shop or no??? the dilema

E

Envious Eric

New member
one man operation, possibly a two man team

maybe a two bay, or enough floor space to fit 3-4 cars

wash mat outside, or drainage inside (ideal)

working both paint correction and one steps



Think I should take the plunge? I mean, its going pretty good right now, I am just thinking that I want to expand a little and get some passerby traffic and let the shop space do some advertising for me as well. It would be a smaller shop obviously at the start and if I needed more space, then I would move locations, etc.



I dont know, I want to, but the risk is pretty big considering, but then again, location is key and I am in a pretty good area.



Thoughts? What are some factors I may be missing/not thinking about vs. being mobile only?
 
good to see you thinking the way that you are. i really would like a shop myself. I think it would just allow for a little more in every aspect in some cases that is. As for me not really here since things are slow but to be able to have all my gear in one set spot would be like heaven not to mention you would be able to carry a little more product and tools and not have to worry about cramming everything into your vehicle.



Down side is if things do for god sake get worse (in which i hope they don't) you might be locked into a lease with someone which could be a very bad thing.



So hey Eric you do PDR, tinting and bumper repairs and repaints or are you sub contracting that type of work out?
 
It's a tough decision without a doubt Eric. I started out a long time ago with a shop, went completely mobile, and now do both. Recently, some zoning changes forced us to look at whether we would go fully mobile, or look for a new location to be fixed.



Going fully mobile allows one to free up obvious things like capital normally spent on rent and electric. It also allows you to run a leaner business model that is dependent on how much your vehicle expenses are versus vehicle plus rent and utilities.



However, we decided to maintain a fixed location in addition to being mobile (the original way we started). This way we have a fixed point for sales, storage of vehicles and equipment/product, and long term projects. At the same time it allows us to have one of us work the shop while someone else goes to do a mobile detail.



So, I may or may not have cleared up anything for you, but here's my summed up thought based on our business: We went with a shop first and mobility second. We were able to increase our mobile detailing presence as we made more money at the shop and now they work together.



You already have mobility, so you would have to work at bringing clients in. I don't think that would be hard for you seeing your work. You could definitely use the shop for longer projects and for storage. Plus it would give potential clients a good meeting place (as long as it is conveniently located) and and added presence in the community. Being only mobile is great, but that in combination with a place to call home is double-sweet.
 
Well, there are definitely pluses and minuses to having a fixed shop.



One plus, and I don't think anyone can debate this one, is having a place to work that's inside, unaffected by the weather. Never again will you have to worry about the weather being an issue in your business, determining whether you can work that day or not.



Another plus is that you should be able to increase capacity. The most irritating part of mobile detailing (for me anyways) is always having to pack and unpack supplies. I probably wasted an hour a car doing that. No thanks.



Yes, downsides are of course lease costs and utilities. And insurance will probably be a bit more. However, if it's a leased facility vs a purchased one, at least you won't have to worry about building maintenance (door replacements, etc).



There's probably a million other positives and negatives out there that just aren't coming to mind right now, but the bottom line is this: if you can increase capacity by having a fixed location, as long as that capacity can at least cover your added expenses, then why not.
 
D Tailor said:
It's a tough decision without a doubt Eric. I started out a long time ago with a shop, went completely mobile, and now do both. Recently, some zoning changes forced us to look at whether we would go fully mobile, or look for a new location to be fixed.



Going fully mobile allows one to free up obvious things like capital normally spent on rent and electric. It also allows you to run a leaner business model that is dependent on how much your vehicle expenses are versus vehicle plus rent and utilities.



However, we decided to maintain a fixed location in addition to being mobile (the original way we started). This way we have a fixed point for sales, storage of vehicles and equipment/product, and long term projects. At the same time it allows us to have one of us work the shop while someone else goes to do a mobile detail.



So, I may or may not have cleared up anything for you, but here's my summed up thought based on our business: We went with a shop first and mobility second. We were able to increase our mobile detailing presence as we made more money at the shop and now they work together.



You already have mobility, so you would have to work at bringing clients in. I don't think that would be hard for you seeing your work. You could definitely use the shop for longer projects and for storage. Plus it would give potential clients a good meeting place (as long as it is conveniently located) and and added presence in the community. Being only mobile is great, but that in combination with a place to call home is double-sweet.
Click to expand...



That is along the lines I was thinking...fixed for longer/all day corrections/multi-day jobs, and mobile for the one steps and wash/wax/interior stuff. Plus the social circle of friends/business neighbors to send business wouldnt hurt either.





WAS said:
Well, there are definitely pluses and minuses to having a fixed shop.



One plus, and I don't think anyone can debate this one, is having a place to work that's inside, unaffected by the weather. Never again will you have to worry about the weather being an issue in your business, determining whether you can work that day or not.



Another plus is that you should be able to increase capacity. The most irritating part of mobile detailing (for me anyways) is always having to pack and unpack supplies. I probably wasted an hour a car doing that. No thanks.



Yes, downsides are of course lease costs and utilities. And insurance will probably be a bit more. However, if it's a leased facility vs a purchased one, at least you won't have to worry about building maintenance (door replacements, etc).



There's probably a million other positives and negatives out there that just aren't coming to mind right now, but the bottom line is this: if you can increase capacity by having a fixed location, as long as that capacity can at least cover your added expenses, then why not.
Click to expand...



That's what has me thinking I should at least try it out, see what happens. I keep going over things in my head and it sounds good, but I want to understand what I will be getting into before all that happens...from all aspects of leasing a shop, expenses, etc.
 
vtec92civic said:
good to see you thinking the way that you are. i really would like a shop myself. I think it would just allow for a little more in every aspect in some cases that is. As for me not really here since things are slow but to be able to have all my gear in one set spot would be like heaven not to mention you would be able to carry a little more product and tools and not have to worry about cramming everything into your vehicle.



Down side is if things do for god sake get worse (in which i hope they don't) you might be locked into a lease with someone which could be a very bad thing.



So hey Eric you do PDR, tinting and bumper repairs and repaints or are you sub contracting that type of work out?
Click to expand...



I subcontract that out. They tell me they will give a 20% referral bonus for each job.
 
toyotaguy said:
That's what has me thinking I should at least try it out, see what happens. I keep going over things in my head and it sounds good, but I want to understand what I will be getting into before all that happens...from all aspects of leasing a shop, expenses, etc.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that (and I don't personally care what anyone else says), turn-around time per vehicle is faster in a fixed location. Like I said, everything from not worrying about the weather to having your supplies out and handy "right away" make a fixed location a good choice. With faster turn-around time, you can do more vehicles, again, if you have that customer capacity. Then as you get busier, you might even find yourself hiring more employees. Then your turn-around is even faster, and you can get more cars through per day, and so on and so forth.



As long as you're careful with how much your lease and expense are, the only real "risk" is not being able to bring enough customers in.
 
WAS said:
As long as you're careful with how much your lease and expense are, the only real "risk" is not being able to bring enough customers in.
Click to expand...



I am pretty good with money, especially the saving part...LOL



the only other thing I would have to figure out is the paying of employees, either payroll or 1099, and I am thinking 1099 might be easiest.



I guess I will have to start re-working a business plan I had started a while back and find some possible locations...



Keep the topic going though, I would love to hear everyone's input!



what would you get more of, correction details, or clean ups? How about from dealers...I assume more cleanup (two hour type) rather than paint corrections (all day)
 
If you are mobile, and are making good money, I wouldn't change. Why not just buy another truck, and add an employee. When you are too busy to meet the demands of your customers, get a fixed location. In California you have a nice advantage of good weather, here in Seattle it would be very difficult to be mobile, as it rains far too often.





John
 
JohnKleven said:
If you are mobile, and are making good money, I wouldn't change. Why not just buy another truck, and add an employee. When you are too busy to meet the demands of your customers, get a fixed location. In California you have a nice advantage of good weather, here in Seattle it would be very difficult to be mobile, as it rains far too often.





John
Click to expand...



on one end You have a very good point. on the other end, I am not slammed busy anymore. just a few here and there planned for march right now. Maybe thats a good thing because I really jacked up my finger on my dominant hand. :sosad



anyway, I went and checked out one of the shops, the on in costa mesa and it looked pretty legit, enough room for 6 cars inside the place, with an office area and in a prime location in the lot. I then get home and check the email response from the property owner..."washing of cars is not allowed on our premises" Well, there goes that one! Sucks too because there was a lot of auto related businesses from stereo, PDR, mechanics, etc.



Thoughts and the search continue....:argue:argue:argue
 
From my point of view a shop is a great asset . It allows for much faster working times, the customer comes to you(how much time in a day do you spend in motion?), it allows you to expand into other services and boosts your customers confidence in you.



Here are a few pics of one of our shops.



CIMG2758.jpg




CIMG2084.jpg




CIMG2145.jpg




Other advantages of a shop



Proper lighting, drainage, you can set up scissor lifts, the customer is not watching you, your tools are always handy, the shop becomes advertising.....
 
Yvan, all good points that I agree on!



its just going to be up to me to find a place in a good location for a good price...looking to lease, not buy
 
A few other points to consider...



1) Going from a mobile operation to a fixed, how many of your current customers would bring their car to you, especially ones that are quickie-job type customers? Do they want to invest their time driving to you as opposed to you coming to them from now on? You've spoiled them by being mobile, and now you're going to ask them to not only come to you, but to also most likely find arrangements to get themselves back home and then back to your shop again.



2) With a shop, you can work day or night. When you're mobile, you're basically only working "sun-up" hours, during good weather. Having a shop allows many more "billable" hours. You can work as long as you can physically stand to work - if there are cars to work on.



3) Your first shop doesn't have to be nor should it be your dream shop. Since this will be your first shop location, you have no proof that your business will succeed in this setting/location. Get into something over your head, and you could be doomed financially for a long, looong time. I'd highly suggest you look at smaller, more basic facilities, especially if you are still going to do quickie-jobs at a customers' house.



4) You said you aren't that busy right now and only have a few lined up so far for March. That right there would be a sign that it's not the right time to invest in a shop. Unless you're just experiencing a slower than normal schedule right now, I'd say throwing the added expense of a shop (and all the other expenses that come along with it) would not be the right thing to do. The whole "build it and they will come" idea only works in the movies.



5) How much cash on hand do you have (rhetorical question)? Sure, you may have all the tools and products you need to be mobile, but there are going to be many other things you'll want to or need to purchase if you move into a shop. It's like going from an apartment where everything is taken care of to a house where it's all on you. Also regarding cash, do you have an emergency fund specifically set aside so that if business were to drop off for a while, you could still afford to pay the bills? Don't go into debt to do this. If you do and it fails, it will be very, very painful.



Having started out as a mobile operation and now being in a fixed location only, I can't imagine being mobile again. Having a shop is definitely a luxury. If you can pull it off financially, I think it's a great thing. If you can't, it could very well be disastrous and take years to recover. I've been in my shop for a year now (today actually), and I absolutely love having it. That said, it has been a learning experience. I would highly recommend you go over your business plan many times and make sure all your ducks are in a row before you sign a dotted line. Good luck in whatever you choose to do! :2thumbs:
 
Man Eric good luck with this one. Lot's of great advice already given out. There's so many things about having a set location shop I really miss. And then so many things I really don't There are obviously a LOT of advantages to owning a fixed location. And it's seriously one of the biggest things I miss. I loved the fact that the constant variable was my location, my shelves, my stuff all right where I needed it at all times. Rain or shine I was still working. Being mobile takes that constant out of the equation. But it's a lot more expensive running a fixed location over a mobile unit for sure. Good luck with the move.
 
toyotaguy said:
I am pretty good with money, especially the saving part...LOL



the only other thing I would have to figure out is the paying of employees, either payroll or 1099, and I am thinking 1099 might be easiest.



I guess I will have to start re-working a business plan I had started a while back and find some possible locations...



Keep the topic going though, I would love to hear everyone's input!



what would you get more of, correction details, or clean ups? How about from dealers...I assume more cleanup (two hour type) rather than paint corrections (all day)
Click to expand...

For me, employees would be payroll, no other way to go (keeping in mind we both live in different countries).



I get 95% clean-ups. Now this isn't your "average" clean-up as you Autopians might consider. I'll point to this thread:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-de...-whitehorse-auto-spa-2006-toyota-corolla.html

of a vehicle we did that was actually pretty clean already. These take more or less day to do if it's just 1 person working on it. Our most popular package (what 90% of people choose), includes a complete exterior wash, dry, full interior vacuum, vinyl scrubbing, full interior shampoo, window cleaning, vinyl dressing and tire dressing.



Paint corrections aren't something we get a ton of, but there is the odd one here and there, those, of course, take most of the day as well.



I personally have a 1 bay shop, which JUST got finished being built, which I will post pictures of in the next few days (in a new thread). I already know that I have a much more demand than I can support, so I'm already looking into building a 3 or 4 bay shop. When I started the business, I was working out of a garage tent (from thesheltershopdotcom). Because the tent was not secure, I couldn't leave my shampooer or vacuums out, so I easily spent an hour everyday just moving equipment back and forth. So for me, a fixed shop is the only way I'm really prepared to go.
 
hey eric, maybe we should get together?? i have experience with running my own shop and can give you some advice on what not to do. i went mobile and miss my shop tremendously!! PM me unless you still have my number, maybe we can meet up this week
 
toyotaguy said:
on one end You have a very good point. on the other end, I am not slammed busy anymore. just a few here and there planned for march right now. Maybe thats a good thing because I really jacked up my finger on my dominant hand. :sosad



anyway, I went and checked out one of the shops, the on in costa mesa and it looked pretty legit, enough room for 6 cars inside the place, with an office area and in a prime location in the lot. I then get home and check the email response from the property owner..."washing of cars is not allowed on our premises" Well, there goes that one! Sucks too because there was a lot of auto related businesses from stereo, PDR, mechanics, etc.



Thoughts and the search continue....:argue:argue:argue
Click to expand...



You will want to keep in mind, if you're not slammed busy now, then when your overhead goes up astronomically, what are you going to do when business is slow. My thought is, take however much you think your overhead will be when you open your new shop, and triple it. That's how much you will need to break even. Give me a call sometime and I will help you get started.





John
 
Fellas, thanks for all the advice! i am taking it all in, and its all helping.



I am not so sure I want/need to get a shop, but I am entertaining the idea.



reasons:

more volume capacity

set location where everything will be lined up and efficient

more gross income



On the other hand, I have set this business up to be higher end and have a hard time doing express type details...just yesterday I should have 2 stepped a car, but 3 stepped it "because it needed it". and the other day, I two stepped a car instead of a one step because I wanted to get all the contamination off the car (really bad and 2 hours to clay) so I went with a more aggressive clay which I only bring out when 2-3 stepping a car. I always seem to go above and beyond with the scope of workeven when I'm not getting paid for it, which could really hurt the "shop location business" in one sense.



But with the capacity to do 6-10 quick clean ups (wash/wax/light interior) at $125 each in a shop setup, that is what makes me want to get one. but as mentioned, what happens when there is only 2-3 of those...???



I don't know, but a friend once told me, being an entrepreneur is all about taking risks...calculated risks!!!
 
Those commenting on Eric not being busy: True, you need to be more or less "regularly" booked when you own a fixed location, if you want to be able to make any decent money. More important question to ask though is, why is Eric not fully booked ? Is it because of weather ? Is it because he specializes in "Autopian" details and not run-of-the-mill basic clean-ups ? When you have a fixed shop, unless you have a very specific niche market, half of your details are going to be soccer-mom mini-vans that need vinyl cleaned, stains taken out of carpets, and odours destroyed.



This is an important fact to take note of. If you as the detailer really only love doing it because you get to work on high end cars and make their paint look nearly flawless, then plunging into the fixed shop world might not be for you. When it comes to fixed shop, you have overhead costs, and those costs need to be paid for, whether it's from a Ferrari 360 or a Dodge Caravan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top