Seeking advice on problems with new paint

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velobard

New member
I got my car back from the body shop a couple days ago and now I'm trying to deal with a couple challenges on the new paint. First of all, they buffed it out and left obvious swirls...the only buffer I saw in their shop was a rotary with a wool pad. Second, the day after I got the car home I had to park outside for awhile and it got a couple bird bombs. After I found them I washed the whole car with QEW (it needed it anyway), then went over the spots some with #80, and used some Mequiars Step 1 Paint Cleaner and buffed some more with #80. I finally went out and bought a PC at Lowes last night. I have a few foam pads I'd been using with my old Bosch RO, but I don't have a proper backing plate, so I just put some Velcro on the sanding plate that came with the PC.



So far, I'm having very minimal results on the swirls and the bird etching is still a little visible. I've been going over and over the same part of the hood with #80 using a buffing pad. It's a yellow Speedy Foam pad from S.M. Arnold, 50 ppi with a convoluted surface. I have a couple polishing pads and one Tuffer Buffer 4-ply wool pad I've never had nerve to take out of the package and try, even with my old Bosch.



As far as products, I have the #80 I've been using, plus some 3M SMR, Scratch-X, Mequiars Step 2 System Polish, some Menzerna P0106FF, and a sample of SSR2.



I'm a real novice with the PC and so far I'm having trouble telling whether I'm just not taking out the old swirls or if I'm inducing new scratches along the way. I suspect my situation might call for a slightly more aggressive polish. Any recommendations? I gotta admit, I wish there was someone in SW Missouri that could give me a decent demo or advice, but I'm not holding my breath on that.
 
Hmm, seems like you haven't got any bites. I have one of those SM Arnold Yellow pads and they are not buffing pads but cutting pads.



You will need to follow your work with another pad (polishing) after using it to clean up any swirls it may leave.



There are lots of how-to's on using the PC here search a little bit and you'll find them, I don't use mine so I can't be of much help there, but I do know a couple of things.



1) Heat induced polishes don't work as well with a PC cause it doesn't make as much heat as a rotary.



2) You need to apply pressure to the machine head when working the polish in to get optimal results.



I think once you get your technique down you'll be able to take care of these issues.
 
A few thoughts follow, hope something is useful.



Get a good backing plate before you do something you really regret ;)



I'm not familiar with the one you're using so I don't know how good/not it is. If MorBid says it's a cutting pad, that's good enough for me! I'd get some good polishing pads, like the LC white or the Meguiar's 8006.



Don't use the wool pad with the PC. It's absolutely not what you'd want to use for this job anyhow.



The Deep Crystal products (both step 1 and 2) are nonabrasive and thus won't remove any marring. The step 2 stuff will be good to use as a LSP on the fresh paint though.



Sometimes fresh paint is too soft for #80, nothing you can do except use a milder product (but one that's still abrasive).



You might try doing a small area by hand using the Scratch-X and/or the #80 and see what happens. Ditto with the Menzerna and the SSR 2 only I'd use the PC with those. But get a good backing plate and some pads first.



By inspecting before, during, and after your work you oughta be able to determine if you're dealing with old or new marring, especially when doing a test spot by hand. Just pick some circular/elliptical marring to work on, rub the product in one direction front/back and see if there's fresh/new marring in that direction, old marring in the circular/elliptical direction, more/less of either, etc.

Some stuff is too deep to take out either because a) it'd involve removing too much paint, or b) it'd take forever to do it without a rotary. The bird etching might be in this category.
 
Thanks for the help! After I posted here I put away my stuff and decided to just wait and bide my time until I could get the right stuff for the job. Tomorrow I guess I'll place an order for a backing plate and a few more pads. Are you guys saying I'd be better off with a cutting pad or a buffing pad....how agressive do I dare to get with my choice of pad? Or maybe just get the Sonus DAS pad kit, or the Swirlbuster. Or are you saying that considering how new my paint is that I should just stick to polishing pads? I have a Mequiars W9000 and can buy another one or two of those locally in the morning if that's the best route.



I feel like an idiot here. I've been a fairly active member of this forum for several months, but now that I finally got a PC I'm a complete noob all over again. I even had reasonable success getting rid of most of the scratches on my '90 Olds using my Bosch, but that car's light non-metallic gray and this Chrysler is dark red metallic with new paint and it's a very different beast.



Morbid, what do you mean by 'heat-induced polishes'? Which ones fall into this category? What if I use SSR 2.5, follow with SSR 2, then finish with #80? I'll also be ordering some #5 to use after I get the paint in satisfactory shape.
 
You don't need a really aggressive pad to remove swirls (unless they are severe) but I'm not saying you can't use one if needed.



Whoever just painted your car polished out the wetsanding scratches with a Rotary machine and a wool pad, you can't get more aggressive than that. I paint cars and have done the same thing a day or two after painting them (and I don't have the means to bake the finish, just air dried).



A cutting pad cuts and a polishing pad polishes. Doesn't make a difference who makes 'em there is no getting around that. Now some pads work better with an orbital than a rotary I'll give you that.



You will not remove wool pad marring with a polishing pad, you'll need cutting (light should do it). Now the light cut pad may leave some marring of it's own, then you can use a polishing pad to clean that up.



You use the pad/polish combination required to get the job done, but the more aggressive the pad the more chance it's going to leave something that will need to be addressed with a less aggressive pad. That's the idea behind paint correction with polishing tools, you take out marring but will induce some finer marring that can be removed with the next step easily.



Alot of Polishes were made to be used with a Rotary machine and as such require the heat it generates from the high rpms to "break down". All Polishes need to "break down" in order to work. I've never used any of those products but if they say they can be used with an orbital machine or by hand then your all set.



Well seems like you've been skating by with the light colored cars as they don't show marring like Black and Red cars. So you've got a little work to do. Follow Accumlators advice and keep your experience from before in mind and you'll get these problems solved.
 
Thanks. I just wanted to be sure the polishes by Poorboys, Sonus, etc didn't fall into the "heat-induced" category. I couldn't imagine they did considering all the posts I've read here since last year. I'll decide which online place has the best combination of what I need and place an order tomorrow. As much as I want to hurry and do this while the paint is fresh, I better just wait for the right supplies. If I'd realized how the car was going to look when I got it back I would have had everything waiting. The most disgusting part is a spot toward the back of the hood where it's obvious some dust got under the clearcoat, but I know I can't do anything about that. :hairpull
 
Sure you can, take it back and show them the defect in the paint job (which it is) and have them correct it.



You won't be able to polish something like that out, it'll need to be wetsanded, which in turn needs to be buffed out again.
 
That's the big downside of having an old friend of the family do the work...it's a lot more awkward to lean on them to correct stuff. I will point it out when I see him in a few days though.
 
velobard- Yeah, it can be tricky when dealing with people you know, but this shouldn't be a huge issue- they screwed up (and this is a common screw up, not a biggie) so they fix it. The sooner they do it the better it'll probably turn out. It's just a spot-repair so they shouldn't sweat it.



Study up on pads. There are basically four types for the PC- cutting (like you used), light cutting (milder often called "orange pads"), polishing (the 8006 ones I recommended), and finishing (the 9006) which are very, very mild and are often too soft for polishing out marring.



For the final polishing step, the #80 on a polishing pad (8006, not the softer 9006) will usually work great.
 
Well, I went back to the body shop today to have them fine tune the alignment on the trunk. That went reasonably well, but when I pointed out the problem with the dust under the clear coat he just said there's nothing he can do about it, that's it's under about $150 worth of clear coat. (*Sigh*) I did get him to give me the bit of paint that's left in the can to use for touch-ups. There's at least several ounces and I know it'll match, but of course touch-ups on metallic red are a challenge in the best of conditions. Ah well, lessons learned. First, probably best not to have a 'friend' do the work in case you're gonna have to lean on 'em to fix problems. Second, if ya go to a good ol' country boy for stuff, you're gonna get a good ol' country boys standard of excellence. It's not all that bad, but largely thanks to this site I can point to a few things I'd definitely be screaming about if anyone else had done the work. He's talking about how he thinks it came out "exceptionally well", but I'm busy noticing things like the slight paint mismatch on the painted panels (not bad, but I can notice it in the right light), the still-not-perfect trunk alignment, the dust under the paint.



In all fairness, he was decent with me about price, though that was not the primary motivation in going to him....I honestly thought that with his 50+ years of body experience I could expect a higher level of quality. I had a $500 deductable, and he only charged me $300 PLUS he repainted the hood at my request (covered repairs were only on the rear of the car) because the paint chips bothered me. I'll live with it and next time I'll be pickier. I'm just glad it still looks nice enough that I can take pride in it's appearance, even if my discriminating eye can pick out a few minor flaw that most people probably wouldn't even notice.



On another note, my uncle stopped by the house today while we were doing a little work on my old beater, a 1990 Olds. This is a car my dad bought new (yes, my father's Oldsmobile) and he's seen it many times, but not since I did a poassable exterior detail on it a few months ago. As soon as he saw it he asked if I'd had it repainted. I didn't even own my PC when I did that car, most of the improvement came from a thorough going over with clay and a layer of wax. Today, quite honestly, it needed a wash but it still looked so much nicer that he couldn't believe it was the same paint. It's nice to have someone notice my efforts. :cool:
 
Oh well I guess you live and learn. Fact of the matter is he could've wetsanded the dust nibs out, any painter worth the price of his gun knows that. The cost of the Clear Coat is irrelevant to you.



Anywho, you seem satified with your endeavor. At least it's settled and off your mind.
 
Is this something I'd dare to try on my own, even though it's beneath the clear?



I wouldn't exactly say I'm altogether satisfied, I'm trying to just write this one off as a lesson and not let it eat at me.
 
velobard said:
I wouldn't exactly say I'm altogether satisfied, I'm trying to just write this one off as a lesson and not let it eat at me.
Click to expand...



NO WAY would I consider trying to fix the dust...it'd require more paintwork to get perfect and you'll be right back dealing with that [stuff] all over again.



I'd live with the imperfections and call it a lesson learned. FWIW, I finally decided to just live with imperfections on my S8 after the shop redid it numerous times, and they're a *highly* regarded place too :rolleyes: You roll the dice when you have paintwork done and I'd say you've been through enough, all things considered.



Sounds like you're leaning towards living with it anyhow :xyxthumbs Life is short....
 
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