seeing swirls without the sun

jason rawls

jason rawls

Weekend Warrior
Here's a question for you mobile guys:



How do you work on swirl removal outside when the sun isn't out? Will a good halogen light work or do you have to be in the garage with the lights out in order to see them with a light?
 
It is really tuff being mobile and finding out if the car is swirled in the shade. What i tend to do is ask the customer some questions about the vehcile to get the background on it. I have never had a bad experience with always using a corrective buff on all dark colored cars that consisted of DACP or ssr 2.5
 
Certain types of surface marring (specifically, rotary-holograms) will *only* show up in natural sunlight. If I can't pull it outside/into the sun to check, I might even assume it has them and I use the PC/Cyclo with the appropriate product to remove 'em.



But any other marring (including very light swirls) can be seen under the right artificial light. Halogens work well for many people, but for me, the most unforgiving light is high-wattage incandescent. A regular "old fashioned" trouble-light can work fine- just move it around while inspecting the finish from various angles. There'll be one combination of light position and viewing angle that'll make every little flaw visible. WIth halogens, incandescents, or anything else, it's finding that one combination that makes the difference. Just pointing a light at the vehicle usually won't reveal much.



Another trick is to use a flashlight in an otherwise darkened garage.
 
Accumulator said:
Certain types of surface marring (specifically, rotary-holograms) will *only* show up in natural sunlight.
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Ive noticed if im detailing at night i can see swirls under street lamps, so i dont see how they will only show up in natural light. If i can ill get some night pics to see if we are talking about the same thing.
 
6']['9- I was referring to the faint, "rainbow-effect" holograms caused by rotary work. These will only show up in sunlight, not sure why. Mike Phillips has tried every artificial light source you can imagine, but nothing he or I have tried shows holograms except sunlight.



The sort of stuff you see under streetlights will show up in an otherwise dark garage if you use the right incandescent lighting (sometimes halogens will show it too). But at night you can't see true "holograms". "Swirls" are another type of marring, and are in some ways easier to deal with.
 
yeah the holograms produced by a rotory are the ones im seeing at night. They are not as obvious as in the day but if you move in certain directions you can see them under those orange looking street lamps. The spiderwebs you can also see, but i have a harder time looking at haze marks at night as opposed to looking at buffer swirls (holograms)
 
6']['9- OK, that's interesting. I'll have to remember that...that's the first time I've heard of somebody seeing them under artificial light. Thanks for clarifying for me.



Yeah, it's really something how some defects just leap out at you under certain lighting conditions and then are so hard to find under others.
 
Accumulator said:
6']['9- I was referring to the faint, "rainbow-effect" holograms caused by rotary work. These will only show up in sunlight, not sure why. Mike Phillips has tried every artificial light source you can imagine, but nothing he or I have tried shows holograms except sunlight.
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That's very strange because I saw my first rotary holograms at night under a spotlight type light I have on the outside of my garage. I am 100% sure it was holograms. I didn't notice them during the daylight and was shocked :scared what I saw at night under that spotlight, it was amazing. I told the owner some one took a rotary to that hood and left nasty holograms but I removed them during your detail. She thanked me then proceeded to say yes the hood was recently replaced as she was in accident. The body repair shop guy told her how they had to remove orange peel.:o This was a BMW 325i dark blue in color.
 
doublel- Well, when you guys say you see holograms at night I'm sure not gonna call you liars :D I'd just never seen them except in bright sunlight and Mike's experience mirrored mine- live and learn! I guess I'm just glad I've hardly ever had to deal with holograms period (I truly sympathize with you pros, who have to fix other people's mistakes all the time!). I *will* say that looking for marring of *any* type at night under certain lighting can be great, it's basically what I do here in the shop with the high-wattage incandescents. Even my halogens seem forgiving compared to those.



I'm wondering if Mike will see this thread...he found that even his "wall of lights" didn't show holograms. But there are a lot of different types of lights out there these days and I guess that some of the newer ones show stuff that older sodium/metal halide/etc. ones didn't. As I said, live and learn- I'll revise my ideas about "what lighting you can see holograms under".
 
Are holograms just naturally produced when using a rotary on the paint or can it be avoided. I was detailing a friend's truck a few weeks ago and noticed after applying from Menzerna IP with a rotary a yellow pad that it appeared to have some hologram effect when the sun reflected on the paint surface. 4 steps later with the cyclo and it wasn't there, but i feel weary about using a rotary even at the low speeds that are safe. Any comments on this issue anyone??



Nick
 
Nickshades said:
Are holograms just naturally produced when using a rotary on the paint or can it be avoided. I was detailing a friend's truck a few weeks ago and noticed after applying from Menzerna IP with a rotary a yellow pad that it appeared to have some hologram effect when the sun reflected on the paint surface. 4 steps later with the cyclo and it wasn't there, but i feel weary about using a rotary even at the low speeds that are safe. Any comments on this issue anyone??



Nick
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Wrong thread :nixweiss oh well. As long as you dont burn the paint or clear some minor swirls are going to be unavoidable. so go to your next step i.e. FP and a polishing pad @ 1100 then follow up with your cyclo and what ever else it is you use no need to be weary even at slow speeds. Now at fast speeds id be weary. you might want to start a new thread and see what kind of responses you get.
 
I didn't mean to intrude on this thread...i just figured it was pertinent to holograms. Sorry for posting. I had a thread started about two weeks ago and didn't get any feedback so i thought to include it in here. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Nick
 
Nickshades said:
I didn't mean to intrude on this thread...i just figured it was pertinent to holograms. Sorry for posting. I had a thread started about two weeks ago and didn't get any feedback so i thought to include it in here. Thanks for your suggestion though.



Nick
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Thats ok Dont worry it happens to me too :( oh well i think i gave you some good info but if you do a search on holograms/rotory you'll find some good info. I find that a pc can and does clean up any light swirls left from a rotory, just make sure you dont go too deep on the rotory.
 
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