regularly" booked when you own a fixed location, if you want to be able to make any decent money. More important question to ask though is, why is Eric not fully booked ? Is it because of weather ? Is it because he specializes in "Autopian" details and not run-of-the-mill basic clean-ups ? When you have a fixed shop, unless you have a very specific niche market, half of your details are going to be soccer-mom mini-vans that need vinyl cleaned, stains taken out of carpets, and odours destroyed.



This is an important fact to take note of. If you as the detailer really only love doing it because you get to work on high end cars and make their paint look nearly flawless, then plunging into the fixed shop world might not be for you. When it comes to fixed shop, you have overhead costs, and those costs need to be paid for, whether it's from a Ferrari 360 or a Dodge Caravan.
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Agreed. I mean even now with the economy being down and myself being slow you really can't pick and choose by vehicle. I mean only if you come across a customer who appears to be trouble then that might be a different story.



In the end though you're right bills need to be paid be it from doing some quick wash and waxes on some hondas or a full detail on a bmw work is work.



toyotaguy said:
partially not booked due to rain, and partially because I dont advertise at all in the right places...I really need to keep doing that. I was slammed for 2 months, and then this month only 6 days are lined up so far with 3 outstanding emails pending...I dont have maintanence accounts just yet.



That is what keeps telling me NOT to. I want to make every car perfect as I can get it given the time frame I have to work on. As I mentioned, I usually am overworked and underpaid LOL, but thats my own "fault" - I get more compliments for being hard working and "honest"
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Eric i'm in your shoes to man. I have been wanting a shop for sooooo long and ion my head i keep thinking if i get a shop that might help with business. I'll have a fixed location that i can advertise all over not to mention while i am at home at night the shop will still be advertising to those driving by. I keep thinking that because i have a fixed location it will just help me out but in the end if business is slow you don't want to get locked into a lease and run into more issues in the end if you can't fulfill the lease terms.



I too want every car to be perfect and it kills me when people don't want to pay the extra to have their car treated properly because in the end the result of the detail is a representation of my company and if they only want it done 1/2 assed then i portray that to be the image of my company. It's hard man i know it is.



I personally think those shops you posted up are way to big. You can always move spaces if you need to expand. You would be surprised to know that you really would only need 800 sq ft - 1000 sq ft to run a nice shop.



I wish i was up in California already because i would seriously sit down and meet with you and see if we could pull something together and make a nice shop happen. PM me.
 
Here is what I found: Retail/Office/Industrial for SUBLEASE



I know the listing agent and he's going to call me tomorrow. There is a "story" with the place- it was a high end used car dealer with detail shop. They are still open, but it says avail. immediately. The detailers are working illegally in terms of containment and do not have a clean look-although the site is clean and some cars are very nice. Corner location is busy all day with cars- never stops. Within about 4 blocks you have at least 10 auto shops and one tunnel wash.



Price is not cheap, but he did mention it's a buyers' market so maybe the lease has some openess.



Anyway. A shop where you can add tint, pdr, wsr, etc. would really open up for more business. Market with existing repair shops and used lots. You can do express details and make money. We do a $150 detail in 2 hrs. (4 man hours). Overhead will go up so like a restaurant, you need capital to keep it going for a few months.



Rob Regan
 
lets say you are paying about $1000-1200 a month in rent, in a two bay sized place, with enough room for 3 cars stored for the night, two with doors wide open, a small office area, restroom, waiting area...good location near other auto shops, but none in the detailing field (PDR, tint, stereo, etc)... working alone, or with just one extra set of hands at $10-12per hour for the help. would you do it?



I had that exact offer thrown at me a year and half ago and I passed on it...
 
WCD said:
Here is what I found: Retail/Office/Industrial for SUBLEASE



I know the listing agent and he's going to call me tomorrow. There is a "story" with the place- it was a high end used car dealer with detail shop. They are still open, but it says avail. immediately. The detailers are working illegally in terms of containment and do not have a clean look-although the site is clean and some cars are very nice. Corner location is busy all day with cars- never stops. Within about 4 blocks you have at least 10 auto shops and one tunnel wash.



Price is not cheap, but he did mention it's a buyers' market so maybe the lease has some openess.



Anyway. A shop where you can add tint, pdr, wsr, etc. would really open up for more business. Market with existing repair shops and used lots. You can do express details and make money. We do a $150 detail in 2 hrs. (4 man hours). Overhead will go up so like a restaurant, you need capital to keep it going for a few months.



Rob Regan
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Rob, where are you located? By the looks of it in Santa Barbara . . . . never knew that until you just posted that. Ahh man that's my old home town. Went to La Cumbre Middle School & Santa Barbara High School lol. Was just out that way couple years back.



Next time i head back i should look you up and spin by the place if you do decide to open up shop there.



toyotaguy said:
lets say you are paying about $1000-1200 a month in rent, in a two bay sized place, with enough room for 3 cars stored for the night, two with doors wide open, a small office area, restroom, waiting area...good location near other auto shops, but none in the detailing field (PDR, tint, stereo, etc)... working alone, or with just one extra set of hands at $10-12per hour for the help. would you do it?



I had that exact offer thrown at me a year and half ago and I passed on it...
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Eric, there is a reason why you passed on that offer. Things will fall into place man, don't worry. There is always a reason why things pan out the way that they do and it's probably because another better opportunity will make its way towards you. I'm just like you and can be very impatient at times but it will work man.
 
What years were you at La Cumbre? I was there, too! Adams, Vieja Valley, La Cumbre, San Marcos, SBCC and then off to college- grad school and all. I grew up in Hidden Valley off of Modoc.



Anyway, please give me a call next time you are in town.



I've learned that looking back does nothing for the present. Thus, maybe write down your goals and study the business idea more. I would not do it unless I had something coming in at that location that would pay fixed costs such as a wholesale account. Once you factor in your salary and all costs, then you can figure on your shop rate. My friend near Boston hopes to hire a 2nd guy this year so that he is simply running it for now on..wants to spend his time on marketing, sales, and calls. As it grows, you need a plan. How will you handle more work then you or 2 employees can handle?



I'd talk around town a bit and see if you can line up work ahead of time. What about a solid tinter that is mobile, but wants a shop? You promote tinting and he does it at your shop for a % of profits.



Talk to high end mechanic shop owners. Cross promote services.



Community events, schools, little league, etc.



Rob
 
vtec92civic said:
Eric, there is a reason why you passed on that offer. Things will fall into place man, don't worry. There is always a reason why things pan out the way that they do and it's probably because another better opportunity will make its way towards you. I'm just like you and can be very impatient at times but it will work man.
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yeah, I passed on it because I wasnt close to busy enough or doing so many longer details. Now, these days, its only 9+ hour details it seems! I think I have done about 20cars at 10+hours this year= 200+ hours. I keep a spreadsheet of income and hours worked just to see where I am at...I have only worked for 280 hours this year so far! (not including the charity/free work = about 60 hours). So now, more and more, it seems like I need it, but who knows what the future will hold! Good thing about that offer was it was next to a porsche mechanic who didnt take on any work unless it was over 5K in repairs...he had two weeks of appointments booked for over a year!



Tyson, that link you just sent me is in a prime location, Ill have to go check it out!
 
toyotaguy said:
partially not booked due to rain, and partially because I dont advertise at all in the right places...I really need to keep doing that. I was slammed for 2 months, and then this month only 6 days are lined up so far with 3 outstanding emails pending...I dont have maintanence accounts just yet.



That is what keeps telling me NOT to. I want to make every car perfect as I can get it given the time frame I have to work on. As I mentioned, I usually am overworked and underpaid LOL, but thats my own "fault" - I get more compliments for being hard working and "honest"
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OK, so improvement to be made on weather and some more aggressive / targeted marketing.



Hmmmmm, see that's where you have to be able to let go a bit. I'm not trying to stereotype here, but most soccer-mom mini-van owners couldn't give a rats *** about the swirls, RIDS or holograms in the paint. They care to the extent that it's clean and isn't muddy, but that's about it. They do however care about all those stains in the carpet, and the foul odour from that spilled apple juice. But, then, you'll get a nice BMW or Mercedes, with the owner's main concern being the exterior look of the car (perhaps they're a real estate agent and need their vehicle looking its best at all times).



Again, not trying to stereo-type, but you have to get into that mindset that not everyone wants (or needs for that matter) a complete "Autopian perfection" detail. To be honest, for most of us, that's not where the real $$$ lie either. Granted you may have problems "letting go", most of us would :nervous2: but then remember that you'll probably be having employees as well, so a lot of your time isn't necessarily going to be detailing anymore, but rather managing, doing accounting, deposits and outgoing cheques, marketing and general "ownership" type responsibilities.
 
WAS, you bring up very good points about the differences between how quality shops operate and how most Autopians think/operate. My market is very similar to yours. The majority of my customers care more about the inside than they do the outside, especially through the winter months. As you pointed out, you just have to sometimes let go when it comes to the Autopian-style exterior work. If they want it clean and shiney and that's all they are paying for, give them clean and shiney. There are plenty of 1-step products out there that will do just that and more than satisfy the customer.
 
Talked with the agent today. The existing used car owner would like to do ANYTHING that works. He will rent out 1 or 2 or all three bays. He will rent out the entire lot as well. Each bay is estimated at about 1k per month or 4500 for the entire deal. Traffic count is around 20k per day- very busy street and corner. The street intersecting this corner comes from the Riviera- a place with 1 mil. dollar homes, or more and is close to Montecito- Oprah, Rob Lowe, type area. This does not mean great things, but is just near all kinds of neighborhoods. Auto shops surround this area of town as do restaurants and one tunnel was about 5 blocks south.



All the add-ons would be ideal- tint, pdr, etc. I would sub out for now to get the market and then train later. If used car guy stays, then it's a way to get volume details to pay fixed costs.



Rent WAS 6k, but owner has lowered for three years to help out the existing business- times are tough in SB, too!



I am meeting with a competitor that I trust and know quite well so see if we can work something out- he has Superior's type customer- cream puff cars- he does not and will not touch a polisher. I am changing that in a few weeks when we train together.



A partner is the only way to swing this as I still teach elementary school. It's not easy doing it this way, but I have a business plan in a binder waiting for something like this.



Wife will kill me first and then I'll rise to get this going. :)



I have to research some more, but there is NOT ONE classy detail shop in this "one of the most expensive" cities in the US in which to live. There is a market for good work and good service, I'm sure of that. I also have 40 yrs. here and could get some good PR going right away and maybe some wholesale accounts.



There is even a new $750 per month place to store your car and have it ready when you are...climate controlled and all that. They are not detailing those cars- so who is? The agent told me he could put me in touch with the woman owner of the valet car service.



Anyway, that's an update on that location.



Rob
 
Regarding the express details- yes, you must change your business thinking to include them!



There is more money per hour (less costs) in express details...wash, clay, seal. Vac, extract mats, wipe down (quick steam), vac. done! $150 and 4 man hrs. (2 guys 2 hrs.) This was our big money maker and overall, best customer satisfaction last summer. Not the full blown jobs. It's so labor easy that 2 of you could do about 5 per day and not even break a sweat. One full detail and I can't bend over for about 2 days at my age.



A shine to the paint and it's protected with a clean interior is the key- not every little swirl and scratch. We explain it upfront and many are surprised at how nice the finish is--what we think is a detail vs. the customer can be completely opposite, but since the customer is paying me money, I tend to listen to the customer and not my OCD!



Rob
 
what do you think about this pricing structure for a shop location?



Packages:



wax and interior - set rate (2 hours time)

one step - set rate (2.5 hours)

one step and interior - set rate (3 hours)

full paint correction (95%+ only) - hourly

wholesale - 100-125 per car with



The way I figure it, with cheap enough rent (in the 100-1500 range) and one or two helpers, and clearing 750 per day, it should be a profitable venture. Whether its 5 $150 quick details done in 1.5 hours, or 2 $400 details done in 5 hours each (with help), however the traffics/money comes in is fine with me!





I would obviously have to figure out the best way to work with the other person and train him to do things my way so that if I was busy talking or whatever else, he would be able to carry on.



But what do you think about that setup? (without all the variables thrown in) Nothing is set in stone, and I am just in the preliminary stages of this thought, so i am trying to gather as much info as possible.
 
when you open can i get a part time job?? lol

toyotaguy said:
what do you think about this pricing structure for a shop location?



Packages:



wax and interior - set rate (2 hours time)

one step - set rate (2.5 hours)

one step and interior - set rate (3 hours)

full paint correction (95%+ only) - hourly

wholesale - 100-125 per car with



The way I figure it, with cheap enough rent (in the 100-1500 range) and one or two helpers, and clearing 750 per day, it should be a profitable venture. Whether its 5 $150 quick details done in 1.5 hours, or 2 $400 details done in 5 hours each (with help), however the traffics/money comes in is fine with me!





I would obviously have to figure out the best way to work with the other person and train him to do things my way so that if I was busy talking or whatever else, he would be able to carry on.



But what do you think about that setup? (without all the variables thrown in) Nothing is set in stone, and I am just in the preliminary stages of this thought, so i am trying to gather as much info as possible.
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Obviously, lots of good responses already. Here are a few of my thoughts. For a shop to make business sense, it comes down to a few key things; what services will be offered, the pricing, and the location. The businesses that are making big money around here, have a nice building in a high traffic location. The outside appearance is very nice; the landscaping etc. Most of these businesses are doing what basically amounts to express detailing. A team of guys/girls are all working together to get the job done quickly and efficiently. Pricing is structured so that the service is affordable for most people, not just the higher income brackets. Based on this, having a shop does not make a lot of sense unless you can find the right location, and achieve a certain level of efficiency.
 
mshu7 said:
WAS, you bring up very good points about the differences between how quality shops operate and how most Autopians think/operate. My market is very similar to yours. The majority of my customers care more about the inside than they do the outside, especially through the winter months. As you pointed out, you just have to sometimes let go when it comes to the Autopian-style exterior work. If they want it clean and shiney and that's all they are paying for, give them clean and shiney. There are plenty of 1-step products out there that will do just that and more than satisfy the customer.
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Thanks ! It's very true, a lot of us here have very specific mindsets about detailing, and what a car should have done to it. And while we may very well be correct in our thinking, it's what the client wants and expects that matters. And in order to turn volume, $650 exterior details aren't going to cut it, IMO.



toyotaguy said:
what do you think about this pricing structure for a shop location?



Packages:



wax and interior - set rate (2 hours time)

one step - set rate (2.5 hours)

one step and interior - set rate (3 hours)

full paint correction (95%+ only) - hourly

wholesale - 100-125 per car with



The way I figure it, with cheap enough rent (in the 100-1500 range) and one or two helpers, and clearing 750 per day, it should be a profitable venture. Whether its 5 $150 quick details done in 1.5 hours, or 2 $400 details done in 5 hours each (with help), however the traffics/money comes in is fine with me!
Click to expand...

Eric, here's a copy of my last year's flyer. Shoot me a PM if you're curious on hours / COGS / revenue. I've got some Excel files you should take a look at too.



brochure.png
 
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