Rotary>???>Cyclo>PC

I

imported_iceberg

New member
Don't know if that's the true ranking of correctional capabilities in terms of cyclo and PC, but . . .



I currently have a cyclo and was wondering if there was a machine to provide a step up in aggressiveness without going all the way to a rotary. While I would enjoy mastering a rotary, it sounds like the splatter and taping, not to mention practice required to develop proficiency with it, makes staying away from it the sounder decision.



Therefore, I was wondering whether a dual-mode polisher like the Festool RO150 or RO125 offered something just a touch less aggressive (and safer than a rotary) with their Rotex, or "forced rotation," mode. I thought it might have a little extra cutting action beyond most ROBs, but still be way safer than a pure rotary in my rotary-noob hands. Plus they have speed control and strong motors so it seems like even in RO mode they might be a little stronger then the Cyclo.



Has anyone found a tool that gets close to the rotary in its ability to repair defects but has a larger margin of safety?
 
Anthony Orosco has been talking about an upcoming pad system for the Cyclo which makes it approach rotary capabilities. You might want to wait and see what's going to become of them.
 
BillD,



As the proponent of "The Trinity," could you give me a relative sense of how often you use each machine? I'm interested in getting a sense of how often you use the rotary relative to the cyclo.



Also, I've read that a rotary, properly used, can produce results better than what a ROB can obtain, even on paint in good condition, because the heat can "reflow" the clear. Has this been your experience?
 
I use the Cyclo probably a good 95% of the time. That said, the other day I was spot polishing part of my rear bumper and used the PC. I reserve the PC these days for jobs like that and other tight areas the Cyclo can't fit into.Yeah, the heat the rotary produces is the key to total defect removal



I haven't used the rotary on my cars. I really would need a paint gage read out , if I were to use it on the Caddy first. (That one is the car that could need it) I've used my rotary on a beater car and feel fairly confident on horizontal surfaces but I still am uneasy about the sides and I always seem to make holograms :wall I'm stuck and don't know how to improve my skills on the sides :( . I sure would like to attend one of those Detail King, Auto Int, etc classes one day.



So, I have a rotary, more or less, as a final resort, if some disaster happened to my paint I'd try it in a last effort to save it from a body shop. I'd use it very gingerly and probably have to follow with the Cyclo. Nevertheless, I'd encourage any serious enthusiasts to get one and become at least as comfortable as I am with it. It really could save the day as long as you play it safe.



Get scrap panels, like I have, first and just focus on on how the machine feels in your hands, no need to worry about perfecting the paint the first times, in fact, try to burn the paint intentionally just to see how quickly and easy it is to do depending on how you used it.



Oh yeah,by "ROB" do you mean "Dual Action" or DA :confused ( aka the PC is sometimes referred to a DA)



BTW, where are my manners? :o



Welcome to Autopia! :wavey
 
*chuckle* Where are my manners? Hello, Autopia! :wavey



As for ROB, I guess I mean DA. :wall



Maybe I'll hold off and see about the new Cyclo pads Anthony is working on before taking the plunge into a rotary . . .
 
iceberg said:
As the proponent of "The Trinity," could you give me a relative sense of how often you use each machine? I'm interested in getting a sense of how often you use the rotary relative to the cyclo.



Also, I've read that a rotary, properly used, can produce results better than what a ROB can obtain, even on paint in good condition, because the heat can "reflow" the clear. Has this been your experience?
Click to expand...





Welcome to Autopia!



I have the same "trinity" as Bill D. The only times I use the rotary are when I get some nasty, serious marring on a car with hard clear. Even then I always go over it afterwards with the Cyclo. I have not found the rotary to give better results on *mild* marring. The Cyclo gets mild stuff out just fine and actually, the final polishing with the Cyclo and often also the PC seem to be what gives a car the "special look".



Maybe other people get different results, but for me, just using the rotary for the "grunt work" and then switching to the Cyclo gives me results that *I* consider "faultless".



If other people wouldn't touch my vehicles (gee, don't you just hate the real world :D ) I wouldn't need a rotary at all. Nothing that my wife or I do to them ever results in the sort of damage that requires a rotary. Heh heh, I get bummed if I have to polish them *at all*.



I too have heard the "reflow the clear" thing, most recently from an experienced guy working at Stoddard Imports. But when I (nicely) challenged the guy to actually *do* it on the one bad scratch on my S8, and warned him of the consequences if he botched it up, he decided to pass. Funny how his certainty evaporated when he really considered "doing it for real". So my vehicles still have a few serious scratches, but those panels have original paint, too ;) I understand that there can be no guarantees with this sort of work, but IMO the whole "reflowing the paint" thing just isn't too applicable to most rotary users. Maybe some people can do it, but I dunno...



For me, what the rotary really offers is a) the ability to correct very hard paint and b) great time-savings.



There's *no way* I can get anything except the lightest marring out of Audi clear. To completely remove fingernail scratches behind door handles is a major pain, for instance. When it comes to whole vehicles, I've spent many hours with a PC and wool pads and PI-II RC with no success. The rotary *does* take out the marring and it wasn't very hard to gain a reasonable mastery of it (but I sure don't consider myself an expert with the thing). Just gotta use some common sense, especially if you use user-friendly products.



But like Bill, I'm leery of using a rotary on paint of unknown thickness. There's just no way to know if you really can take that scratch out without thinning the clear too much. And it's always tempting to work an area just a little more. Fractions of a micron are not something you can judge by eye. In most cases, I'll settle for imperfection and then try to never let it get worse. Don't need a rotary for that.
 
Great post as usual Accumulator! :bigups





Accumulator said:
When it comes to whole vehicles, I've spent many hours with a PC and wool pads and PI-II RC with no success.
Click to expand...



I can definitely attest to this. I have spent a day working on my Cadillac's hood , I "threw" several products at it, eventually resorting to 1z Ultra with a PC and wool pad ( before I had the Cyclo-probably wouldn't make much difference any way). All those hours of work and finishing off with the wool pad /Ultra combination just yielded micromarring and NO correction of the existing defects :wall :mad: So I had to put in further time correcting the micromarring with Menzerna, cutting pads and finally, the light at the end of tunnel, polishing pad :sosad



The hood of this car probably has the most vulnerable paint too :( It has a brilliant gloss but in the right light, particularly under fluorescents you can see the (few) defects that really bug me.

In this case, I alwys keep in mind the point Accumulator and others have made: this is original paint, it can only be original once and unless there is a guarantee it can improve even more, better to leave well enough alone.
 
To be honest, I wouldn't spend a great deal of time searching for an between.



PC is great tool.

Many rave about the a cyclo.



Your nervousness of a Rotary is bit much. The fact is, if you are careful and don't go about it like a mad man on X, you won't damage your finish. Getting good results is just like working with a PC or Cyclo. Practice makes perfect and understanding product/pad/working time goes a long way.



A ROTARY IS A SAFE MACHINE. Especially a high powered unit like a 9227C where it won't bog down etc. For the average Joe who probably still washes with a cellulose sponge, dish soap and dries the car with cotton diapers, yeah, he can do a lot of damage in very quickly.



For almost anyone here, especially if you have a PCDA and Cyclo in your possession already, aRotary isn't as big step up as many make it out to be. You have obviously have read enough to understand the basics and the fact you even know of the dual functioning units leads me to believe you should be considering a nice rotary and start slowly and work your way up to 1750 rpm. Probably within a couple of days.



The slinging can be minimized by "picking up" product the right way and keeping the pad flap or at a 5 degree angle. Taping is just a safety step and to be honest, you should probably be doing it with any polisher. A PC can sling a terrible amount as well if you get a bit ambitious with it. Nothing like DACP sling to really piss you off after a hard days polishing.



The rest is just practice.



Paco
 
Well put you guys. Some good advice from all. I would recommend staying with the cyclo. It probably is all you will need. Get to know different pads and products and what they can do.
 
I deeply appreciate everyone's thoughts. Maybe I need to play around with some additional pads and polishes with the cyclo before I head down the path of the Trinity.



And Paco, I probably am a bit paranoid about the rotary, but as Accumulator and Bill noted, I just don't want to threaten my factory paint unless I can guarantee and improvement.



Now if I could just find some kind of detailing class in Northern California. Maybe Anthony Orosco could throw some Cyclo and rotary classes . . . (although I would have to fly out for them).
 
iceberg- I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't try it. Somehow it just seems to half-@$$ed to me. I can't imagine having the sort of control that I'd like, and I have a variety of electric drills to choose from.



It might be an expensive indulgence, but I'd really rather have the Makita for this sort of thing. I keep it set up with a small backing plate for 4" pads. I look at it this way- if I screw up *one* panel, the cost to get it repainted will be the same or more than the cost of a rotary.



If you don't want to spring for a rotary, I'd just work small areas at at time by hand with something like 1Z Ultra.
 
Thanks for the thoughts, Accumulator. I remember reading some good reviews a while back on the cordless drill attachments, but true, I suspect the control might not be as good.



I don't really mind springing for a rotary, but only if its going to see some use. Maybe not so much on my paint beyond the occasional spot repair, but perhaps on some other friends and family cars . . . . but that means I actually have to become proficient with it.
 
Nextthing, you'll have to decide which rotary, I like the Dewalt ,less popular than the Makita but it has the all metal parts which does make it a bit more heavy but it also has the RPM right on the dial which I really like :up



Off the top of my head, the following mfrs make rotaries



Harbor Freight/Chicago



Makita



Dewalt



Porter cable



Fein



Milwaukee



Metabo



There are folks on the forums who have these, I'm sure they'll give you their input on them
 
Bill, would the smaller size/weight of the Metabo and Fein be an advantage? I figure with a smaller presence, I'd be less paranoid of them. But I know nothing about what makes one rotary easier or better than another.
 
I think Anthony Orosco has a Metabo and I know Jimmy Buffit is an avid Fein user. They would know for sure
 
Alright you ultra high-end rotary users . . . speak up!



I'll be pestering them both to see if they've ever compared them side-by-side. But Anthony and Jimmy both probably have some serious seat time behind the rotary -- the fact that they use a Metabo and Fein, respectively, leads me to believe they're good units.



Thanks again for all your thoughts.
 
ok about the drill attachment thing. my uncle has done that before. thats the first tool i used for detailing. He did a good job. When i used it on my dads pony i did a pretty good job, but its really hard on the hands and IS harder to control. but its very good i think for little job here and there.





oo and it might only be hard with my drill because its like 20 years old...all steel and like 15 pounds.
 
I'd just proceed with extreme caution using a drill set up, especially with a wool pad to polish an entire car. Might just be better off with the type of tool intended for that job but if it works for you.........
 
Bill D said:
Anthony Orosco has been talking about an upcoming pad system for the Cyclo which makes it approach rotary capabilities. You might want to wait and see what's going to become of them.
Click to expand...



a litte off topic for a second please, but whos that? i tried looking for him on the internet but i found his names on other forums and a website but it never worked.
 
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