Rotary Scare Myth....busted!

[imported_advs1]

wow i used my rotary for the first time at 2000 and thought it was very slow?? maybe im just used to my flex. i am going to have to find an old panel to try a more aggressive polish and pad. but it will be on a practice panel or my friends car first LOL

 

[Scottwax]

I agree it isn't as easy to burn paint as some will lead you to believe but using a rotary takes a higher degree of concentration than a PC at all times. A momentary lapse is all it takes.

 

[imported_Picus]

Is the rotary scary? Not in my opinion. Is it safe? Like anything, when used properly it is (for the most paint).

Haha, glad to know I am not the only one that replaces words with random detailing words.

 

[joyriiide1113]

Wait till you start buffing a flat plastic bumper lip with a light cutting pad and a finicky polish. Then, when you go to wipe the product off, you have a mark that does not wanna come off, then you realize its a burn. AHH!



I just described my first burn after 3 years of rotory use. Happened to me 4 months ago. 3 years with no burns, then one day, boom! Ever since then, I hold am a little more humble and respectful when it comes to a rotory.

 

[Eisen Hulk]

What is the best method to prevent this from happening?

Wait till you start buffing a flat plastic bumper lip with a light cutting pad and a finicky polish. Then, when you go to wipe the product off, you have a mark that does not wanna come off, then you realize its a burn. AHH!



I just described my first burn after 3 years of rotory use. Happened to me 4 months ago. 3 years with no burns, then one day, boom! Ever since then, I hold am a little more humble and respectful when it comes to a rotory.

 

[imported_weekendwarrior]

A lot of times, I use the PC and 3" or 4" pads on plastic panels (bupers, side skirts, etc...).

 

[SuperBee364]

Yup, after 3 years of perfecting paint I finally burned my first car......:dig and it was pretty bad too.:wall



I've worked on some extremely expensive cars and done some extremely expensive detailing and thought I was on top of my game and then trashed the lower side skirt of an M3 by accident. It just happened, no bouncing, not much pressure, I was even being cautious but just the went from the wrong angle and next thing you know.... :help:



Lets just say humble pie doesn't taste great.

It's always the painted plastic or edges that get ya. And there's never any warning. You're buffing along, happy as hell, when BAM, it's done. Sure sorry, man.

 

[SuperBee364]

I used it on my moms hood which was significantly swirled. Began the machine at 900rpm just to get a feel for it then SLOWLY pushed it up to 1500 and I honestly was not even scared. The machine flowed so well, and it didn't even feel like it was going to fast. I bumped it up to 1800, kept it moving as well. I feel VERY comfortable with it after just one use. But, like everyone said I am expecting to burn through something at some point. Its a learning experience. I might just buy a practice panel and burn through it just to see what it feels like.

While that's not a *bad* idea, every paint is going to burn through at it's own rate. Some are much easier to burn through than others. If you want to do a practice burn through, do it on a *plastic* painted piece, not metal. Also see how quick the edges will go down to bare metal. It's scary. Plastic and edges are *much* scarier than hoods and body panels.

 

[SuperBee364]

What is the best method to prevent this from happening?

Slow RPM's, and a wool pad. Once again, I have to tout the white finishing wool. Using it instead of white LC foam is much safer on plastics. I *always* use it on bumpers. I just wish they made it in four inch size. If you are then going to do a jeweling pass, use a black/grey, blue, or red foam pad at 1k max rpm. I never exceed 1k rpm with a foam pad on plastic.

 

[joyriiide1113]

What is the best method to prevent this from happening?

On plastic bumpers I only use wool now. Foam generates too much heat. Sometimes, you might not even burn the paint but actually warp it...Looks like a big thumb print.



:shocked

 

[Eisen Hulk]

Thanks, Bee. That seems like VERY solid information. What about heavy correcting on plastic? Stick with the PFW, and still keep the RPM's low?



Sorry for the newb questions, but as guy who will be making the jump to a rotary, I want to make sure I have the "paper" knowledge down.

Slow RPM's, and a wool pad. Once again, I have to tout the white finishing wool. Using it instead of white LC foam is much safer on plastics. I *always* use it on bumpers. I just wish they made it in four inch size. If you are then going to do a jeweling pass, use a black/grey, blue, or red foam pad at 1k max rpm. I never exceed 1k rpm with a foam pad on plastic.

 

[Eliot Ness]

While that's not a *bad* idea, every paint is going to burn through at it's own rate. Some are much easier to burn through than others. If you want to do a practice burn through, do it on a *plastic* painted piece, not metal. Also see how quick the edges will go down to bare metal. It's scary. Plastic and edges are *much* scarier than hoods and body panels.

I agree 110% with that. I always hate to think of someone practicing on a junk panel that just happened to have hard or thick paint and then hitting a car with soft/thin paint and BAM. Practicing on a painted bumper piece is a very good idea, and that would be an area where a smaller wool pad would really pay for itself by generating less heat.



I don't need to do a lot of rotary work, but every time I pick that guy up I'm respectful of what it has the potential to do, both good and bad. When you loose that respect, become distracted, or too casual (think you mastered it after one hood), then that's when something is more than likely gonna happen.



Using a rotary isn't that hard, after all it isn't brain surgery, but it does take practice, knowledge, and skill to be come really proficient.

 

[SuperBee364]

Thanks, Bee. That seems like VERY solid information. What about heavy correcting on plastic? Stick with the PFW, and still keep the RPM's low?



Sorry for the newb questions, but as guy who will be making the jump to a rotary, I want to make sure I have the "paper" knowledge down.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that, man. That kind of attitude is exactly what *I* would be looking for in a detailer to work on my cars.



Yeah, PFW at slower RPM's and less pressure works well for major correction on plastics. Front plastic bumpers scare me to death. They usually always require major correction, which means lot's of applications, which means more opportunities for melting plastic.

I agree 110% with that. I always hate to think of someone practicing on a junk panel that just happened to have hard or thick paint and then hitting a car with soft/thin paint and BAM. Practicing on a painted bumper piece is a very good idea, and that would be an area where a smaller wool pad would really pay for itself by generating less heat.



I don't need to do a lot of rotary work, but every time I pick that guy up I'm respectful of what it has the potential to do, both good and bad. When you loose that respect, become distracted, or too casual (think you mastered it after one hood), then that's when something is more than likely gonna happen.



Using a rotary isn't that hard, after all it isn't brain surgery, but it does take practice, knowledge, and skill to be come really proficient.

Yeah, I've always thought that it's a bit silly how every youtube video shows burning paint through in the middle of a hood, and no examples of edge or plastic burn throughs.



Honestly, burning through paint in the middle of a hood or body panel is *the very least likely* type of damage to incur when using a rotary, yet it seems like everyone is *most likely* to do a "practice burn through" of this type of damage, which then results in a false sense of security.

 

[Eisen Hulk]

Thanks, Supe. I think I will pick up a plastic bumper from a junkyard soon, before I go polishing away on a new C6 or hopefully this 360 Modena I'm after. I also have a few friends with beaters for DD's, so I can use them as well, and they won't care what I do to them.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that, man. That kind of attitude is exactly what *I* would be looking for in a detailer to work on my cars.



Yeah, PFW at slower RPM's and less pressure works well for major correction on plastics. Front plastic bumpers scare me to death. They usually always require major correction, which means lot's of applications, which means more opportunities for melting plastic.







Yeah, I've always thought that it's a bit silly how every youtube video shows burning paint through in the middle of a hood, and no examples of edge or plastic burn throughs.



Honestly, burning through paint in the middle of a hood or body panel is *the very least likely* type of damage to incur when using a rotary, yet it seems like everyone is *most likely* to do a "practice burn through" of this type of damage.

 

[imported_cushdrive]

wow i used my rotary for the first time at 2000 and thought it was very slow?? maybe im just used to my flex. i am going to have to find an old panel to try a more aggressive polish and pad. but it will be on a practice panel or my friends car first LOL

This is why I don't recommend DA polishers to people looking to get into detailing. The rotary is a completely different monster and people get a false sense of security with DA polishers. I've just never experienced any increased benefits from polishing above 1600 rpms. 1500 is where I end up 99% of the time while breaking the polish down, and I always end at 900 no matter what polish I use. 2000 rpms is highly excessive IME....especially for beginners.

 

[imported_fishbonezken]

Here's my first burn

Also, think if the slope/curvature of the panel that you are buffing is flat enough for the pad, if it is too sloped, such as the picture above, the edge of the pad will burn through really easily.

Be extra careful... It does look and feel easy on a flat horizontal panel.

but around curves and small surface areas, and especially when using an aggressive combination (wool/compound), think twice before buffing those areas.

 

[BuffMe]

So, what have we established as the sure-fire use/speed/pad combo for safest use on curves/plastics?

 

[drew.haynes]

This thread interests me. I tried my Makita out last night for the first time. Just buffed the hood of one car and the fender of another.. notes and comments:



-Tried a 6.5" Megs Yellow Polishing foam. Seemed VERY grabby. The paint had been thoroughly clayed and sprayed with IPA first. I was using Megs Speed Glaze. The pad just wanted to pull the rotary it's own direction - very little control.

-Used a LC Black 6.5" (the older non-CCS ones that are somewhat concave). This was far more controllable. Even with a black pad, at ~1200rpm, I can tell the rotary breaks the polish down much faster. The panel, immediately after polishing, was only SLIGHTLY warm to the touch.

-I can relate to the sensation that the rotary moves slow. Even at 1200 rpm, it somehow gives the impression that it is not spinning very quickly.

-I tried to keep moving quickly - I did not go slowly in any area. The polish seemed to break down easily though I was moving at a rate of perhaps.. 6in/sec.



Relevant questions:

-How much does the "cut" of the pad factor into heat generation? I would expect foam in general to run hotter than wool, but how big of a difference in heat is there between say, Orange foam and Black foam? Is the black ~80% of the heat generation of orange, or is it more significantly cooler, like only ~40% of the heat?

-On plastic areas, like the bumper.. I assume you are all referring to any car that has a fiberglass bumper as opposed to metal? And I assume, if that's the case, the same care must be given to fiberglass fenders etc. Would most of these problems be alleviated by simply using a SLIGHTLY lower RPM and moving significantly faster? How instantaneously does the heat reach the point of burning? If it's even a full second before burning, I would think that simply moving across the paint quicker would help the issue.



Thoughts?

 

[SuperBee364]

As you mentioned, wool does run alot cooler than foam.



The total heat generated is *mostly* a factor of RPM, and not *so* much the texture of the foam. Yeah, texture has some factor in heat, but RPM is king. Making sure that the pad keeps moving over the paint, and that you are using a speed no faster than necessary for the given polish are really key in preventing buffer related damage.



I have had very little luck with using foam cutting pads. They usually leave very bad hazing and compounding marks. Far worse than wool. I'd chuck that foam cutting pad of yours in the trash and replace it with wool. Wool will cut better, faster, cooler, safer, easier to use, and will leave a better finish than a foam cutting pad.

 

[drew.haynes]

I fear I'll soon be buying that damn Edge adapter. Lol.. and a spur. Funny that those are my two biggest hesitations. Why can't there be more 6.5" variety of wool pads that are HOOK AND LOOP?