S100 no longer P21s?

J

JUNNIEIV

New member
"Dear Sir,

We do not make any products especially for Harley- Davidson. There are some similarities between our S100 products and our P21S Products, but most of the formulations are different on each line. Still many of the S100 items can be used on automobiles but it is not recommended.The composition of S100 is designed for occasional use and is not intended for use on automobiles. Hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards

P21S Customer Service."





(Copied this email response from someone who posted it on another msg board).



Um, anyone know what to make of this? I heard that this is true only now (ie, they were the same until they noticed people buying s100 instead of p21s I guess) whereas before they were both same thing.
 
Still many of the S100 items can be used on automobiles but it is not recommended.The composition of S100 is designed for occasional use and is not intended for use on automobiles.



This is straight from their booklet that comes with S100:



Q: Can I use S100 Cleanser and Paste Wax on my car or truck?



A: Sure - and you'll be glad you did!



Either that person who wrote to you is flat out a liar or they are lying in their booklets. I wonder which it is?



You might want to write them back and ask who is lying.
 
Maybe its just a matter of durability? S100 for light use and P21S for more daily use? :nixweiss I'd follow Scott's advice on this one. Someone isn't really square on what the deal is.
 
It's not just p21s. It seems as though all manufacturers are confused about thier products. Trying to get a consistent answer from 3M, meguiars etc is almost impossible.



As for the s100, go ahead and use it. p21s is full of it! They just want you to spend more money. Countless people here have used s100 products with no detrimental effect on their cars.



When the formulation of s100 changes I'm sure we will know about it. P21S will want us to know so that we start buying the more expensive stuff.



They'll probably change the packaging, and add the words, "New and Improved Formulation!"



LOL!!



The power of the all mighty dollar!
 
I order a can of S100 today from the bike shop around the corner from where I live, Biker Stuff . I asked if the formula was changing and if I could use s100 on a car the guy said: He was not sure on the formula and yes to using on a car.



Called Wilco a distributor for P21s and S100 locally. Asked the rep the same questions. To the questions I asked I got the following answers:

Has not heard of any change in the formula for S100, but products are updated and improved without notice a lot of times.

He did not see a problem with using S100 on a car, because it is the same as P21S, except maybe for more resistance to gas spills.



I asked Wilco rep how much he asked where I live and would not sell me S100 products because I live locally. He recommend I go to a local dealer. Further he did not want me to go to the place where I did because the store I bought from does not order from Wilco. I can purchase P21S and Zymol products from Wilco.



Eric
 
I don't understand this " the sky is falling" attitude toward S100. You can buy P21S any day for $20-$23....only $5-$8 more than S100 for what is arguably the best Carnauba available.



No one seems to have an issue with Souveran at $70, but $23 for P21S is an issue ?? I don't get it.



Bill :nixweiss
 
Bill in Atlanta said:
I don't understand this " the sky is falling" attitude toward S100. You can buy P21S any day for $20-$23....only $5-$8 more than S100 for what is arguably the best Carnauba available.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you've heard the term "Don't sweat the small stuff". Obviously Autopians do sweat the small stuff. :p
 
Bill in Atlanta said:
I don't understand this " the sky is falling" attitude toward S100. You can buy P21S any day for $20-$23....only $5-$8 more than S100 for what is arguably the best Carnauba available.



No one seems to have an issue with Souveran at $70, but $23 for P21S is an issue ?? I don't get it.



Bill :nixweiss
Click to expand...



Well said. I could not agree more.



In the past Autopians have got wound up and all a-twitter over.....



*Blitz

*Souveran vs. Zymol vs. all other carnaubas

*Turtle Wax Tire Gel

*"old" Zaino vs. "new" Zaino

*ZFX

*Blackfire

*Blackfire vs. Platinum

*"old" Blackfire vs. "new" Blackfire



I could go on................ it just says more about the kind of people Autopians are more than it says anything about the products. Frankly, I don't think anyone really knows what the differences are between S100 and P21S so calling someone a liar is a bit over the top, if ya ask me. Gossip, speculation, innuendo, hearsay, and flat out BS tends to get some people a little more twisted and crazed than they should be.
 
I see two issues. One is marketing. One of the main benefits of Autopia is to help cut through the hype. I believe thats why we grow so close to each other because we learn to respect each other views concerning products over the published advertising.



The other is S100. We like S100 because it is easy to use and provides a great shine. When you find a product you like ( and I learned of S100 here) you dont want to lose it. On ther other hand if they do replace S100 we will be the first to try the replacement. It just a love of the art.



Happy detailing
 
Manufacturers do this ALL THE TIME. For example, here in Southern California we have a large population of people from Latin American countries, chiefly Mexico.



They don't sell Tide in Mexico. If they did, Procter & Gamble would have to do one of two things:



(a) charge U.S. prices for it. This would immediately destroy the marketability of Tide in Mexico, because the average family cannot afford to pay U.S. prices for consumer goods.



(b) sell it at sharply reduced prices. If they did this, Mexicans would buy Tide, but so would Americans. Many people in SoCal take a trip down to Mexico every so often. If the bottle of Tide that we pay $4.99 for sold for $1.50 down there, you know what would happen- people would buy 30-40 bottles of Tide for their friends and family every time they went to Mexico, thereby saving themselves a considerable amount, but depriving Proctor & Gamble of its profits. Worse yet, retail stores would get in on the action- the corner store would buy 10-15 cases of Tide, at sharply reduced Mexican prices, and would resell them here at U.S. prices for a healthy increased profit. This is known as dealing in "grey market" goods.



This sort of thing is bad enough when it comes to Tide, but there is a limit on how much Tide will find its way accross the border- after all, it's big and bulky. But the problem gets even worse with small, high-profit items like razor blades, DVD's, etc.



The way that companies respond to this is by packaging the same product under different brand names. For example, in Mexico, Tide is called "Ace." It's EXACTLY the same product; at factories which produce both kinds of detergent, they simply switch bottles when it is time to produce Ace. The detergent doesn't change at all; it's just poured into Ace bottles instead of Tide bottles.



Here in SoCal, you can sometimes find Ace at the store for considerably less than Tide. If you do, you have found quite a bargain.



S100 is, so far as I can tell, exactly the same- FOR NOW. It's just P21S wax packaged in a different jar. Now, CMA has indicated that they will be changing the formula in the near future. If they do, it may well be a different wax. But for now, S100 is a bargain. There's nothing particularly unusual about this; a lot of companies do it.
 
Dude,

Very well said. This had been said numerous times on Autopia about manufactors using different names and packaging for the product on the inside.



I say enjoy the current S100/P21S while it last and then try the "new" S100, or use the P21S.





Eric
 
Bill in Atlanta said:
I don't understand this " the sky is falling" attitude toward S100. You can buy P21S any day for $20-$23....only $5-$8 more than S100 for what is arguably the best Carnauba available.



No one seems to have an issue with Souveran at $70, but $23 for P21S is an issue ?? I don't get it.



Bill :nixweiss
Click to expand...



My problem is not the price, S100 would be a bargain if it costs the same as P21S. What is a problem is P21S is hard to find (okay, impossible) to find locally, where I can drive 6-7 miles to a local Harley dealer, walk in, put $16 and change on the counter and walk out with a jar of S100. No shipping charges, no wait. If P21S were as easy to get, and S100 wasn't available, I wouldn't have a problem paying the extra $10.
 
Scottwax said:
My problem is not the price, S100 would be a bargain if it costs the same as P21S. What is a problem is P21S is hard to find (okay, impossible) to find locally, where I can drive 6-7 miles to a local Harley dealer, walk in, put $16 and change on the counter and walk out with a jar of S100. No shipping charges, no wait. If P21S were as easy to get, and S100 wasn't available, I wouldn't have a problem paying the extra $10.
Click to expand...



If you guys find P21s hard to find, i dont feel so hard done by when i costs me 20 dollars to ship it over here! I oreder two pots at a time to make it worth my while!
 
Dude said:
The way that companies respond to this is by packaging the same product under different brand names. For example, in Mexico, Tide is called "Ace." It's EXACTLY the same product; at factories which produce both kinds of detergent, they simply switch bottles when it is time to produce Ace. The detergent doesn't change at all; it's just poured into Ace bottles instead of Tide bottles.
Click to expand...



I agree! However, I don't think it is always the case.. For example Z2 & Z5 is similar but slightly different. Another example is California duster you find in Walmart. Also, viking used to have 2 different version of wash mitts. One with Cotton logo the other one without. Almost same packaging from same manufacture, but they ARE different. I'm not saying S100 & P21S are different because I don't know, but if they are slightly different in formulation then I wouldn't be too surprised either. ;)
 
like was stated earlier in the thread, S100 may have more resistance to gas spills. If so, big deal? cool beans in my book..



and bret - well said. Very well said. Its a phase we autopians are going through - we'll get over it just like all the others..... as more and better/different products appear we'll be just as picky about those. Its just our nature. I mean we're world class DETAILERS for a reason, right?? We pay close attention to the DETAILS of things. :xyxthumbs
 
CMA said in September that they were getting their last case of the old S100, and that beginning in October, it would be a new formulation.
 
Mage said:
"Dear Sir,

We do not make any products especially for Harley- Davidson. There are some similarities between our S100 products and our P21S Products, but most of the formulations are different on each line. Still many of the S100 items can be used on automobiles but it is not recommended.The composition of S100 is designed for occasional use and is not intended for use on automobiles. Hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards

P21S Customer Service."

(Copied this email response from someone who posted it on another msg board).
Click to expand...



Scottwax said:
Still many of the S100 items can be used on automobiles but it is not recommended.The composition of S100 is designed for occasional use and is not intended for use on automobiles.



This is straight from their booklet that comes with S100:



Q: Can I use S100 Cleanser and Paste Wax on my car or truck?



A: Sure - and you'll be glad you did!



Either that person who wrote to you is flat out a liar or they are lying in their booklets. I wonder which it is?



You might want to write them back and ask who is lying.
Click to expand...







Sorry to bring this up, but did someone come to a consensus on to the intended application of the product?



If I had a motorcycle product and said it was not intended for cars there would be significant reason (the car market is way bigger of course). If lack of durability is the reason, they could market it as a show wax.
 
actually i went to my local harley shop and they said they dont carry S100 because it strips the clear coat over time.... she told me to buy pigsnot. I walked out.
 
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