ShakingHorizons
New member
Yes, he applied touch up. He said he did it to "help my efficiency".
Scratches down to primer help!
- Thread starter ShakingHorizons
- Start date
Accumulator
Well-known member
ShakingHorizons- Sheesh, sorry you`re having to deal with this/him.
I`d at least tell him you have to charge extra to bring it back to pre-DIY condition, and I`d *very nicely* point out something like "gee, it`s a lot harder than one might think, huh?".
I`d at least tell him you have to charge extra to bring it back to pre-DIY condition, and I`d *very nicely* point out something like "gee, it`s a lot harder than one might think, huh?".
Stokdgs
dansautodetailing.com
Shaking Horizons -
Sorry this had to happen to you...
I look at the pics and the touch up paint looks like it doesn`t match perfectly, so no matter what you do, short of sanding it all out and hopefully then getting a perfect match paint and applying it perfectly just inside the damaged areas, and then all the work after it dries to hopefully get it all level and polished, this is never going to come out perfectly..
There is 1 great guy on this Forum lately - he goes by - Richy - from Canada.. He has years of experience touching up scratches and makes them go away pretty darn good..
See if you can PM him and show him the pics and get his take, ok ?
Years ago, well even a decade ago, he was taking on scratches and applying the paint in really thin coats with the end of a pointed toothpick even, in layers with time to dry, etc.., and it worked great for him..
He was just on here with a vehicle he did - see if you can PM him.. He is really a great guy..
Good Luck ,
Dan F
Sorry this had to happen to you...
I look at the pics and the touch up paint looks like it doesn`t match perfectly, so no matter what you do, short of sanding it all out and hopefully then getting a perfect match paint and applying it perfectly just inside the damaged areas, and then all the work after it dries to hopefully get it all level and polished, this is never going to come out perfectly..
There is 1 great guy on this Forum lately - he goes by - Richy - from Canada.. He has years of experience touching up scratches and makes them go away pretty darn good..
See if you can PM him and show him the pics and get his take, ok ?
Years ago, well even a decade ago, he was taking on scratches and applying the paint in really thin coats with the end of a pointed toothpick even, in layers with time to dry, etc.., and it worked great for him..
He was just on here with a vehicle he did - see if you can PM him.. He is really a great guy..
Good Luck ,
Dan F
Accumulator
Well-known member
I`d remove old touchup paint with something like Langka (some would use lacquer thinner) rather than using abrasion. I probably use the Langka more for that than for leveling.
richy
New member
Wow, you might have more of a problem with the owner than you do with his bloody paint! Yes, key marks can be eliminated at best or at least vastly improved on depending on a few things:
1) Colour
2) Location
3) Surrounding area paint thickness
4) Time available to do the job
Just to give you an idea of what I do and how I do them, here are a couple of threads where I have done key repairs, one of which was made a "sticky" at AG:
Key Repair-Step by Step Procedure
Here`s one where a guy drove his Q7 from Chicago (5 hours away) to see me b/c everyone in his area told him it couldn`t be done and he didn`t want 1/2 of his new vehicle painted (can`t blame him-everyone would think it was hit by a train, LOL):
Key Repair + Fellow AutoGeek = Huge Pressure
Here`s an example where the very light colour made it hard to make the scratch disappear as much as I would have liked. The customer was happy, but I had hoped for a better result:
2007 Avalanche: keyed twice and faded trim
So, as I have hopefully pointed out, some results are better than others. Let`s discuss the variables I mentioned (colour, location, surrounding area and time).
Colour: Solid colours will offer the best chance for the touch up to "blend in". Metallics are the hardest as they are shot so uniformly out of a paint gun at the factory, that when in a bottle of touch up paint, you`ll be very hard pressed to get the same saturation level of the metallic content as what`s on the paint. Lighter colours are harder to match than darker colours.
Location: To do the very best job, you need to wet sand. This was something I was trained in probably 15 years ago by a restoration shop. I see Mike Phillips has introduced a thread asking people whether they`d like to learn it with an overwhelming number of positive responses. Wet sanding is a double edged sword: It can be a great tool or a great weapon of destruction...depends on how it`s used. Back to location. The paint is always thinnest at the edges and when crossing body lines so to try to wet sand in those locations is almost a guarantee of striking through the clear which then dictates a trip to the body shop.
Surrounding Area: Let`s say you`ve got a key scratch right in the middle of a panel (which looks like what you`ve got for the most part). Green light, right? Not necessarily. If you`re going to wet sand and don`t own a paint thickness gauge, once again you`ve almost guaranteed yourself a trip to the body shop. It`s like playing Russian Roulette. If you don`t have enough clear/paint in the surrounding area, DO NOT EVEN PASS GO...he must go to a body shop. Know your limitations, respect them and live within them.
Time available: The touch up paint needs at least 12 hours to cure before you should start wet sanding. If he`s putting time constraints on you, he needs to piss off. It takes the time it takes. Period. Don`t have the time? Go to a body shop. That`s non-negotiable.
As far as practical pointers on how to do it, refer to the first link I provided. I tried to make it a step by step guide. I will offer this last bit of advice to you. This is more big leagues detailing. If you don`t have the tools, confidence or ability to try this job: don`t do it. Even if you do, I STRONGLY suggest you get a waiver from him in writing excusing you of any liability if it still ends up needing to go to the paint shop. He`ll still owe you $ for your time trying to help him, so it`ll cost him even more in the long run.
Hope that helps.
Rich
...and thanks Dan for the shout out.
1) Colour
2) Location
3) Surrounding area paint thickness
4) Time available to do the job
Just to give you an idea of what I do and how I do them, here are a couple of threads where I have done key repairs, one of which was made a "sticky" at AG:
Key Repair-Step by Step Procedure
Here`s one where a guy drove his Q7 from Chicago (5 hours away) to see me b/c everyone in his area told him it couldn`t be done and he didn`t want 1/2 of his new vehicle painted (can`t blame him-everyone would think it was hit by a train, LOL):
Key Repair + Fellow AutoGeek = Huge Pressure
Here`s an example where the very light colour made it hard to make the scratch disappear as much as I would have liked. The customer was happy, but I had hoped for a better result:
2007 Avalanche: keyed twice and faded trim
So, as I have hopefully pointed out, some results are better than others. Let`s discuss the variables I mentioned (colour, location, surrounding area and time).
Colour: Solid colours will offer the best chance for the touch up to "blend in". Metallics are the hardest as they are shot so uniformly out of a paint gun at the factory, that when in a bottle of touch up paint, you`ll be very hard pressed to get the same saturation level of the metallic content as what`s on the paint. Lighter colours are harder to match than darker colours.
Location: To do the very best job, you need to wet sand. This was something I was trained in probably 15 years ago by a restoration shop. I see Mike Phillips has introduced a thread asking people whether they`d like to learn it with an overwhelming number of positive responses. Wet sanding is a double edged sword: It can be a great tool or a great weapon of destruction...depends on how it`s used. Back to location. The paint is always thinnest at the edges and when crossing body lines so to try to wet sand in those locations is almost a guarantee of striking through the clear which then dictates a trip to the body shop.
Surrounding Area: Let`s say you`ve got a key scratch right in the middle of a panel (which looks like what you`ve got for the most part). Green light, right? Not necessarily. If you`re going to wet sand and don`t own a paint thickness gauge, once again you`ve almost guaranteed yourself a trip to the body shop. It`s like playing Russian Roulette. If you don`t have enough clear/paint in the surrounding area, DO NOT EVEN PASS GO...he must go to a body shop. Know your limitations, respect them and live within them.
Time available: The touch up paint needs at least 12 hours to cure before you should start wet sanding. If he`s putting time constraints on you, he needs to piss off. It takes the time it takes. Period. Don`t have the time? Go to a body shop. That`s non-negotiable.
As far as practical pointers on how to do it, refer to the first link I provided. I tried to make it a step by step guide. I will offer this last bit of advice to you. This is more big leagues detailing. If you don`t have the tools, confidence or ability to try this job: don`t do it. Even if you do, I STRONGLY suggest you get a waiver from him in writing excusing you of any liability if it still ends up needing to go to the paint shop. He`ll still owe you $ for your time trying to help him, so it`ll cost him even more in the long run.
Hope that helps.
Rich
...and thanks Dan for the shout out.
rlmccarty2000
Active member
His "help" just cost you time which equals money. If it was me I would tell him the truth and drop the whole thing. It looks like you just have a customer that does not respect you enough to listen to an expert. One of my favorite sayings is "you can`t fix stupid" and I thing your customer fits this saying. Politely decline to work on his vehicle and move on to the next. It is just not worth the aggravation.
ShakingHorizons
New member
I spoke with the customer last night and told him that I will not be touching any of the work that he has performed. I offered a basic detail ONLY and he accepted. Having dealt with this type of issue in the past, I also required him to bring half the money before I start.
Accumulator
Well-known member
ShakingHorizons- Hope that works out OK for both of you..if nothing else you`ll get a better feel for this particular customer.
ShakingHorizons
New member
Rich - thank you for the links and the lengthy reply. As you can see in my above post, I told the customer last night "no way am I touching this". Now after reading your post, I might even add in a "hell no" to that statement. I`m not comfortable wet sanding and being a weekend warrior, I just don`t have the time to learn this particular skill.
I appreciate the replies of everyone in this thread! I was VERY hesitant to work on it to begin with because of my unfamiliarity with scratches down to primer, but everyone here has agreed with everything my brain was telling me.
:autopia:
ShakingHorizons
New member
The only reason I even gave this car a second look is because his wife contacted me about doing a full correction on her black is250. I have about a dozen is250/isf`s under my belt in the last couple months and am familiar with what is takes to make them look better than factory. I have some friends in the local Lexus club that have been referring my work or have been asked about who does their cars. I`m not looking to make this an every weekend job, but I do like being to assist people and I enjoy doing it!