Self-Detailing - product/technique questions!!!

If you are getting a polisher, I would reccomend the UDM over the PC. Less vibration, quieter, and runs smoother, IMO.



If you choose not to go that route, listen to Accumulator's advice. In place of P21S, I would get Collinite 845, since it is so easy to use and lasts a long while.



I really don't understand all the fear over machine polishing. I have buffed probably 100+ cars and trucks with either the PC or UDM (using abrasive polishes/cleaners), and never came close to damaging the paint on any of them. If you are serious about car care, you really should pick one up.
 
Bigpoppa3346 said:
I really don't understand all the fear over machine polishing. I have buffed probably 100+ cars and trucks with either the PC or UDM (using abrasive polishes/cleaners), and never came close to damaging the paint on any of them.
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My caution comes from bad experiences family/friends who have taken their cars to so called "professional" detailers/body shops here in the Louisville area and have their cars returned with burn marks or other surface damage. Fortunately in each case they were able to force the detailer/body shop to pay for repainting that panel on their car - one case involved small claims court. I would just like to avoid the hassle and if that means doing it myself, I will. I just want to make sure I have the proper techniques to do the job right.



The more I read and learn on this site, I have come to the conclusion that these detailers/body shops were probably using rotary's rather than DA's to cause the damage. From the threads I have read, even if you are using a bad technique, you won't damage your paint - you may not have a good finished product and be wasting your time and money - but you won't damage the paint.
 
The only way you can really damage anything is if you get grit in your pad (or run over a gritty spot on the car) or if you are polishing over some already damaged paint (like some crazed paint on a bumper cover that has been cracked from impact and some might flake off). That's presuming you don't use 4" cutting pads and really lean on it.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
The only way you can really damage anything is if you get grit in your pad (or run over a gritty spot on the car) or if you are polishing over some already damaged paint (like some crazed paint on a bumper cover that has been cracked from impact and some might flake off).
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Well, this thread is relieving the fears I had of using a UDM. Again those fears arose due friends/family members whose paint was damaged from incompetent detailers/body shops in town who were probably using rotarys rather than DA's.



Setec Astronomy said:
That's presuming you don't use 4" cutting pads and really lean on it.
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I am planning on getting the UDM DAS Polisher Kit which comes with pads. I believe those are 6" pads. Have you used the DAS pads? What was your feeling on them compared to LC pads?
 
I have only used the Swirlbuster out of the current DAS pads, and I didn't like it that much. I can't comment on the current LC pads, since everything seems to be the CCS and I haven't used them.
 
bert31 said:
How do you know when the polish has been fully broken down? By its appearance? The video I watched it looked like the polish started out cloudy and got clearer and clearer as the detailer kept working the PC on the paint. I assume once the polish is clear your finished?
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As noted, the general rule-of-thumb is that polishes go translucent when they're broken down.



One of the reasons I recomend 1Z stuff is that it's basically impossible to over-work those polishes; they break down and basically turn into cleaner wax (due to their high wax content) so a little too much work time isn't a problem the way it can be with other products. Also, when used by hand it's actually pretty easy to *feel* the 1Z abrasives breaking down...a few minutes working them by hand can be very informative.



Heh heh, I predict that a while after you get the UDM/whatever you'll be wishing it were *more* powerful...you'll probably start thinking about a rotary ;)
 
Accumulator said:
As noted, the general rule-of-thumb is that polishes go translucent when they're broken down.
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Seems simple enough. Before reading this thready, I had no idea when you stop polishing a spot.



Accumulator said:
Heh heh, I predict that a while after you get the UDM/whatever you'll be wishing it were *more* powerful...you'll probably start thinking about a rotary ;)
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Now let's not go crazy there Accum. I like taking baby steps. I like baby steps if for no other reason then the fact that since I began reading then joining this site a month and a half ago, going online to check my credit card balance causes emotional drama. Baby steps I say, baby steps!!!!!
 
The bad experiences were caused by a rotary, not probably. DA polishers don't create buffer swirls (holograms) and unless the paint is unusually thin to begin with I don't think you can do any real damage (in the short term at least).
 
Ok after reading a bit more here - it looks like I'm better off going with the UDM and I really can't damage my paint this way with common sense...hope I'm not making a mistake!



Ok here is what I gather so far on the process I should follow along w/product suggestions...please correct me if I am wrong. Questions are once again in bold.



Start off by washing my car with the two bucket method. I'm planning to use the

Genuine Wool Wash Mit from the autopia store along with Sonus Gloss Shampoo.



At this point, do I dry the car off completely before the next step?



For drying, I think I'm going to go with the Der Wunder Drying Towel.



Next is claying. Sonus SFX Ultra-Fine Detailing Clay seems to be a good choice for this.



Following the claying, I'll be polishing (correct?) For this, I am planning to get the UDM as it seems that this is the most fool-proof way of polishing. What pads will I need to get for all my polishing needs (size/type?). For polish - I'm thinking 1Z Einszett Metallic Polish Wax??? Is that overkill for a newer car - or not the right type of polish?



Since I am planning to get the UDM - what should I use for the light surface scratches and at what stage of my process does this step fit in?



Finally comes the wax. If I'm correct, Collinite #845 Liquid Insulator Wax looks like a great choice for durability and gloss...correct me if I'm wrong please.



*******

So that's about it. I understand that many of my questions are hiding throughout the foums, and trust me I've been reading for some time. I just want to make sure I am doing this right since this will be my first time detailing. Again, if anything is wrong or I'm missing steps...please help me out!



Thanks
 
tCspool said:
Ok after reading a bit more here - it looks like I'm better off going with the UDM and I really can't damage my paint this way with common sense...hope I'm not making a mistake!
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You'll do fine, especially if you start with mild/user-friendly products.





Start off by washing my car..At this point, do I dry the car off completely before the[claying] step?
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You might try washing a panel, rinsing it, claying, rewashing, rerinsing. See how fast the claying goes. IF it goes very slowly you might want to wash/dry the car and then clay panel-by-panel.



Following the claying, I'll be polishing (correct?) For this, I am planning to get the UDM as it seems that this is the most fool-proof way of polishing. What pads will I need to get for all my polishing needs (size/type?). For polish - I'm thinking 1Z Einszett Metallic Polish Wax??? Is that overkill for a newer car - or not the right type of polish?



Since I am planning to get the UDM - what should I use for the light surface scratches and at what stage of my process does this step fit in?
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Can't really help with specific pads (dunno from the UDM) but generally with mild products like 1Z Metallic Polish you want to use fairly gentle polishing pad, one with no "cut" of its own but a slightly more porous foam than "finishing" pads.



No, 1Z MP is *NOT* overkill for a brand new car and it might not even be aggressive enough for any marring. It's very, very gentle stuff.



The more significant marring those "surface scratches" will probably need something like 1Z Paint Polish ( a good bit more aggressive than the MP), and *maybe* a light cutting pad. Perhaps you'd go over them with a light cutting pad and 1Z Paint Polish, then the same 1Z PP on a polishing pad, and then finally the 1Z MP on a polishing pad. Don't be surprised if you have to go over the scratches numerous times (after all, these are gentle products that don't take off much paint).



You deal with the significant scratches first and then do the whole car with the mild, finishing polishg (i.e., the 1Z MP).



If I'm correct, Collinite #845 Liquid Insulator Wax looks like a great choice for durability and gloss...
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The 845 is a great choice. Looks good and lasts a long time. Works fine over 1Z polishes (that's what I used for the first wax coat on my Blazer, after I used the 1z polishes.
 
I am planning on following Accumulators advice and going to give the 1Z then Collinite a try. I am basically in the same boat. I got a PC a bit ago and done a few small tests with it some some meg products, and now I think I am finally ready to tackle the whole car. I just need to wait for my order to arrive and give the 1Z products a try.



At first I was kinda nervious to use the PC thinking I could screw stuff up, but after running it a few times and read stuff here my fears are put at rest and I am now looking forward to getting good with the PC. I just wish I knew about the UMD when I got my PC.



I think the DAS pads are actually 5" pads. I have some but haven't used them yet so I don't know how they are. I am actually thinking of going smaller and getting some LC CCS 4" pads. The LC pads seem pretty popular and get fairly high marks here on the site.



chris
 
Thanks for the words of wisdom - I'll order all my supplies Tuesday and keep researching methods in the meantime.



I'm thinking too that I might be better off this time going to a local detailer just for the scratches and doing the rest myself since I'm a n00b.
 
tCspool said:
I'm thinking too that I might be better off this time going to a local detailer just for the scratches and doing the rest myself since I'm a n00b.
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I can see both sides of that...sure, if you have somebody *good* it could be a great idea. Problem is, IMO there are *VERY* few decent (let alone "good") detailers in the world and the vast majority of the people who do this stuff for money are hacks who shouldn't be touching your car.



Note the innumerable threads here about how some Autopian detailer had to repair damage caused by a "pro"...and sometimes the damage is beyond repair (at least without a paintgun ;) ).



I guess I'd lean towards not worrying too much about the serious scratches- just try to make them better and see how the whole thing goes. At the very least you'll have it looking better than it does now, and I bet that the problems you can't fix won't be too obvious to anybody buy you.



Going over a scratch a few times with something like 1Z PP won't take off too much clear, especially if you *do not* lean too hard on the polisher. I think you'll quickly find that the approach we're talking about, *when done by somebody who has the right mindset* (as I believe you do), really is nice and safe. I wasn't *entirely* foolin' about how you'll very likely want to get more aggressive.



Safe approach for serious scratches: use 1Z Ultra with terry cloth, by hand. Do about three/four passes and then go over it by machine with the 1Z Paint Polish. You'll probably find that a) the scratch is still there, which means that b) you didn't take off much clear after all. Do you want to repeat the process...taking off *more* clear...until the scratch is gone or do you want to quit and keep the clear nice and thick? Your call, same call that a pro using a rotary would have to make. I'd kinda prefer that *you* make the decision since you're obviously concerned about long-term thinning of your paint. Who knows *what* some stranger might decide to do...
 
Hey I just got my UDM and I'm a 1st time user. I got the DAS kit. Used it today for the 1st time. I used 3M rubbing compound w/ the orange(sirl buster) and also the White(scratch buster) pads. I leaned on it good on top speed and shined it nicely but did not take out lots of scratches(even w/ multiple passes) on a 99 Grand AM that was not cared for all that great. As soon as I did one spot on the roof or hood It was a lot deeper and shiny then the rest. After using it all day I dont think its possible to damage the paint especially w/ the DAS stuff. I also used SFX-1 and 4" yellow pad from the kit on autopia store, that was basically the same(pad seemed softer). I dont care for these pads will be getting some diff 4" cutting pads and some CCS pads.



You may be better off w/ this kit, its on sale this weekend only. Ultimate Detailing Machine Intro Kit



I've read great things about duragloss DG so tomarrow I will be finishing up w/ that(101) then some wax I have laying around, then DG 951AW later.



I allready have the need for a rotary for correctiveness, but the UDM is great for polishing thats a fact!



Also the best tutorial I saw was on autogeek.net under Dual Action Orbital Polishing guide, helped me lots.
 
Accumulator said:
I can see both sides of that...sure, if you have somebody *good* it could be a great idea. Problem is, IMO there are *VERY* few decent (let alone "good") detailers in the world and the vast majority of the people who do this stuff for money are hacks who shouldn't be touching your car....
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Point taken. I'm back to doing this myself with the help of the guide and this forum. I'm sure you'll be hearing from me shortly after receiving my products!
 
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