rotary help!!

C

chip douglas

New member
help !

Ok, here's what I do : I wash my car, rinse it, let it air dry, then break out the rotary, prime my Meg's finishing pad, so no area is dry--I prime it with compound of course . I smear the compound round with the rotary off. I then start buffing with 3M's machine glaze 5937, and keep the pad flat and also overlap each stroke by 50%, and buff it till it flashes. Then I take it in the sun, wash it and inspect for holograms, and although I've done all the above mentioned, I still get them everytime.



Does everyone here, wash the car after you're done buffing/polishing using a rotary and take it outside in the sunlight to look for holograms ? Or use a 50/50 water/alcohol mix as an alternative ? Of course I wipe it using quick detailer I don't see holograms, but it only hides them I guess. From up close they appear as very very fine and closely grouped scratches. I've tried rubbing them off with my finger but no can do, they stay there. I've tried changing pad and still no luck. I think 3M's 5937 leaves some very very fine marks, or perhaps it is the pad, and honestly I'd tend to think the pad is responsible for such scratches. They're not washmitt scratches as I'Ve learned the difference the hard way this summer .



I need help, as I can't see what it is im doing wrong......and I'd like to use the rotary only to make the finish perfect. The PC would cut it for me but I prefer to master the hardest--the rotary.





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Practice, practice,practice and again, more practice. He he more than I care to do. ( Doesn't pay to do if not a pro doing large number of cars) If I'm going to use a rotary I'll follow with my Cyclo.



Also, for rotary, I've come to believe the LC pads and Menzerna might be one of the best combinations out there.
 
but there's obviously something im doing wrong but can't put my finger on it. I'm usually quite skilled at everything I do, but with the rotary, either I don't have the hang of it, or most people dont take the steps I do to check for holograms/nano scratches.



Im at my wits end :(
 
you'll probably get holograms every time being a newbie. Dont worry it happens to the best of us what i do is when i notice some light swirls i follow up w/a nother polish like FP or DACP or SSR2 then that usually minimizes or removes the swirls then go to your glaze or lsp
 
Hum, I'm using 3M's machine glaze 5937 which is supposed to be very soft, and I would say softer than Meg's DACP....am I being correct here ? So this alone should take care of the very light holograms I'm getting....at least I think so.:o
 
i dont know if machine glaze hides swirls or not sorry:confused:

but ususally when i use my rotory i check my work w halogen lights or the sun which ever is available at that time. Are you starting w/ machine glaze or is this your 2nd step
 
The rotary is in a league of its own with degree of difficulty and learning curve. I have a hard time believing people when they use it the first time and get no swirls. On black especially holograms will show, it will take practice to polish with out them.



I'm trying to understand something in your post though as i'm not fimilar with 3M's machine glaze 5937. You say you prime the pad with compound, then start buffing with 3M's machine glaze 5937? Are you priming the pad with one product then buffing with another? I usually just prime the pad with water, then spread a little product, keep the rpm's low and build up speed until the pad is properly primed.



If it is a compound, why use a finishing pad? You'll need a more agressive pad.



I always follow up with FP2 and the PC after i use the rotary to remove the holograms i may have left. I never expect to do a job completely by rotary.
 
The 3M machine glaze confuse people because they call it a *glaze* which is in fact a bodyshop safe swirl remover, and on the label it says *non filling swirl mark remover*. I too always inpsect my jo in the sun, as the sun is the best to reveal holograms. Since the front fenders as well as the hood was repainted last fall, I used the machine glaze only on them, but the rest of the car got a fine cut prior to the swirl mark remover. So for instance on the front and hood, the only thing I've used is Meguiars 6.5'' finishing pad + the swirl mark remover.



I also have #82, #83 DACP.........I've tried #82 and I still get holograms, and the pad is however saturated with compound, meaning there's no dry spot. I've tried leaving a wet edge but even then, I get holograms :(.
 
I still don't understand, are you priming with compound and then using another product? Or are you priming with the same product your are using to do the buffing?



The reason i ask is if you have 2 different products on the pad this would definitly cause marring or holograms.
 
L33 said:
I have a hard time believing people when they use it the first time and get no swirls. On black especially holograms will show, it will take practice to polish with out them.
Click to expand...



Well the 2nd vehicle i did while learning was black & of course i did get swirls but they were removed using PC & Light Cut. Any way you dont need to prime the pad w/product lightly mist the QD on the pad then place about a quarter sized drop of product on the panel put the rotory on it and pulse it a couple of times to prevent splatter then go to work. I know clean dean uses the 82 w/ a finishing pad you can use a finishing pad w/a compound but it usually doesnt do anything. What type of pad are you using?
 
Yes you need to prime the pad with some product, but not saturate it. Too much product on a pad can be a problem.



I prime it with compound of course . I smear the compound round with the rotary off. I then start buffing with 3M's machine glaze 5937
Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out if he is priming with one product and polishing with another.



I've heard of finishing pads and polish, but not compound.
 
As i said it's very confusing as some say they use the rotary alone and get the paint without any holograms etc...but given I'm usally a skilled worker, and that i'm so very meticulous, I'm beginning to think it cannot be done.....but I may be wrong though.
 
I'm confused cause the other day I was told that part of the pad could lack compound, therefore part of it may not have been conditioned enough leading to swirling induced by the pad, but prior to that I used the very same method you're describing--quick detailer + a bead of compound, smear it round at low rpm and proceeed to buff.
 
The holograms I get do look like *trails* that is they re long but not wide. I' used quick detailer on them and it hides them, as well as wax. But it only hides them.



Since some told me all could be done with the rotary, I've set myself to doing it that way, but now I wonder if it can be done at all.
 
would you say it's possible to bring the finish perfect with the rotary alone ? I think you've been detailing for a long time right ?
 
Everything I know about it tells me Menzerna ought to be THE product for you. Take a look at Deanski's posts about it. Might just be the ultimate headache saver. If you decide to try it out I'd encourage another brand of pads, Lake Country, since you'd have to order both.
 
Chip,



I know you e-mailed me about this but I thought it would be best to reply to you in this thread.



Let me ease your mind a bit and tell you that I have yet to see or perform myself a completely flawless finish with a rotary alone.



I have seen paints close to perfection but these are custom paint jobs and they are worked on from day one with that very intention. Consumer cars just aren't going to have that type of attention paid to them so the detailer only has what the factory provided to work with.



With that said I hope you ease up a bit on yourself:D



Swirls are introduced usually by the leading edge of your pad but since there is no such a thing as an edgeless pad one will then always deal with swirls BUT we can minimize them.



I almost always finish off my rotary jobs with a LC blue fine finishing pad and Menzerna Final Polish. This still leaves some swirls but they are very light and a passing with my Cyclo and some FP usually takes care of them.



If need be I will use a glaze, I really like Menzerna Glaze.



Also apply the product to the paint in a small drop, place the pad on the drop and buff. Try that way and see if there is a difference.



OK..gotta run, fish on the grill



Anthony
 
L33- He's using the same product for everything.



6']['9- Some QDs have just enough wax/etc. in them to hide minor holograms.



Chip Douglas- It could be that the rotary/05937/finishing pad combo just isn't right for that particular vehicle. Maybe try Menzerna FP (still with the rotary/finishing pad). Maybe try another brand of pad. And just maybe *nobody* could get that paint perfect with just a rotary. It's easy for people to *say* "hey, I know I could..", let's see 'em show up at your place and actually do it. Talk doesn't impress me much, especially over the internet ;)



The 05937 *IS* a lot less abrasive/aggressive than DACP.



Much as I appreciate your desire to do it all by rotary alone and thus fully "master" the skill of rotary use, IMHO you're starting to get to the point where the frustration you experience along the way might be outweighing the satisfaction you would/will attain by achieving such mastery. If I have to follow up with the Cyclo I just do it (and even Mike Phillips often follows his rotary work with some PCing).



Life is short and we all have to decide how to expend our time and other resources ;) A guy who can *really* drive a stick (as in, double-clutch the upshifts perfectly every time) once said of mastering such a skill- "But why bother? Most people oughta just get an automatic. You wanna master something, learn how to use a lathe". The point being, we don't all have to be experts at everything that interests us. End of lecture :o
 
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