Rotary Newb finds success with Poorboy’s help

I don't really use wool that often, but the 8" foam pads fit in most places. The edges stick out further than the smaller pads so the machine itself is less likely to get in the way
 
With my dual action PC, I use 3 different sizes/models of pads. The easiet to control is a 6" LC Variable Contact. The most effective pad on flat surfaces is the revised 6.5" Edge DA Durafoam. However, the most versatile pad (and the one that's easier to maneuver in tight areas) is a 7.5" LC Curved Edge pad. Even though the 7.5" pad is larger, it fits into smaller spaces due to the shape of the pad and the fact that the edge sits far away from the machine. I find that it's the machine itself that is too big to fit into tight spaces. By having the edge of the pad extend way past the machine, it takes the bulky head of the machine out of the picture.

Which size generates more heat? It depends on the speeds used. If you keep the speed control constant on a rotary, Aaron Krause (Edge Pads) explained to me that a large diameter pad will generate more heat than a small diameter pad. This is because the spindle at the center of the pad spins at the same rate, but the outermost portions of the pads are moving at very different rates. The edge of the large pad has a wider arc to cover in the same amount of time, so it's actually the larger pads that generate more heat.

[Edit: The second paragraph comments were in reference to a circular polisher. Added the words "on a rotary" to avoid confusion.]
 
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yes but with a PC it's ok for the edge of the pad to be over body seams, etc. thus having a big pad is fine.
with a rotary its not ok.

for example, how would you use a 8" pad on a rotary on a 7" wide strip of paint (like on a door) with a plastic trim on top and bottom as your boundaries.

another one, how would you buff the left side of a hood that has a body seam on the edge and a sharp ridge about 6" from the body seam? you don't want that 8" pad on that ridge at all, it will burn though. you could cock the 8" at an angle but then you get holograms like a mofo.

these are the things that keep me awake at night:lol
 
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wifehatescar said:
yes but with a PC it's ok for the edge of the pad to be over body seams, etc. thus having a big pad is fine.
with a rotary its not ok.

for example, how would you use a 8" pad on a rotary on a 7" wide strip of paint (like on a door) with a plastic trim on top and bottom as your boundaries.

another one, how would you buff the left side of a hood that has a body seam on the edge and a sharp ridge about 6" from the body seam? you don't want that 8" pad on that ridge at all, it will burn though. you could cock the 8" at an angle but then you get holograms like a mofo.

these are the things that keep me awake at night:lol
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Oh, I think I see what you mean now. You're concerned that with a larger diameter pad, you may accidentally come into contact with areas known to have thinner paint coverage (curved sections of body work). Hitting these thin paint sections with a non-flat section of a rotary pad could create problems. Is that the issue you're worried about?
 
Is the Lincoln a clear coat car? Did you measure the paint thickness before starting? Prior to visting DC I didn't know you could measure paint thickness.

When using the rotary with a wool pad, did you apply much, if any, downforce or did you let the pad & the SSR2 & SSR2.5 do the job?
 
NYV6Coupe said:
Is the Lincoln a clear coat car? Did you measure the paint thickness before starting? Prior to visting DC I didn't know you could measure paint thickness.

When using the rotary with a wool pad, did you apply much, if any, downforce or did you let the pad & the SSR2 & SSR2.5 do the job?
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Yes, the paint was clearcoated. No red coloring showed up on the pad after buffing. I actually didn't even realize that it was metallic paint until we had finished our first round of buffing. The paint was in such bad shape that it looked non-metallic. We did not use a paint thickness gauge. The car was pretty banged up (dented, scratched, missing trim, bent aerial, etc.). So even if we had burned through the existing paint, it wouldn't have been a tragedy.

I hardly used any pressure with the rotary. Most of the time, I just the let weight of the machine provide the pressure. My task was to keep the buffer moving smoothly and to hold it steady at the proper angles.
 
Congrats Marj! It really is nice to have someone show you the right way to use it from the start, as it's difficult to break bad habits. It's also nice to have a "klunker" to work on. If they will let you, go back and practice some more on that vehicle.

Steve is right, a good lambs wool pad is about as safe as it gets. However, NEVER use a "synthetic wool" pad. :D

Isn't it amazing how quickly a rotary can make the paint look "liquid"! :bigups
 
awd330 said:
Oh, I think I see what you mean now. You're concerned that with a larger diameter pad, you may accidentally come into contact with areas known to have thinner paint coverage (curved sections of body work). Hitting these thin paint sections with a non-flat section of a rotary pad could create problems. Is that the issue you're worried about?
Click to expand...

Yeah that but there's another issue too.

I'll make an easy example, say you are buffing a square hood. With a large pad, how would you buff the 4 corners assuming you keep the pad flat?
A smaller pad can touch more of the paint in the corners before it's hanging off the edge of the hood (a bad thing to do with a rotary).

A larger pad, to me = having the buff with it at an angle (not flat) to reach everything vs. a smaller pad which can do most of the car while keeping the pad flat.

..................so Steve, when is that Detroit Poorboys detailing day??????:-p I need you to school me too!
 
first ...I never keep my rotary pad completely flat on a surface...

second ...who said it was bad to go off the end?

third... I believe wool(real) is safer than foam

fourth..Detroit is not looking good considering Eric's health:dunno
 
Poorboy said:
first ...I never keep my rotary pad completely flat on a surface...

second ...who said it was bad to go off the end?

third... I believe wool(real) is safer than foam

fourth..Detroit is not looking good considering Eric's health:dunno
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1. I thought that was bad cause it causes holograms? I was always told to keep the pad flat.

2. Doesn't that concentrate too much heat on the corner thus risking burn through? I burned edges with a PC by keeping it on there a bit too long.

3. Fair enough...

4. Darn :(
 
the first key to using a rotary is keep moving so that heat does not build up to the point of burning...the part of the pad touching the paint should be flat, but that could just be the edge if the pad is large enough to be flexible, ie larger pad than backing plate...

4) yes it's really sad, but things could always change;dunno
 
Hey Steve since your being all guru ;) - SSR2 and wool pad with a rotary - suggested rpm's? how long would I work it? -
 
Boss -
Yes, Steve and I will be re-visiting the Lincoln at least once or twice more. Once they get the car turned around, we will need to buff the left half as well as the bumpers. We should also use a finishing polish and protectant to complete the job. You're right about the rotary making the paint look liquid. I was amazed at how quickly the finish improved. All of that work was accomplished in about an hour, and that was with a lot of starting and stopping for teaching/learning. It would have taken many hours to get anywhere near those same results with a PC. BTW, since you like wool pads too, do you have any recommendations for pad brands or styles?

wifehatescar -
Steve showed me how to hold the buffer so the leading edge is tipped slightly downward. So, the whole pad isn't really flat against the surface. It's hard to explain the exact angles without being there in person. I guess it would be like trying to teach someone a golf swing by talking to them over the phone. Steve would first have to demonstrate by holding the buffer himself. Then, he would have me try to copy his method. There was a lot of fine tuning going on during the whole session. Imagine this verbal exchange:
(Marj) Is this right?
(Steve) No, tilt it more.
(Marj) Like this?
(Steve) No, that's too much.
(Marj) How about now?
(Steve) That's better, but you need to lengthen your passes.
(Marj) Is this long enough?
(Steve) Yes, but you're overlapping too much.

l33 -
Yes, I am in the northern section of Rockland (near Bear Mountain).

JeffBruce -
I'm sorry, but I won't appear in amateur videos. :D :naughty
 
Poorboy said:
first ...I never keep my rotary pad completely flat on a surface...

second ...who said it was bad to go off the end?

third... I believe wool(real) is safer than foam
Click to expand...

A few more thoughts ...
1. My experience has been to keep the pad as flat as possible, but with wool this usually means a minimal tilt. With some foam pads it is possible to keep them perfectly flat. The Meguiars W-1000, soft buff pad, with a glued on backing plate is one that works well for this because of its domed shape

2. When the pad goes off the end keep in mind that more pressure is being applied because there is less material supporting the weight (pressure) of the pad than on the flat part of the panel. Also (important) make sure the buffer is positioned so the pad is spinning off the end and not towards it or into it. This eliminates the pad from digging into the panel and also helps minimize wearing throught the paint on the edges.

3. I have actually put some deep swirls into the paint with a foam pad. I thing this was from using to much pressure and allowing the polish to dry out to much which caused excess heat and friction. I do use foam pads a lot but there was a learning curve.

GREAT write up Marj ...
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience!
 
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Well, finally did my big detail this weekend, a 73 Mercedes. I'll make a new post tomorrow but needless to say my rotary skills seem hit and miss.

I have been successful in the past, but today, the rotary was putting in more swirls than it was taking out. I fianlly reverted to the PC just to muster some type of decent finish on the paint.

With the rotary I tried at speed 1500 rpm:
cutting pad and ssr 2.5 and 3
light cutting pad 2.5, 3
foam blue and yellow 2.5, 3

(yes I cut alot of paint) but all of the above combos made swirls/homograms (I was working in the sun so maybe it dried out too fast and that made the swirls??? Finally went to PC and ssr2.5 x 2 to try and clean it up. A frustrating day! :mad:

PS both wool choices made instant holograms.
 
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