Removing light oxidation by hand from thin single coat 1980 brown Volvo

volvie!

volvie!

New member
Hi Everyone,



Fair warning: I'm a newbie suffering from too much information and may be making things more complicated than they need to be. I tend to over think things, but I prefer to be fully informed and know what to expect than to make a mistake that may lead to more damage.



From all the research I've been doing lately, I realize variations of this question are frequently asked, but I still don't know the best answer and hope you can help.



So far, I have called the Meguairs Customer Service line, talked with a very patient employee at a local auto shop, spent hours searching this forum, and even posted on a Volvo-specific forum.



About me:

Prior to finding this forum, my exterior care was mostly done by me, by hand and involved a wash and dry with occasional wax and a couple trips to the detailer for the things I could not do myself. I now realize my exterior care was behind the times and I am seeking to improve it.

My interior care was better and more involved with dusting, vacuuming, vinyl cleaner, glass cleaner, etc.



My car:

Is also my 28-year-old dream car and is a 1980 Volvo 244DL (the ones that look like boxes) with brown single coat/single stage (no clear coat) original paint. When I originally bought the car in 2003, the paint was pretty oxidized and the car was caked in dirt, dust, what-have-you. I took it to a professional dealer to have the oxidation buffed off on at least one (maybe two) occasions. When I last saw him, he said that the paint was so thin it probably could not withstand another round of buffing...

Well, that was before I left for grad school and got really poor (both in money and free time), so, yep, you guessed it, the wax has lapsed and the paint is beginning to oxidize again. Compared to the previous instance(s), the current oxidation is still pretty light, but I'm no expert. I've tried taking pictures of it, but the paint is still pretty shiny and you mostly only see reflection with some haze. The worst areas are in the "creases" where the trunk change levels from a slightly higher area to a slightly depressed area (and is also one of the places where the paint is pretty thin), and on the flat surfaces of the hood and roof.



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The question:

I can't afford a professional, my car probably can't take another buffing, and I would like learn how to remove the oxidation, restore shine, and add protection by myself, by hand (and, I currently have the time and will power), so:

-What is a really light/easy/gentle way to remove the oxidation by hand?

A cleaner, a polish, a combination product, other...

-What is the next step if that does not remove all the oxidation?

-What do I apply after to keep the shine and prevent further oxidation?

A glaze, a sealer, a wax, a combination, other...

-What specific products (brands, pads, towels) do you recommend?

-Could you make your suggestions as a little to-do check list (i.e., step one- product ___ best applied with ___ and removed with___ )?



The advice I received:

-From Meguiars: Use Color X (polish and wax) and be prepared for a lot of work.

-From Volvo forum: Astro Shield: Helps now, but difficult to remove

-From auto store employee: TR-3 Resin Glaze (cleaner and polish) has better results than Color X



And, for our newer cars with clear coat the auto store employee recommended:

-Maguiars Deep Crystal Series #1 Paint Cleaner

-Turtle Wax Ice Liquid Clay Bar

-Maguiars Deep Crystal Series #2 Polish

-Maguiars Gold Class Liquid Wax.

Since I was at the auto store, I bought those recommended products then searched for product reviews on this forum. Overall they seem like good choices that fit our needs for our newer cars, but I still have some questions about the products to remove the oxidation with out removing too much of the good paint underneath (i.e, not too abrasive or aggressive).



What I found at Autopia:

-The post with one of the more similar questions I've found is this one:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/detail...hemical-polish-lightly-oxidized-ss-paint.html

Which recommends Klasse All-In-One (Klasse AIO), Meguiars Color X, and something called ZAIO (which I could not find in the abbreviation list, but guess that it may be a Zanio All-In-One?) that can all be hand applied.

I did not come across the Klasse AIO in the store-- is this a special order product, or can it be found in stores?

-And, this one with similar recommendations:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-de...toring-finish-single-stage-red-oxidation.html

-Astro Shield seems to still be used by some family members of autopians. I found only one reference that it may be hard to remove on this forum...

-It seems TR-3 is an old school product that no one really uses any more, or did not write a review about...

-Meguiars Color X seems to be a nice product if you are willing to put in the time:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/70510-meguire-s-colorx.html

-Paint Clinic:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-detailing/80224-paint-clinic.html

" Paint oxidation is not the kiss of death. Light oxidation is easily removed through regular paint cleaning and polishing. Moderate oxidation can also be repaired, but may require a cutting polish, like Sonus SFX-1 Restore. Heavy oxidation, recognizable by a completely dull, chalky surface, is likely beyond complete restoration. However, even heavily oxidized paint can be polished to bring back shine."



What I am thinking:

-I've heard that combination products are not the best method. Is this true and are Maguairs Color X and TR-3 considered combination products? If so, what would you recommend differently? If not, which "combination" is best for a thin single coat paint: polish and wax or cleaner and polish?

Of the two, I am more inclined to think that the cleaner and polish is better because nothing is getting "sealed in," but I may be confusing terms/definitions...

-Some people think TR-3 is old school, but I have not seen any recent reviews to say how well it works, what to expect, or the pros/cons. Is it difficult to remove like Astro Shield? With a general google search, it seems people who use TR-3 really like it, but again, I was not able to find a good review of the product...

-Since I already have it for the other cars, would I be better served to just use the Maguiars Deep Crystal Paint System #1 Cleaner and #2 Polish as a first option? Would this option be gentler or more abrasive than TR-3? Which would lead to better results? Of these products which do you think I should try first?

-Where does the Klasse All-In-One fit in?

-Or, do you have another product that you think is better served for my car to remove the oxidation?

-I still do not really know what to do after I get the oxidation off: apply a sealer then wax, etc...



If you are still reading this-- Thank you! :-)

If you are confused, I apologize-- Let me know where I lost you and I will try to explain myself in a different way.



I look forward to your responses and hope my questions will help others as well.



Thank you for your time.
 
Yay, my post passed moderation! :bounce



An update: A person from my Volvo forum also suggested that I try to find someone who can test the thickness of the paint. I have yet to call my detail guy because I can't afford him right now, and I'm a bit embarrassed to show him what the car looks like now-- that's why I posted my question to you guys: I hope there is something I can do myself that is cheaper than going to my detail guy...



Thanks in advance for your thoughts, recommendations, or suggestions! :2thumbs:
 
Hello!



From what has been advised to you ColorX @ $8 or so is probably one of the best options. If you are buying online do check out the Sonus applicators, they are very good and working through oxidaition. Its worth noting K-AIO has been changed from the days when it was an "oxidation eater", the newer version is less potent.



TR3 is in a tin can and looks old? A friend of mine had it in the USA last yr which someone told her would remove water spots. I popped the top and almost died from the smell, SOLVENT!



The cleaning action in ColorX will remove the oxidation, it might take a few goes working in small areas. Follow that up with a wax, for long term protection.



Geoff
 
Hi Steelwind101,



Thanks for the advice!



I have a few follow-up questions:

Which Sonus applicators do you recommend?

I found a couple of options at the autopia store:

Sonus Der Wunder Applicator Pkg2 - Applicators - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies

Sonus SFX Professional Applicator Pkg2 - Applicators - Autopia Shopping Network :: Detailing Products and Supplies

Is it one of these or something else?

From browsing the Meguiar's website, it seems they recommend this:

"For best results, apply with an Even-Coat Applicator and remove residue with a Supreme Shine® Microfiber or Ultra Plush Super Terry."

I think this is the link for the even coat applicator:

Even CoatÂâ„¢ Microfiber Applicator Pads X3080 Product Information

Is this similar to the Sonus pads you were thinking of?



The ColorX product says it is a "polish and wax combination," so what wax should I follow it up with?

Is there a good strong/thick/protective wax that is especially good for single coat car colors?



Thanks!
 
Volvie. I still got almost a full bottle of Klasse AIO. If you're willing to drop by my place and give it a shot, you're more than welcome.
 
mr.ikon said:
Volvie. I still got almost a full bottle of Klasse AIO. If you're willing to drop by my place and give it a shot, you're more than welcome.
Click to expand...



Hi mr. ikon,



I appreciate the offer, but am still investigating options-- I want to make sure I get as much information as I can before I try anything...
 
Hi Everyone,



An update:

I sent an e-mail to a detailing company that a member of my Volvo club recommended. Here is the reply:



"I have quite a bit of experience with volvo paint. Single stage and overall

pretty durable. First, understand that your paint is getting thin and even

a mil thickness guage will only reference a current thickness. Not what the

vehicle had when new. So for reference we need to assume that it is thin and

needs only a gentle touch. There is a lot of opinions however only one

option seems right. Zymol!!! Here is why. After a thorough washing, clay

the vehicle to remove surface contaminaton. This will not remove any paint

that is not already dead. After the surface contamination has been removed,

use zymol HD Cleanse to remove the dead paint from the surface without

removing any mil thickness from the good paint. HD cleanse is very gentle

and is probably the best product for the application. I would follow with

zymol carbon wax. It has a high carnauba content and contains no cleaners or

abrasives. Use this product as much as you would like without removing

excess paint material. Zymol lasts a long time and has excellent gloss. I

have been using these products for years and despite the price, they are

used very sparingly and one 8 oz. jar of carbon wax will wax your vehicle at

least 10 times. So it is really a good value for the quality. I cannot say

that this system will remove all imperfections, however it is the best plan

for a vehicle who need a very gentle touch."



This is the first time I've heard about using clay with oxidized paint.

What do you think about using clay for this car?

And, what do you think of his product recommendations, method, and reasoning?



**Edit:

Well, I received permission to list the author and company that I wrote to:

His name is Jeremy Goodspeed and he is from Goodspeed Motoring in Modesto.



Here is his reply to my question about using clay on oxidized paint:

"Clay bars only remove surface contaminates, not any mil thickness from the good paint. Oxidation is simply the process of the paint oils gassing up to the top along with the top surface fading with UV exposure. The concept of waxing a vehicle does two things: First, it retains the oils in the surface and Second, it repels outside contaminents and UV exposure. It also makes a car shiny, but that is not the most important property. If you would like to reference me publically, I see no problem with that, everyone has an opinion, and this is mine through years of pratical experience. Others may dissagree but thats OK!



Hope this helps

Jeremy Goodspeed

www.goodspeedmotoring.com"

End of edit**



Thanks.
 
Great car! What you need is a good chemical paint cleaner; one with zero abrasives so you won't diminish your thin paint.



I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend a product called Clearkote Moose Wax. In all my years, this is the best non abrasive cleaner wax I have used. It works great by hand.



Here it is from a great vendor:



ClearKote Moose Wax



What you need after the paint has been cleaned is a very good coat of wax to protect it. One of the best, longest lasting paste waxes available is Collinite 476s. It is perfect for single stage paints. If you do a search you'll see how great it is.



Collinite Super DoubleCoat Auto Wax #476



So first clean the paint and then top with Collinite. I guarantee most here will agree with this combo. Claying oxidized paint won't get you very far. The chemical cleaner will remove it.
 
while i appreciate how much research you're doing for this, your car's paint is very very barely oxidized. the klasse all-in-one that someone offered to test for you in sacto would be a great way to do it and it should take about fifteen minutes. it doesn't remove paint either.
 
Spilchy:

Thanks for the wax recommendations-- I'm going to look into them shortly!



admac:

I'm glad to hear my oxidation is still pretty light! That definitely makes me feel better!



I know it seems like I am being silly and overly cautious, but I really like this car.

I know it will need a re-paint eventually, but I'm trying to delay that as long as possible (especially given my current lack of funds...)



And, I cannot thank everyone enough for all of your recommendations and time!

I really do appreciate it!
 
Spilchy said:
Great car! What you need is a good chemical paint cleaner; one with zero abrasives so you won't diminish your thin paint.



I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend a product called Clearkote Moose Wax. In all my years, this is the best non abrasive cleaner wax I have used. It works great by hand.



Here it is from a great vendor:



ClearKote Moose Wax



What you need after the paint has been cleaned is a very good coat of wax to protect it. One of the best, longest lasting paste waxes available is Collinite 476s. It is perfect for single stage paints. If you do a search you'll see how great it is.



Collinite Super DoubleCoat Auto Wax #476



So first clean the paint and then top with Collinite. I guarantee most here will agree with this combo. Claying oxidized paint won't get you very far. The chemical cleaner will remove it.
Click to expand...



+1



If you want to stick with OTC ColorX is a good AIO and you could always take Mr. Ikon up on his very generous offer to try his Klasse AIO.



Edit: Don't forget you can get Collinite OTC at Harbor Freight!
 
Hi Everyone,



I know I'm going to end up with a lot of oxidized paint on my pads, so I was browsing around to find out how to clean the pads and to see about how many pads I should get.



Weekendwarrior had this to say,

"I have done a few red, single stage cars, and typically to clean the pads, I spray Dawn power disolver on them, let them dwell for about 30 minutes, then work them under warm water with a tooth brush. I then toss them in the washer with Woolite, a small dash of APC, and wash them on the delicate cycle. Lastly, I let them dry on a wire rack. There is still going to be some color left on the pad after doing this, but they come out pretty clean."

Here:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/106145-ss-paint-what-look-out.html



From what I've found it seems the Dawn Power Dissolver is a popular cleaning product...

Any other recommendations, or is this the best method for removing oxidized paint from the pads?



And, I'm still looking for an answer to this question:

How many pads should I invest in and what should I look for to know when I need to change pads?



Thanks.
 
mr.ikon said:
Volvie. I still got almost a full bottle of Klasse AIO. If you're willing to drop by my place and give it a shot, you're more than welcome.
Click to expand...







Do yourself a favour and take up Mr.Ikons generous offer of a nearly full bottle of Kasse AIO,(you might get a few more tips when he's seen the car)I did red single stage paint last year that me and the owner both thought would need a respray (admittedly I did it with a Porter Cable RO)after I'd done it the car looked like it had always had lots of TLC rather than neglected like it had been (Years of washing up liquid washes),this is a really great product as already posted is a chemical cleaner not an abrasive so your 'thin' paint is going to be fine,I'd be weary of advice from a non specialist shop selling you cleaning products as they will just sell you as many products as possible,I bet most store employee's dont have much of a clue and just repeat the sales pitch from the manufacturers.



Any decent glaze (even OTC) would help restore some of the gloss and help rejuvenate the paintwork if your going down the carnuba route.(apply before the carnuba but after the Klasse AIO.)



Also the recommendations of Collinte 456s are spot on, I've tried just about every Carnuba wax you can think including some very expensive ones and for good looks with outstanding longevity you can't beat the Collinite,it would be perfect for your situation.:2thumbs:
 
volvie! said:
First, understand that your paint is getting thin and even

a mil thickness guage will only reference a current thickness. Not what the

vehicle had when new.
Click to expand...



I disagree with this statement he sent to you. Since you are not dealing with SS/CC paint it doesn't matter what the original film build was. You are not going to compromise the CC since you don't have any. So only the current film build matters. If you do want to know the original thickness then take some measurements in the door jambs and on the inside of the trunk. This will give you an idea of the original film build as those areas should not have weathered at all.



Here is my advice.

If you are working by hand and using OTC products I would recommend the following for SS paint.

Clay the car.

Meg's ColorX (for oxidation removal you will need something with some fine abrasives)

Meg's #7 (it will have no problem bonding to the ColorX and is amazing on SS paints. It will also fill in some of the remaining swirls that are left after ColorX)

Meg's NXT2.0 (two thin coats will make that brown look great and protect it for a long time!)



Working by hand you will not remove enough material to go through the paint. If ColorX by hand works its way through the paint then it was SO thin that you would have been there really soon anyway IMO. If you have enough thickness that you can use a machine then do the above steps with a PC. Your results will be much better and it will cut your time in 1/4 I would guess.



Make sure to post a C&B when you are done! Nothing looks better than nicely polished SS paint.
 
Volvie- I have extensive experience in the long-term maintenance of singe steage paint and I had a single stage 240 wagon that had suffered extreme neglect in the hands of the original owner (said 240 is still in the family; I gave it to my niece-in-law).



Note that all ss will oxidize if you expose it to much sunlight. Unless this is a garage queen you might as well accept that as a baseline. Removing the oxidation will involve removing some paint, it just always works out that way even with "chemical" paint cleaners.



If you do this long enough, sooner or later you run out of paint and hit primer but that's not quite as horrible as it sounds as the Volvo primer holds up pretty well if you keep it waxed. With any luck you'll be able to turn it into a pampered garage queen before that happens, but anyhow...





As noted, if a mild product cuts through, you were just that far down that road..don't worry about it now and don't stress if it happens later. Hey...it's a neglected ss car, this goes with the territory. Seriously, even if you hit primer you can still avoid the repaint for a long, long, time if you keep up with things, BTDT so this is first-hand experience ;)



As your oxidation is quite mild, I'd clay it after the wash but before any other steps.



AIO sometimes works great. Meg's Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner and Color-X are OK too. *I* would probably lean towards the DC #1 even though I do like AIO a lot.



Skip the Deep Crystal Step #2 Polish and use Meg's #7 (or preferably #5 or #81 as those are a *LOT* easier) for the second step if you want to do that (I wouldn't bother after the Color-X or the AIO but I would after the DC #1).



I'd wax with Collinite, either their 845 or their 476S. These protect better than most products and work fine on Volvo ss (they're what I used on mine, which was outside 24/7).



FWIW, *I* would polish it with 1Z brand Metallic Polish with Wax after using the Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner and I'd top with Collinite. (Note that I'm being very conservative due to the thin paint issue, but I wasn't *nearly* that conservative on mine and things still worked out fine...up until I finally had it repainted which was in the cards all along due to the original neglect).



Sources for 1Z and Collinite: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing . Note that Collinite is often available OTC at places like Harbor Freight. Autobody/paint supply stores will have a wide selection of products, especially from Meguiar's, so I'd shop there instead of at "regular" stores.



Yeah, the Dawn Power Dissolver is the best choice for cleaning pads and IMO it'll be obvious when you need to clean the pads. Don't expect them to come 100% clean by a long shot ;) You don't need many...they won't wear out they'll just need cleaned. Don't use too much product! Most people do and that loads up the pads something awful. Your 240 won't take even 1/3 of a bottle of anything, and a bottle of 845/can of 476S oughta last for many years.



BTW, I used Collinite 845 and even 476S on the rubber exterior trim of my 240 and it worked out great! Yeah, it looked crappy when it finally needed redone, but that wasn't for a long, long time (months). Most waxes/polishes need to be kept *off* such trim lest they leave terrible white stains, but some (like the Collinite and also AIO) work fine on it. Advantages over dressings include no running in the rain, better dirt-shedding, and better durability.



Good luck with this however you do it, and enjoy your 240. Nice to see somebody appreciating one. Heh heh, FWIW, I added a limited-slip differential, engine/transmission mods, and a seriously built up suspension to mine, and you can fit some pretty big tires on those factory steel wheels too :D It's fun to surprise people with an old 4 cylinder Volvo!



Oh, and check to make sure your floorpan isn't rusting ;) It's a kinda pricey fix if you want it done to show-quality standards and it's best to do it sooner rather than later if rust has taken hold. Ditto for the hole in the left "A" pillar where the little retainer for the radio antenna is; if rust starts there fix it ASAP.
 
Hi Everyone,



Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions! :thx



Accumulator-- Thanks for sharing your experiences with your 245! It really helps to hear what another Volvo owner did, as I assume that Volvo paints are more similar to each other than to other single stage automobile manufacturers' paints.



My 244 used to be a garage queen, but as of this moment, I have all of my school stuff in there and need to sort through it before she can become a garage queen again. That's part of the reason why I am doing so much research and am in no hurry to begin the oxidation-removal process. I hope to clear out and re-organize the garage over the next couple of months and when completed, I'll start working on my little starlet...



And, thanks for the tips about checking for rust-- I'll look into that.



---



I've also been re-reading through all the posts and am going to try to list all the different recommendations so that I can more easily research them. Here's what I have so far (in no particular order):



Meguiars ColorX

Cleaner wax = Clearkote Moose Wax

Long Lasting Paste Wax = Collinite 476s



Klasse All in One (Klasse AIO)

Glaze

Collinte 456s



Clay

Zymol HD Cleanse

Zymol Carbon Wax



Clay

Meg's ColorX

Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze

Meg's NXT2.0 (two thin coats)



Clay

Meg's Deep Crystal #1 Cleaner

Meg's #7 Show Car Glaze or (Easier: #5 New Car Glaze / #81 Body Shop Professional Hand Polish)

Collinite wax, either their 845 or 476S



Clay

Klasse AIO

Collinite wax, either their 845 or 476S



Clay

Meg's Deep Crystal #1 Cleaner

1Z (Einszett) brand Metallic Polish with Wax

Collinite wax, either their 845 or 476S



-Did I miss any?

-Any specific thoughts about the above combinations?

-Are there any specific glazes that work well with Klasse AIO, as recommended above in the second listing?

-Clay has been recommended by a few people-- Is there any type of clay that is better for single stage paints? As I mentioned in the first post, I do have some Turtle Wax Ice Liquid Clay Bar for our cars with clear coat-- would this be good for single stage or should I get a "real" clay kit?



Thanks again!

Take care.
 
volvie! said:
..I've also been re-reading through all the posts and am going to try to list all the different recommendations so that I can more easily research them. Here's what I have so far ..[lots of suggestions]..

-Any specific thoughts about the above combinations?

-Are there any specific glazes that work well with Klasse AIO, as recommended above in the second listing?

-Clay has been recommended by a few people-- Is there any type of clay that is better for single stage paints? As I mentioned in the first post, I do have some Turtle Wax Ice Liquid Clay Bar for our cars ...
Click to expand...



Of course I like *my* suggestions the best :D



Note that Zymol HD-Cleanse can be tough to use. Even people who like it say so, so you're forewarned.



Collinite will outlast NXT by a wide margin (IMO), and will last months longer than the Zymol Carbon (also just IMO).



If you want to use a glaze after AIO, get one that'll bond to the (minimal) stuff that AIO leaves behind (sorry, no suggestions as I don't/wouldn't do that).



I'd get either the Mother's claybar kit or some ClayMagic Blue instead of using the TW Ice Liquid myself.



I'd not delay too long the oxidation removal, it's not like the protective patina you can have with certain metals, but rather is a problem that worsens with time. Oxidized paint can retain moisture and lead to really serious trouble (as in major rust repairs followed by a repaint). Waxes/etc. will seal the paint's pores up so that won't happen, and deoxidizing will clean said pores/micro-fissures/etc. out so there's nothing damaging lurking in them. Seriously, do this sooner rather than later ;)



This thread reminds me that I need to check on "my" Volvo...haven't asked my niece-in-law about it for a while. FWIW she's using 1Z Metallic Polish topped with Collinite 845, but she has an easier time of it as I had it repainted with basecoat/clearcoat before I gave it to her.
 
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