Selecting an oil filter

Kragen only sells Fram or Pennzoil filters :(



But just curious, if Fram is that bad, and lots of cars use them, wouldn't you see lots of dead engines due to Fram filter? And since Fram has met OEM specification so doesn't that means it's good enough for the automobile manaufacturers?
 
love2shine said:
Kragen only sells Fram or Pennzoil filters :(



But just curious, if Fram is that bad, and lots of cars use them, wouldn't you see lots of dead engines due to Fram filter? And since Fram has met OEM specification so doesn't that means it's good enough for the automobile manaufacturers?
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they are "good enough" but no where near the best. and they are expensive for what you get. a $3 purolator or motorcraft is 2x as good as a $4 fram



Sorry, but I didn't mean to cause any controversies here. I was just trying to get some opinions on oil filters as I am relatively new to the idea of working on my own car.



I have decided to go with Mobil 1 filters. They just seem the most highly regarded when I ask people about filters. I also took one out of the box when I was at the store and they seem very high quality with a tough outer casing. Therefore, I won't have to worry about it splitting open or falling apart like some report with other brands of filters.



Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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when was the last time you saw a burst oil filter on a street legal car? if your oil psi is big enought to burst an oil filter you have bigger concerns
 
I visit the oil forum mentioned earlier in this post to get my information. I'll use K&N if I feel like plunking down the $10. For more reasonably priced filters, I stick to AC Delco, Bosch Premium or Wix/Napa Gold filters.



Fram filters are constructed with different materials (cardboad) than most other filters. I personally don't like the idea of cardboard endcaps in my filter, so I avoid Fram.
 
love2shine said:
Kragen only sells Fram or Pennzoil filters :(



But just curious, if Fram is that bad, and lots of cars use them, wouldn't you see lots of dead engines due to Fram filter? And since Fram has met OEM specification so doesn't that means it's good enough for the automobile manaufacturers?
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Here is a link I have referenced in previous oil filter posts and I believe is listed in this thread as well.



http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html



The quote below is taken specifically from the page below. The data is about a year old but, I would be very suprised if Fram all of a sudden decided to make quality filters.



http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html



Filters To Avoid



The following list of filters have known problems. You will see well-known names here and will probably be disappointed. This is because many of these brands have stopped making their own filters and buy from a common manufacturer.



Fram Extra Guard



Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.



Fram Double Guard



Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.



Penzoil



This filter is a Fram! It is the exact same design as the Fram Extra Guard filter and it is junk. On the up side, it costs $1 less than the Fram version.



Quaker State



This is another Fram Extra Guard that I have seen at K-mart. It used to be a Purolator, but Quaker State is now owned/controlled by Penzoil...
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After the massive lawsuit between To&^ta and Ji*&^Y Lube a number of years ago, it was mandated that you can't FORCE people to use factory filters. The problem comes from determining what those standards are. All the aftermarket industry cares about is the FILTERING material. It has nothing to do with whether the manufacturer uses anti-flow-back valves, or internal restrictors, a sturdy shell or anything else...just the filtering material.

And, yes..we frequently see these quicky lube place oil filters leaking on customer vehicles. They go to these places...get their oil changed, then when they get leaks, they come to the dealers and want their oil leak fixed....hmmmm.

The one lesson that I have learned is...just how much am I REALLY saving by buying an aftermarket filter?
 
unclearty said:


The one lesson that I have learned is...just how much am I REALLY saving by buying an aftermarket filter?
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Shouldn't that read "just how much am I REALLY saving by buying a cheap aftermarket filter?" Some of the higher quality aftermarket filters are actually more expensive than most OEM filters.



There are only 4 filters I will use on any of my cars, K&N, Mobil1, Purolator or Motorcraft.
 
I have used and continue to use fram filters in my acura integra gsr, subaru wrx and mazda rx7. They have given me no problems and they work just fine. I am interested to find out how people here who are not engineers can really rate an oil filter personally. Most just parrot the knize web page and no other info. There is a lot of junk on the internet (elvis sightings, 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc...) so I need mre than one web page to work with. any time filters come into discussion, this page pops up. NOTHING ELSE. Find some more sources before continually bashing that brand. If you come up with some real technical data by engineers, I will be glad to hear it. BTW, this is not directed at anyone personally, but I go to a couple of car pages and other forums as well, and everyone cites this page ad infinitum. I believe that most of these people don't really know what they are talking about, so I withold judgement on filter design till I can have some credible information. I am sure that there is a real SAE paper out there discussing this topic.
 
I know what you mean about there being that one page. I have looked many times and that is really the only one out there. That is why I got curious and did my own comparison.



Have you ever cut a Fram filter open?
 
Fram used to be owned by Allied Signal and now Honeywell Corp.

When I used to work in the Aftermarket Parts business in 1997 I had the opportunity to visit the Wix plant in Gastonia NC. (If you ever get a chance to check out do so!!)I spent 3 days in their 2 plants. They had close to 300 filters cut open and on display. We were also able to perform pressure test on several brands of filters to come to our own conclusions.

The funny thing that I noticed was at the end of the line they had 6 massive cabinets... like large tool boxes.. with approx 20 drawers in each cabinet. open the drawers and you found rubber stamp plates for WIX, NAPA, Carquest, Kubota, Motorcraft, Johnson Marine, Honda, Yanmar, Perkins, Baldwin etc etc..

They explained that all filter manufacturers contract specific part #'s for specific clients and are made to client specs.

If GM contracts to WIX to make a certain filter, then all aftermarket companies will buy blanks and label and package themselves until the patent rights are set free.

So in bashing one brand you may actually be bashing the brand of your choice.

As far as the Mobile 1 high dollar filters.. they had the exact innards that their cheapo filter had.... they just beefed up the baseplate 4ozs and added a larger spring....to give it a heavier feeling(quality??) not that they had worse innards than the Frams(cardboard ends and a string tied around element to keep in place??



Just my observation from being there and seeing with my own 2 eyes!



I1:)
 
I know that the K&N filter is high quality, and made for higher rpm usage knowing their customers are more into racing, and more conscious of changing their oil. Some of the other brands are made for people who drive from point a to point b and want to do it cheaply. The factory filter is usually my first choice in any situation, after that I just go with a big name such as Mobil one or K&N. I avoid fram just because its a low dollar filter and although it may do just as good of a job, I feel better knowing didnt put the cheapest filter I could find in the car.
 
Inspector1 said:


As far as the Mobile 1 high dollar filters.. they had the exact innards that their cheapo filter had.... they just beefed up the baseplate 4ozs and added a larger spring....to give it a heavier feeling(quality??) not that they had worse innards than the Frams(cardboard ends and a string tied around element to keep in place??



Just my observation from being there and seeing with my own 2 eyes!



I1:)
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Kinda confused by this statement as Mobil only has one filter and that is the Mobil1 :nixweiss Maybe you mean the Mobil1 has similar innards as the Wix??? I may get one just to compare for myself. A large part of the cost of the Mobil1 filter is the brand name.
 
my friend had a fram blow out on him, or so i've been told. personally, i've used fram oil filters and never had a problem. yet, just hearing that a fram oil filter *did* blow out, i switched to motorcraft oil filters because 1) they were cheaper, 2) they weren't known for breaking/blowing out, and 3) i didn't want that the risk of the oil filter blowing out on me.
 
You can use an old military can opener to look inside an oil filter. Its standard procedure on aircraft oil filters, they see a tool you can find the makes cutting the filter open really easy.



I second that bobistheoilguy.com website, you think you know detailing till you find Autotopia, you think you know oil till you find bobistheoilguy.com
 
I won't use Fram any more after what I've read and now having one recently fail on me (drainback valve was made out of cardboard and was laying on the filter housing when I removed the filter). But the other oil filter companies need to start using that textured finish that Fram uses now, it is awesome!
 
I've done a lot of research for my teg and have come up with OEM is my best bet. I bought 6 of em at once at a discount so I'm all set for a while.



A few others I have heard excellent things about are:



-Mobil 1

-Bosch

-K&N
 
rjstaaf said:
Kinda confused by this statement as Mobil only has one filter and that is the Mobil1 :nixweiss Maybe you mean the Mobil1 has similar innards as the Wix??? I may get one just to compare for myself. A large part of the cost of the Mobil1 filter is the brand name.
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Mobil Corp I believe started making the mobil1 filters in late 96 -97

They had been making plain mobil filters prior... the comparison was to their previous filter just a mobil not mobil1.. They discontinued their baseline filters when the M1's came out.

Yes and you are correct a large part of the cost is brand recognition.



Sorry for the confusion......



I1:)
 
I had problems with Fram filters leaking oil. When i changed my oil the "sure grip" was soaked in oil. I guess the oil soaked through the cardboard. I now usually buy the Powerflo (cheaper Purloator) filters at R&S, they occasionally have them on sale for $1.99.
 
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